Your opinion of these batteries please?

PNjunction

Blitz wrote: »

I recently acquired 6 "DataSafe" 12HX-300-FR batteries, that were kept in a telecom environment, and under constant float charge 13.6 v. They are all hot, in pretty good shape, and since I have had them I have been charging them with a xantrex tru charge 40.

You'll kind of be on your own, since they are NOT intended for anything but a float charge. Their installation and application manual says that you can fast-recharge them maybe 4-5 times a year with the typical agm charging voltage of 14.4v. Otherwise, the typical float-charge all the way to 13.8v or so is it.

Those are actually Enersys agm's, but intended mainly for float/backup. See the installation and maintenance manual:
http://www.enersys.com/DataSafe_HX_Batteries.aspx

If this was doing backup duty, and actually did 4-5 fast charges to prepare for the next outage rapidly, you may have very little life left. That means you got to be the free recycler for them.

Hopefully you'll have some fun, but just beware of the severe limitation. If your tru-charge was set for agm (which I personally think is too low for that charger - only 14.3v agm) and you have been doing a few cycles with it already, you may have burned through what's left already.

So just keep that in mind if your solar project seems to go awry - don't immediately blame your other gear when the battery is just not really suited for cyclic RE applications.

Blitz

Thanks Guys...
I know they are the weak link. ( the Enersys HX series batteries)
I have the data sheet here and have studied them for a while now.

The Freedom 458 shuts down at 10.5 volts....
I dont think there is much I can do about that....
And I've read the manual several times, and have the remote panel as well...

Just kinda stuck with what I got for now...

I do have the Freedom 458 set to AGM....

And the TRU Charge only has a GEL or WET setting , with three temperature settings.


I might as well burn through them


I can trade them back in to my recycle Guy, probably for their weight... with no worries about reserve capacity left over.

Occasionally he has Trojans.... But they are rare.

Often he has the HUGE Glass Jar Batteries, at 2 volts each and 600 lbs per battery ...lol

I will find something by years end to upgrade to....
But in the mean time.... I'm really happy with the cables, anderson connectors, junction blocks, the battery box ( on wheels )... etc...


I keep having one thought though... that is bugging me....


With 6 of these batteries all connected together... equal length cables... going to a junction block ( 6- 2/0 into the bottom of the block, and 2 - 4/0 out the top .... each POS and NEG )
for a total of 16 connections.... ( if you can visualize that )


I'm worrying myself about the Anderson SB 350 connectors now....
Possibly "Arcing" when I pull them apart....
( Like the 4/0 connection between my inverter and the interconnected batteries )

Is that a possibility, or am I over thinking this?

Will DC jump that space between the contacts in the Anderson 350's ( 4/0 ) and just keep going?


I know.... Pictures will help...

been a long weekend.


Thanks for the advice.

any possibility of those anderson connectors arcing when pulled apart.. and staying arced? Like a run a way ?

MarkC

I use Anderson SB50s to interconnect my spare set of 4 - 155 AH 12V Trojans (48V system) to my set of 4-Interstates in my golf cart.  Both sets are typically fully charged when connected and under those conditions there is no evidence of any arcing/noise.  There have been occasions where the golf cart batteries are partially discharged and even under those conditions, no evidence of any arcing.  I'd not try it when one set is fully discharged! Also, all this disconnecting,connecting has been done under no load on the inverters.

Blitz

Thanks Mark.
So far there have been no issues.
Using the Sb 50's 175's and 350's.
Occasionally, they are hard to pull apart... because the contact that slides into the sb 50 housings, wasnt crimped perfectly "straight"... onto the wire....so the contact is a little tough to pull apart on two of them.

I have not disconnected anything under any loads...

The Sb 350's are carrying 400 amps on 4/0... so i'm being really aware of that.

Everything is fused... But the arcing question.... upon disconnect is a fading concern.
Looks like Anderson designed those housings and contacts with this in mind.


Love those things... Even ordered covers for them. Already had about 16 handles and mounting hardware..

Great Great Product line.
Really a nice assortment of products and accessories.

Keeps My 24 volt and 12 volt circuits separate also, and goof proof.

I should have invested in their company.

Thank You for the Reply Mark.

I will remain cautious...

MarkC

Likewise - I think they are great - have not bought any Chinese look-alikes although they may be fine??  I have a "Prius" system with Anderson's in up to 245 volts DC.  In this case,however, I do have a real disconnect/fuse box to be used after all connections are made.  The APC UPS inverter (heart of the system) on the other hand has been connected and disconnected many times on both the 96 and 192 volt Anderson connectors.  Some times a very slight arc sound at most.  Again, no output load conditions.

I must admit to one incident that truly tested the connector.  I carelessly cross-wired the main disconnect +/- and upon connecting the UPS, it blew the DC section fuse in the UPS.  The Anderson "popped", but the real action was in the UPS!  The moral is to not only check/recheck connections, but also carefully check the expected match up of DC polarity voltages with a meter before making the final connections under voltages - regardless of how careful you are in wiring (and always wear voltage rated gloves).   Still no guarantees, but what would life be on the couch?

APC uses proprietary Andersons of specific colors for voltage levels, which makes it improbable to mix voltages.  However, any "standard" Andersons that I use match that color scheme (which I believe is the Anderson color scheme also).

BTW, I'm considering some used (inexpensive) EnerSys PowerSafe 12vx100f batteries for solar use.  How have the HX batteries worked out?

Mark

Blitz

I have to admit, the EnerSys batteries have been great for me.
I got them used, as fresh pulls from a telecom "yearly upgrade", where they just pull the batteries and replace them ... no matter what they read.
I'm sure they stayed on the proper float for the year they were installed, and probably were only cycled a few times.

I have been babying them... equally charging them, discharging them, and balancing them as best as possible.
I dont have the numbers here handy, but i think they are within (.)5 volts of each other, in the bank.

I have had them all disconnected for about 3 days now... resting individually... and I'm about to lift them out of the portable box and drill a few drain holes in the bottom for "future necessity" ( outside use ).

When I lift them out, I will load test each one to remove any surface charge, and then give them the voltmeter test again.

From this thread and listening to the Good People here, I understand that they are not the best for deep cycling and long run times.

When i upgrade, I have decided to go wet cell, in 12 volts and probably the Trojans.

I just want to be able to check the individual cells, and have some deeper discharge ability.

If you can get the batteries cheap... like I did....
I would say go for it.

If You have to pay full retail.... Its probably best to go with a wet cell type battery for the long term and deep discharge.


I like that they cant spill... I like that there is no vapor or fumes... i like that I have had these for YEARS now, and they are still holding up with "hobby level" use.
( truecharge 40 dual bank ( old style ), and Freedom 458 100 amp charger, and each battery occasionally gets a Solar top off charge for a few days, just to squeeze in more slow volts.

I have noticed a few of the cases have slight swelling near the top of the sides...
I guess that can be expected after years of use and just "gravity".


I hope that gives some insight on the EnerSys batteries.

They are great for wht i paid for them, and how i use them.

Now I have more invested in cable, contacts , fuses and connectors than i do in the batteries themselves...

So I think I'm gonna move on to the next level when its time to upgrade, or I run into another good deal on USED Trojans, and go wet cell.


As for the anderson connectors....

I have three or four "knock offs" made by SMH ? Sb-50's and a few sb 350's.
They seem to fit the Andersons well... I cant see any problems with them at all.
But I have them stored as spares now... just so everything would match.
there might be some difference in the quality of the plastic, and the amp heat rating.... But I am not for sure about that.

If you find them cheap.. I dont think I would hesitate to go "off brand" .. for the housings.

Now the contacts themsleves.......

I would stick with the anderson contacts.

I bet a Chinese company would 'cheap out' on material and silver in the contacts.
Anderson really did their homework, and I bet their contacts are much higher quality than knock offs.

I'm still a major newbie at this stuff... but that's just what i have personally observed with the enersys batteries and anderson connectors.

This Box needs bigger wheels.

Rolls fine on concrete....

Not over dirt !!  ( wayy to heavy ).
Gonna upgrade to some 'inflatable' wheels/tires ....probably about 10 inches in height, so I can move it about the property "alone".

its just been a fun thing to design and build.
took me YEARS to get it all together.. a little at a time.

MarkC

Blitz;
I do have experience with the Interstate FLA's (12V, 150AH-20hr) golf cart batteries.  Going on 5 years of some rough treatment in my golf cart (one complete discharge episode by my Grandson and meltdown of one terminal - repaired easily). By all metrics they are doing great - KOW.  I have a spare set of similar Trojans ($175 each locally - no shipping and traded a slew of old AGMs for core).  I hope, when needed, they will give similar great service or better.  I use the OEM smart charger and a Granite 48V "trickle" type when the GC is stored for a couple of weeks.  I do "exercise" the Trojans by testing my off grid set up every couple of months. 

I'm considering the EnerSys's for more testing for a small RV type set up with the batteries stored inside.  Please keep me updated.

Blitz

I will Mark.

I DO like the EnerSys batteries.
I would not hesitate to get more of them at the right price, and right age , matched, in the right quantity and from the same install.
Luckily, the history of most of the batteries I have owned, was known to me 'second hand'... by honest word of mouth at point of purchase.

My setup is very similar to an RV setup, just expanded a bit.
In a rolling box, and not anchored to a vehicle.

From listening here... it seems that most Guys here go with smaller inverters and multiples of them to spread their load out and for efficiency.

that makes a lot of sense the older I get.

In that scenario, I can see using the HX100 batteries in multiple "completed assemblies", each with their own inverter.
I like portable.
A lot of times I need to run things in several different places at the same time and distances of 200 to 1600 feet apart.

I have designed some smaller systems for 12 volt and 110 volt water pumps, LED work lights, security/ game cameras,  dremmel tools, a shortwave etc... but I strung several 7 AH 12 volt batteries together to do that ( in "packs"). Then i matched the smaller inverters that i already had to the loads I need to run.
I put those on 2 wheel dollys... so I can roll them around and be "free to move about the Country " with everything needed on the dollys.

I can see having those Hx 100's would be really nice to use in those situations.
I like portable. I like compartmentalizing. I like that weight factor they have. (21 lbs ? ) vs the 60 I deal with now.


If someone just gave me the money though....

I would look hard at the L-16's and the Surrette's  ( non RE style ), and have the ability to go serious, and manage/ test each cell.. and get deeper discharge rates for the long term.

Now that I'm seriously looking at Solar recharging, and using a bank...
I can see that this is a lifelong investment and is not not not cheap.

Might as well bite the bullet and design for 50 years ( not counting expendables or immersion in Salt water environments)
research, take a lot of time and shop "smart"... not fast.

The panels and charge controllers are gonna be a lot more than what i have already invested "over a decade"...
So I built everything to last.. and its all upgradable.

I will seriously be considering the wet cells when I have another grand or more to invest at once.


I cant see the Lio technology being a "good match"  for me in the next few years.

Anyway...
enjoyed the chat Mark.

Thanks for meshing some gears back into 'forward' mode for Me.


none of this is cheap or easy or fast.