Power bright inverter?

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CBHunter
CBHunter Solar Expert Posts: 39
Anyone has bought a power bright inverter? Are they good quality?
I'm thinking about buying the 6000 watts for my log cabin an activate my submersible well pump with it.

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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    i never heard of them, but with a electric motor it is best on a sine wave inverter.
    in reading on their website there isn't much contact info and they are showing one of them as a batteryless pv inverter and it has a limited input voltage range. pvs can go much higher in voltage than that inverter can take. my advice is it doesn't ring quite right for the company and who knows if the inverters are good or not? would they be around for honoring the warranty and they only have a local number for suich a variety of inverters being provided.
    care to toss the dice and let us know?
    here are some of the conflicting statements:[FONT=arial, helvetica]

    1.Potovoltaic power inverter converts low voltage direct solar or wind power to 110V alternating household currect (AC)

    2.Photovoltaic power inverter draws power either from solar panel, wind power generator or portable high power 12 volt sources
    [/FONT]

    3. [FONT=arial, helvetica]Bar Graph of Battery voltage and Output wattage display

    4.
    [/FONT]Low battery shutdown
  • CBHunter
    CBHunter Solar Expert Posts: 39
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    OK thanks for the advice, the guy who sells them around here has a good reputation, he is offering a 12 month warranty ( replacement ).
    I did purchase some stuff before and it was good quality. (Surette batteries, and Blue sky controller) everything works fine. Maybe I will give it a shot. If so, I will let you know, unfortunately this won't be before may, my cabin is in northern Quebec and there is still 4 feet of snow out there. I have to drive the last 10 miles with my snowmobile to get there. Not a good time to replace a pump and do some work.
    What brand would you recommand?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    Do you really need a 6kW inverter?

    Perhaps your existing uses can be changed to be more Renewable Energy friendly...

    To power my entire home (natural gas, no A/C)--I could easily live with an inverter 1/2 that size.

    My first guess is your pump? Large, seldom runs (perhaps a cistern and/or pressure tank), takes a lot to start, but only runs 15 minutes per day?

    I would suggest looking at a smaller pump (may run hours to fill a cistern at a few Gallons Per Minute) and/or a small 12/24 volt pump to pressurize your sink/shower needs.

    Large inverters tend to waste power at light loads. If you can get your maximum power needs down--you may be able to justify a TSW (True Sine Wave) Inverter... Much more expensive than MSW (Modified square/sine wave) inverter--but, overall, a TSW inverter will probably be more efficient and "nicer" to your appliances (AC square wave tends to cause motors to run 20%+ more power (hotter), and may cause wall wart transformers/converters to fail.

    Also MSW has been known to kill some cordless drill battery chargers... It is the old problem--probably 90% of your stuff will run OK--and 10% will be damaged/distroyed. Difficult to tell which will be part of the 10% a head of time.

    If you are left with a need to power the one big load/pump... You may choose to run that with a big and cheap MSW inverter--and you can power the balance of the loads with a much smaller TSW inverter.

    Lastly--what is your battery bank voltage? Typically, I try to recommend that people stay below ~100 amps on the battery bus--wires/fuses/breakers/etc. get bigger and much more expensive as their ratings go up (also, MPPT Solar Charge Controllers are rated at max current--so a 48 volt battery bank charge controller will be able to manage a 4x larger array vs a 12 volt battery bank--based on Power=Voltage*Current).

    For a 6kW load, you should be looking at a 48 volt battery bank.

    Your thoughts/questions?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CBHunter
    CBHunter Solar Expert Posts: 39
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    The reason why I was going with the 6kw was I wanted to make sure I would'nt need to add later on....
    Right now I have 8 Surette's S-530 for a 12v batterie bank. A solar boost 50 amps controller from Bluesky and 4x Solar world 175 watts panels. I use to run a Shurflo pump, the install wasn't made for winter. (Water line above frost line, pump install in a plywood box near the well) It's a mess to operate during winter.
    It can go down to -50c during winter here. So I decided to fix the problem once and for all. I'm having the waterline 60'' in the ground from the well to the cabin. I will install a 110vac submersible pump, and a pressure tank in the cabin. Just like my house! I do realize I may need to add solar panels....
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    The Surretts are 400 AH 6 volt batteries (20 hour rate)--if I got the right ones...

    8x batteries in series/parallel at 12 volts -- gives you a 12 volt bank at 1,600 AH.

    The current you would need to charge that bank should be around 5%-13% of the 20 hour rating (rough rule of thumb--always check mfg. specs. for exact requirements--15 volts would be typical maximum bank voltage--estimate solar panel wattage).

    1,600 AH * 5% = 80 Amps (or 15 volts * 80 amps = 1,200 watts)
    1,600 AH * 13% = 208 Amps (or 15 volts * 208 amps = 3,120 watts)

    So--on the battery side--you can probably use a lot more solar panels (actually, even 10-20% higher than I guestimated above would be fine too).

    Pumps in cabins in areas that get cold--I am not the expert there... Tony/Icarus and others here have much more experience than I...

    But I would humbly suggest that you look at other ideas to try and reduce the size of your well pump. Unless it is a huge cabin--you should be able to get along quite well on a much smaller system than it sounds like you are building.

    I know there are some neat tricks that people use to help prevent water pipe freezing in cold regions that use, for example, ground heat to keep the riser pipe from freezing (is it something like burying a 6"+ diameter vertical insulated plastic pipe into the ground with the water pipe in the middle--warm are rises from the below the frost line to warm the water pipe/etc.???).

    Anyway, it sounds like you still have some time to plan. There are some nice pumps that run on AC and DC or for solar RE systems that don't have the high starting/surge requirements. The Grundfos submersible pumps probably represent the high-end capabilities of these designs.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    that 80a requirement is a problem when the sb50 controller is maxed at 50a or 50/1600=3.125%. i have advised some that this could work if no loads are being drawn upon the system until the battery bank gets charged and you can wait the needed number of days it would require to reach a full charge as this will be minimally for a battery bank at 50% dod 100/3.125 x 50%=16hours of full controller maxed output. another pv may put you close to that 50a point and near the controller's max during full sun.
    it is possible to parallel another controller with more pvs if need be and more current is needed imo, but i'd suggest you get something to put some of the bulk charge needed back in for those extended cloudy times such as a battery charger, be it an automotive charger or not minimally, but more ideally a charger with at least 2 stages of charge and with 3 and 4 stages being much better. remember that the longer a battery sits without a good charge on it, the more likely sulphation will set in. also. if you wish to stay with that sb50, then get the battery temp sensor for it and activate the cc to operate with it. if you parallel another sb50 another bt sensor will be needed for it. in any case a battery temp sensor should be used no matter what cc you employ.
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    Hello. I am new to all of this and I saw this article. Does anyone in here know if this works and the actual savings I could be looking at? I am livid at the increasing costs to my home virl dot ws/djfunkyslick/Energy
    I would appreciate any feedback from those who know more!

    CC

    [mod edit: break link to scam/MLM site--Bill B.]
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    CC,

    I will bite and assume that you are not posting a link to the Multi-Level-Marketing site Earth 4 Energy on purpose...

    You can read about it here on our "Scam" Thread and other places... Just use the Search function and look for "earth4energy"...

    At best, a waste of money... At worse, may burn down your home if you follow directions (read entire thread).

    Panel Fire Question

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    cbhunter,
    in a recent qst (april 09 ham magazine) they have shown a lab test of the powerbright pw2300-12-1 (2300w cont.).
    in general the modsine ac output waveform was notably dirtier than other modsine inverters that were tested, one of which was a xantrex xpower 1750 plus (1500w cont.). a dirtier waveform means more of a possible interference with stuff around your home and possibly not being usable on some things sensitive to a high thd %. i will only site a few items of note here.
    powerbright observations:
    measured input current, no load-.24a
    49w load.......120.2vac output......65.3% efficiency
    564w load....126.4vac output......81.0% efficiency (highest listed ac volts)
    1138w load..113.6vac output.....86.8% efficiency (best listed eff. achieved)
    2010w load..107.0vac output.....84.2% efficiency

    note the xantrex was listed as measured .77a input no load. it was 73% efficiency at 46w load with a best eff. at 1538w of 85.7%.
    xantrex ac voltage ranged from 110.3vac-117.3vac and was more random for various loads, but a tighter tolerance at +/-5%. the powerbright was listed as +/-10%.
    both were 12v inverters. both were similarly priced with the powerbright being $20 more at list.
  • CBHunter
    CBHunter Solar Expert Posts: 39
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    Thanks very much for your info Niel!
    When you say that the sinewave is dirtier, can you gave me example of appliances that I could have trouble to operate?
    Would it be a problem for a submersible well pump?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,479 admin
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    Here are a couple FAQ's from our host's store:

    All About Inverters
    Information about what inverters are and do

    Choosing an inverter for water pumping
    Article by Windy Dankoff/Home Power magazine on selecting and using inverters for various pumps and motors.

    The short answer--if you will be depending on the inverter and/or the device that is powers for life and death... Go with TSW (True Sine Wave).

    If you can survive if the inverter or device fails--a MSW (Modified Square/Sine Wave) inverter will probably work OK some 80-90% of the time (powered devices may have a shorter service life). The problem is finding the 10-20% of those devices that will fail--Some are well known (wall warts and cheap tool battery rechargers). Others, don't know--and not all MSW's are equal...

    A few folks have worked out their cash flow issues by purchasing a small TSW inverter for inside the house/cabin, and a large MSW inverter to run the well pump.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    btw, that was not an endorsement for the xantrex modsine inverter either as it is dirty too as many of these types of inverters are. there are some exceptions, of course, and you basically get what you're paying for.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Power bright inverter?
    CBHunter wrote: »
    The reason why I was going with the 6kw was I wanted to make sure I would'nt need to add later on....
    Right now I have 8 Surette's S-530 for a 12v batterie bank. A solar boost 50 amps controller from Bluesky and 4x Solar world 175 watts panels. I use to run a Shurflo pump, the install wasn't made for winter. (Water line above frost line, pump install in a plywood box near the well) It's a mess to operate during winter.
    It can go down to -50c during winter here. So I decided to fix the problem once and for all. I'm having the waterline 60'' in the ground from the well to the cabin. I will install a 110vac submersible pump, and a pressure tank in the cabin. Just like my house! I do realize I may need to add solar panels....

    In response to a question that wasn't asked,,,,but my name was mentioned,,,

    If you do a search in the water pumping section, there is an extensive thread on pumping water out of very cold sources, through very cold pipes, and ways and means to keep them from freezing.

    My case in point is,,, and I won't reinvent the wheel here,, do the search if you are interested, we have an off grid house,, (cabin to most folks" in far northern Ontario,, winter temps -40-50 is quite common. I have a simple, shurflo submersible, running on 24vdc pumping into a conventional P-tank. I have this system set up to auto drain back into the lake when the pump shuts off, using a simple automatic underground sprinkler drain valve (~$3.00), and a solenoid valve that opens to let air in so it will drain.

    We are on the Canadian shield on an island, have only bedrock to run the water line over. There is now way to bury it. The water line itself is insulated to R-20 with arctic foam, and then cased in 6" drain tile to protect the whole thing from moving ice. I do have some heat line submersible heat tape on the outside of the line, so that when I go away for a few days or weeks I can thaw the line quickly. (I was just away for 2 months and returned at -28F and thawed the line in 20 minutes!) That has been the only time I have ever needed the heat tape. The pump pipe is 3/4" PEX and will take repeated freezing without damage.

    The whole thing was reasonably priced, and has been very reliable. My only real concern is if the pump fails mid winter, I am SOL as it is in 30' of water under 4' of ice. It will be back to hauling water in buckets then.

    We power it with a very small solar system,

    Tony
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    I would not trust the ratings on that inverter at all. For example

    If the inverter and the battery are positioned within four feet of each other, a minimum
    of # 4 gauge wire should be used to make the connections


    6000 watts at 12 volts = 500 amps, which is about 5x the max amperage rating for #4 wire.
  • CBHunter
    CBHunter Solar Expert Posts: 39
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    Re: Power bright inverter?

    Tony, I did do the research and found your explanation on how you manage your water supply. I think it is very clever considering the fact that you could'nt burry your waterline. I may be using a 24vdc submersible pump myself. However I will have the line 60 inches in the ground to make sure it is protected from frost. It should'nt cost much to do that work. Thanks for your help!
    I appreciate this forum i learn every day!