Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

ramesco

Hi! I will appreciate any help with my off-grid project. (Comments, advises, recommendations, etc.) I have read a lot in this forum! But I´m needing help.
I want to build an off-grid kitchen.

Facts:

1. I already buy a fridge/freezer that works with a DC operation (12/24 volt). This one, the 82 qt model, is able to maintain sub-freezing temperatures in 90° f heat, while only drawing an intermittent 1.35 amps per hour from a 12 volt power source. http://store.arbusa.com/ARB-Fridge-Freezer-82Qt-10800782-P21329.aspx
Fabricant recommends that a dedicated wiring circuit be installed to power the fridge freezer. This circuit should be as short as possible and be connected directly to the power supply via a 15 Amp fuse. For cable lengths up to 6m, ARB recommends a minimum cable diameter of 6 mm. NOTE – If the plug is removed and the fridge freezer is hard wired into a 12V or 24V DC circuit , a 15 Amp inline fuse must be included in the circuit.

2. I already buy this blender https://www.vitamix.com/Commercial/Products/Beverage-Blenders/The-Quiet-One , I really need this one (so please don´t say that use a different one). This one comes with a 3 peak output horsepower motor: 120 V, 50/60 Hz, 15.0 A

3. I already buy this microwave Whirlpool WMC20005YD 0.5 Cu. Ft. Stainless Look Countertop Microwave. (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GSZB7I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
It´s a 750W microwave but it can be used at different cooking levels, I´m planning to use it in the lowest always, that is at 25% Power Low, 160W

PERCENT/NAME USE
100%, High (default setting) (700W)
75%, Medium-High (500W)
50%, Medium (350W)
25%, Low, Defrost (160W) Defrosting bread, fish, meats, poultry and precooked foods. Softening butter, cheese, and ice cream. Taking chill out of fruit.
0%, No power

Possible Solar System:

PV panels (400W total: 4 Panels x 100W, 5.62A, 17.8V)
• 1 x 200W Flexible Mono Crystalline Solar Kit:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HSM39TW/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1SMYSS2KB7SPG
• 2 x 100W Flexible Mono Crystalline Solar Expansion Kit:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HSO8OSG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1SMYSS2KB7SPG

Inverter: Outback Vented 2800W 12V DC (marine series)
• http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MWC40I/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A21D8415B0SCJI

Charge Controller:
I´m deciding between
• the Morningstar TS-MPPT-45 TriStar 45 Amp Charge Controller 12-48V
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007NMUM2E/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2D8JQWPPKDGTT)
Or
• The Outback FM60 Charge Controller
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004TO3CZ8/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A21D8415B0SCJI)

QUESTIONS:

1. About the fridge/ freezer, is better to run it at 12V or 24V? There is any difference regarding energy consumption, cooling efficiency, device safety? ( I´m thinking to use a 12V battery bank, but i didn´t know if would be better a 24V one)

2. What is your opinion about the Go Power! Flexible Mono Crystalline Solar Panels, or the company, anything??

3. Which charge controller is better in this case? I have heard that the Morningstar TS-MPPT-45 TriStar 45 Amp Charge Controller 12-48V is more efficient…

4. I´m trying to calculate the battery bank size. It´s just I don’t know the amount of energy that I´m going to use. I want to use it every day.

I guess it´s going to be something like this:

Arb fridge/freezer 1 x 16 Hr/day
LED Bulbs 3 x 5 Hr/day
Venting fans (12V) 2 x 16 Hr/day
Vitamix Quiet One Blender 1 x 2 Hr/day
Microwave 1 x 1 Hr/day
Water pump 12V 1 x 16 Hr/day

(Thanks for take the time, my life kind of depends on this!)

Cariboocoot

Re: Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

Welcome to the forum.

If at all possible avoid a 12 Volt system. The reason why is tied to the company warning about wire lengths & sizes. Basic discussion on picking system Voltage: http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?15989-Battery-System-Voltages-and-equivalent-power

I've never seen any of those panels. Any particular reason why you'd want to use them? When it comes to PV price per Watt is the first consideration, and only overruled when there is a pressing need for other specs such as smaller footprint. 200 Watts is unlikely to do the job.

Morningstar MPPT controllers are out-of-date technology. They have some advantages, but unless you need those they aren't even a good deal anymore. TriStar 45 is $410 without display. Outback FM60 is $499 with a display. Ultimate the controller picked will depend on the battery bank and array size.

You need usage numbers to plan from. Otherwise you're guessing with a 2/3 chance of being wrong. Not good odds. I'd suggest a Kill-A-Watt meter; buy one and the 120 VAC equipment you want to run. Do some real-world use trial runs and get at least some idea how much power will be consumed. Your kitchen will have some big variables anyway as you don't cook everything the same every day. At least I hope not!

Don't bet on that microwave using the power it says: that is cooking power, not what it draws from the outlet. The magnatron will suck down just as much at 25% as at 100%, only it is broken up in momentary cycles (ON/OFF). When energized it will probably pull over 1kW as every microwave I've ever tested does, including my '600W' unit I use at the cabin.

To get some idea of where you're headed:
To power 1000 Watts of load on 24 Volts takes about 42 Amps. At a maximum of 25% draw from batteries that requires 168 Amp hours just to handle the demand, never mind Watt hour consumption.
You would probably do quite well with a system similar to mine, perhaps a tad smaller. Do you have a generator available for when the sun does not co-operate?

ramesco

Re: Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks Cariboocoot! And thanks also for the quick answer!

Ok so now I know that it´s going to be a battery bank of 24V, I´m making some progress here!

The reason to use those panel is because this 100% off-grid kitchen, its more like a Solar Powered Food Truck, and I don’t want heavy, rigid panels on the roof, please look http://youtu.be/wNAHAtaoHpE)

So you prefer the The Outback FM60 Charge Controller instead de Morning Star TriStar 45? Both are about same price with the display, I guess it´s better the Outback because have more capacity, but maybe there are more efficiency losses (I don’t know really).

I’m going to digest all this new info and do more research, to get idea how much power will be consumed... I think that tomorrow I´m going to buy that Kill-A-Watt meter.
I don’t have a generator. The size of this RV, food truck, kitchen or whatever is very small, so I guess there is no wiring issues, or there are some??

(Thanks again)

Cariboocoot

Re: Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

There are always wiring issues. It's just a question of what kind.

With a food truck application you will have space limitations for panels. This may be a significant problem. Any place to plug in at night when the day is done?

waynefromnscanada

Re: Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

Did some checking on your proposed fridge. It's 12 volt consumption ranges (depending on ambient temperature) between .7 Amp X 24 hours = 16.8 AH, all the way up to
2.3 A X 24 hours = 55.2 AH. That works out to between 200 watt hours, to as much as 660 Watt hours. An average of 400 watt hours! Guess what my 8 Cu Ft (over 239 QT American, against your 88 QT) Freezer converted to fridge uses - - - an average of 240 watt hours for every 24 hour day!
A red flag went up when I read the specs you listed, stated an intermittent consumption of 1.35 amps, yet the device demanded a 15 amp fuse. AND the statement it uses less than a car headlight. In other words, less than 60 watts. Pretty much an energy pig.

ramesco

Re: Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

waynefromnscanada wrote: »

Did some checking on your proposed fridge. It's 12 volt consumption ranges (depending on ambient temperature) between .7 Amp X 24 hours = 16.8 AH, all the way up to
2.3 A X 24 hours = 55.2 AH. That works out to between 200 watt hours, to as much as 660 Watt hours. An average of 400 watt hours! Guess what my 8 Cu Ft (over 239 QT American, against your 88 QT) Freezer converted to fridge uses - - - an average of 240 watt hours for every 24 hour day!
A red flag went up when I read the specs you listed, stated an intermittent consumption of 1.35 amps, yet the device demanded a 15 amp fuse. AND the statement it uses less than a car headlight. In other words, less than 60 watts. Pretty much an energy pig.

Thanks a lot Wayne for your time and answer,
I already buy this fridge/freezer. I didn´t understand you the red flag part, sorry about that, Can you please explain it to me again? I spend a lot of money on that fridge/frezzer… do you think it’s a good device? I don’t get the term “energy pig”. I guess that what you are saying its that your freezer its better than mine by far, right??, It´s pretty small in capacity and a lot of energy consuption?? Thanks

(sorry about my bad english)

Rossman

Re: Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

Pigs eat a lot, so, an "energy pig" is something using more than average amount of energy (or at least, not very efficient).

ramesco

Re: Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

Rossman wrote: »

Pigs eat a lot, so, an "energy pig" is something using more than average amount of energy (or at least, not very efficient).

Thanks a lot Rossman, I get it better now!

It´s a little bit sad because I did some research, I spend some bucks there..(
That’s why I am now trying to get the right advices before spend more money

Do you think it is possible to set up those items that I already buy (the ARB 400-660W fridge/freezer, the vitatmix 1600-1800W blender, and that 750W whirlpool microwave oven, LED Bulbs, Venting fans and Water pump) to a very compact 100% off-grid design?

??? Will be enough with:

400W PV: (x4) 100W Flexible Mono Crystalline Panels 5.62A, 17.8V each, - Charge Controller: Outback FM60, - Inverter: Outback VFX3524M Sine Wave Inverter 3500W 24VDC, - Battery Bank:??
(I guess it depends on the amp/hr of the battery bank, right? How many batteries do I need?)

The use of the devices it´s going to be something like this:

Arb fridge/freezer 400-660W (x1) 16 Hr/day
LED Bulbs 10W (x3) 5 Hr/day
Venting fans (12V) (x2) 16 Hr/day
Vitamix Quiet One Blender 1600-1800W (x1) 2 Hr/day
Microwave 750W (x1) 1 Hr/day
Water pump 12V (x1) 16 Hr/day

Thanks In advance to anyone that hepls me to solve this!

zoneblue

Re: Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

For the controller check out the midnite kid. Perfect for 400W PV.

Those panels are light sure, but heck, 8 times the price of std panels? There are other brands of flexible panels and i suggest shopping round some might turn up a better deal.

waynefromnscanada

Re: Off Grid Kitchen Project, Plese Help!!

ramesco wrote: »

I didn't understand you the red flag part, Thanks

Ah, sorry about that. We sometimes forget that many people are not from English speaking countries.
When we see or read something that appears wrong, we sometimes "flag it" or mention a red flag, "a red flag went up". Similar to waving a red flag to warn people in a motorcycle race that there is danger ahead .