Going semi-off grid

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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #32
    Re: Going semi-off grid
    BB. wrote: »
    Pick your numbers and the model that makes sense to you. And then your kids kill the bank when they visit for the summer.

    Just to be clear... you're NOT referring to the Midnite Kids, or the neighbor's young goats. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • drraptor
    drraptor Solar Expert Posts: 218 ✭✭
    #33
    Re: Going semi-off grid
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Well if you're talking AGM vs. FLA (it is possible to have FLA that's valve regulated) the FLA will outlast the AGM. They are very tolerant batteries.

    The thing is the AGM's other qualities (no gassing, safe transport, higher current) makes the two not exactly 100% interchangeable.

    If you mean strictly sealed FLA vs. non-sealed it would be a pretty close tie for lifespan with possible extra time on the sealed battery as there would be less environment-induce acid loss. But again the open batteries are more forgiving of mistakes.
    What if both the FLA (non VRLA) and AGMs are well maintained ? acid-loss will be balanced by proper watering ?
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #34
    Re: Going semi-off grid
    drraptor wrote: »
    What if both the FLA (non VRLA) and AGMs are well maintained ? acid-loss will be balanced by proper watering?

    First of all, acid is not what is usually lost by charging a battery above its the gassing voltage... water is lost. If you 'boil' the flooded batteries hard enough, some acid mist will come out of the batteries.

    You cannot add water to AGM batteries. Disclaimer: there are some folks who have tried it with varying success. If an AGM battery has lost its water, it has been abused. They are very sensitive to over-voltage which is what drives the water out of them.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • drraptor
    drraptor Solar Expert Posts: 218 ✭✭
    #35
    Re: Going semi-off grid
    vtmaps wrote: »
    First of all, acid is not what is usually lost by charging a battery above its the gassing voltage... water is lost. If you 'boil' the flooded batteries hard enough, some acid mist will come out of the batteries.

    You cannot add water to AGM batteries. Disclaimer: there are some folks who have tried it with varying success. If an AGM battery has lost its water, it has been abused. They are very sensitive to over-voltage which is what drives the water out of them.

    --vtMaps


    That is pretty clear already.
    by well maintained I meant following the Instruction manual religiously.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #36
    Re: Going semi-off grid
    drraptor wrote: »
    That is pretty clear already.
    by well maintained I meant following the Instruction manual religiously.

    Best-case scenario for both: AGM's still have shorter lifespan. The premium price is to gain the AGM qualities that the FLA's do not have. If you do not have those needs, don't spend the money.

    BTW this lifespan comparison is based on manufacturer's claims, not real-world usage. That gets a bit dodgy in comparison as it is easier to damage and AGM and shorten its life even though it appears to still be working.
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  • drraptor
    drraptor Solar Expert Posts: 218 ✭✭
    #37
    Re: Going semi-off grid

    which batteries you guys use ? what is the average life of a battery set in your experience. which set of the batteries lasted the longest. :-)
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #38
    Re: Going semi-off grid

    I prefer flooded cells because they are less expensive and easier to keep an eye on (hydrometer reading of SG).

    As for brands, good ones for me have been Trojan (pricey), Crown, and East Penn/Deka/US Battery (all the same - different labels). Right now I've got East Penn's and they're five years old and still make 1.275 SG on all cells. I was still using a couple of Trojan T105's after eight years, and they had been hard used too.

    Two brands I would not buy or recommend owing to bad experiences (both mine and others'): Interstate and Surrette/Rolls.

    Other people's experiences and preferences will vary.
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  • drraptor
    drraptor Solar Expert Posts: 218 ✭✭
    #39
    Re: Going semi-off grid
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    I prefer flooded cells because they are less expensive and easier to keep an eye on (hydrometer reading of SG).

    As for brands, good ones for me have been Trojan (pricey), Crown, and East Penn/Deka/US Battery (all the same - different labels). Right now I've got East Penn's and they're five years old and still make 1.275 SG on all cells. I was still using a couple of Trojan T105's after eight years, and they had been hard used too.

    Two brands I would not buy or recommend owing to bad experiences (both mine and others'): Interstate and Surrette/Rolls.

    Other people's experiences and preferences will vary.
    your system is 24V 232Ah. which model ? their deka solar line has every good cycle life 3700cylce @ 25DOD http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0919a.pdf
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #40
    Re: Going semi-off grid
    drraptor wrote: »
    your system is 24V 232Ah. which model ? their deka solar line has every good cycle life 3700cylce @ 25DOD http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0919a.pdf

    Not those. I'm not made of money. :D

    East Penn PS2200: http://www.eastpenncanada.com/brochures/English/solar/S102_Solar_Flooded_Batteries.pdf
    Only 1150 cycle rating @ 20% DOD - but that is to 21 Volts on a 24 Volt system and 75 Amp draw. I do not take mine below 24 Volts and the draw is rarely that high (momentary daily pump start-up). They also get Winter off. :D

    Since they already have over 900 cycles on them and still reach full SG rating with no sign of capacity loss, they're doing good.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #41
    Re: Going semi-off grid
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    East Penn/Deka/US Battery (all the same - different labels).
    <snip>
    Two brands I would not buy or recommend owing to bad experiences (both mine and others'): Interstate and Surrette/Rolls.

    The L-16 Interstate batteries are made by US Battery. Until about 4 years ago, US Battery also made the Interstate GC batteries. I believe that Johnson Controls now makes the Interstate GC batteries.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #42
    Re: Going semi-off grid
    vtmaps wrote: »
    The L-16 Interstate batteries are made by US Battery. Until about 4 years ago, US Battery also made the Interstate GC batteries. I believe that Johnson Controls now makes the Interstate GC batteries.

    --vtMaps

    This is in fact one of the problems: unless it is branded by the actual manufacturer you don't really know who made it. There's a thread about that in the reference section, but the info is out of date and no doubt no longer accurate.

    Still, the end result is that if a retailer markets low-quality batteries they get hurt in repeat sales. How much effort they put in to quality assurance is important. Some base their buying on a bland set of specs and a demand for low price. Others are a bit more choosey about how they are viewed by the public.

    How do you tell the difference? That's a very good question.
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