Lots of questions about going off grid...

jcheil

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

Catscratch wrote: »

I'm curious about what the last two posts are talking about. Could you guys give me some more information or maybe a web-site that explains it a little better? I asked about a substation and they said they don't do that for residential, only oil and larger business.

Ok, the electric company would not do anything different or have to spend any additional money.

Imagine it this way. "If" your house was at the edge of your property where the existing power poles are, then they would simply connect from their existing poles to your "house". Simple, cheap, no extra $. Then, lets say you wanted to put a barn at the other end of your property. You "yourself" would run a wire from your "house" to the barn. That's "your" wire. The electric company doesn't care about it or even know about it.

So, in your case, you just "swap" things around. You put a "shed/barn" at the edge of your property where the existing electric is. The electric company puts in a 200/320a service to that shed/barn. Then you run your "own" wires to your "house" on the other side of the property. You would want a transformer at the shed end to kick the voltage up to a much higher voltage (480 or more), and then another one at your house to drop it back down to 240v. That way you can run MUCH smaller (cheaper) wires from the "power-shed/barn" to the "house".

It's very doable. And legal. Just need to get it engineered properly.

Catscratch wrote: »

As far as the meeting went, the guy didn't have many answers about cost but I did find out they would possibly release us to join the other power company (we are only about 100ft from the boundary between the two territories and the other company said about $7000 to run .5 mile and connect us).

That's a no-brainer, go with the other company. $7k is a drop in the bucket compared to what you are going to have to spend to get off-grid.

Catscratch

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

Ok, I gotcha: Have them install a transformer at their cost (which they pay the first $16,000 up front, we are responsible for the rest) near their existing line, buy my own step-up transformer and up the voltage for the run, then have my own step-down transformer at the house. So where do I shop for appropriate sized transformers? I did a quick google search and I don't think I'm looking at the right sized stuff... Are you guys familiar with manufacturers or suppliers that I can do some price checking at?

As far as energy consumption; we have done a lot to design a somewhat energy efficient house. Not saying we are 100% the best it can get but we have done a lot of research and are doing little things to help. Better insulation, lots of attention to the air barrier and sealing (for example; no recessed lights as they interrupt the the system in the ceiling), house built around wood burning stove, a somewhat passive solar design, etc... Currently living in an old and drafty house that consumes a lot just to keep up with climate has caused us to pay attention to our new build, the idea of going off grid has us looking at it even more. Kind of fun and rewarding to be honest with you! I wish I had unlimited money to do whatever i wanted.

jcheil

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

Catscratch wrote: »

Ok, I gotcha: Have them install a transformer at their cost (which they pay the first $16,000 up front, we are responsible for the rest) near their existing line, buy my own step-up transformer and up the voltage for the run, then have my own step-down transformer at the house. So where do I shop for appropriate sized transformers? I did a quick google search and I don't think I'm looking at the right sized stuff... Are you guys familiar with manufacturers or suppliers that I can do some price checking at?

Yup, that's exactly it. Then you'd only be paying the electric company for the minimal (if any) charge to connect to your "power-shed/barn".
The rest of the cost/wiring (to the house) is on you. Not sure on where to get the transformers, many others here will likely chime in as to a good source.
It won't need to be a huge one as you would likely only need a 200a service at the "house" (guessing).

But in the end (transformers, wire, poles, labor, etc) it still might end up getting close to the $7k the other electric company is proposing.

Catscratch

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

jcheil wrote: »

That's a no-brainer, go with the other company. $7k is a drop in the bucket compared to what you are going to have to spend to get off-grid.

Kind of what I thought. We got that quote when a future neighbor (who works in the oil field and deals with electric companies often) started calling electric company board members. When I told the original electric company they said they may release us from their territory so that we can use the cheaper company (although they have higher rates, the offset on initial cost and mortgage payments with interest would probably work out for our benefit... will have to run the numbers).

This has been quite the roller coaster. One day I'm fed up and unable to use the electric company because it is going to cost $80,000, then the next day I find out I can get the grid for less than 10k. Wonder what I'm going to find out next?

Regardless of what happens in the next week or so, I'm now enamored with conservation and am interested in solar (and maybe hydro as we have running water near) even if we are connected to the grid.

Thanks again for all the help!

BB.

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

Try searching for Buck Boost transformers--I think that is what the industry calls them.

And if you have no power needs at the "shed"--The utility may be able to drop another voltage (like 480 VAC) and you can send the "high voltage" to your home, then install the Buck (voltage dropping transformer) for your home. Saves 1 transformer and the related power losses.

-Bill

jcheil

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

Catscratch wrote: »

Kind of what I thought. We got that quote when a future neighbor (who works in the oil field and deals with electric companies often) started calling electric company board members. When I told the original electric company they said they may release us from their territory so that we can use the cheaper company (although they have higher rates, the offset on initial cost and mortgage payments with interest would probably work out for our benefit... will have to run the numbers).

This has been quite the roller coaster. One day I'm fed up and unable to use the electric company because it is going to cost $80,000, then the next day I find out I can get the grid for less than 10k. Wonder what I'm going to find out next?

Regardless of what happens in the next week or so, I'm now enamored with conservation and am interested in solar (and maybe hydro as we have running water near) even if we are connected to the grid.

Thanks again for all the help!

Since you are building from the ground up; consider this:

Design your electrical distribution in the house with many individual circuits.
Have 2 service panels (actually a sub-panel from your main panel), one for all the circuits that you "could" run on solar someday and the other for high-wattage devices (range, etc) that would never run on solar.

Then you can live on-grid for a while, add some solar someday and have everything on that one panel run from the solar isolated from your other panel.
Kinda like setting up a transfer switch/panel with a generator when you only feed certain circuits. It's always going to be cheaper to "be on the grid" but this allows you to "choose" to add a bit of solar to "play with". You could even get an inverter that would run those circuits from the batteries all the time but switch over to grid power if your batteries got too low.

Sure, it is an expensive version of an "emergency generator", but if you wanna play with it, it would be a good way to do it.

AuricTech

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

jcheil wrote: »

Since you are building from the ground up; consider this:

Design your electrical distribution in the house with many individual circuits.
Have 2 service panels (actually a sub-panel from your main panel), one for all the circuits that you "could" run on solar someday and the other for high-wattage devices (range, etc) that would never run on solar.

If you go this route, I suggest using color-coded outlet faceplates to distinguish between the solar-capable and grid-only circuits.

wellbuilt

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

Im in the same boat .
we are looking at $30,000 to run power .
It seems to cost $14 and change per foot , Plus blasting holes for rock and no one has said anything about a transformer .
I do get 100' and one pole for free into my lot .
Im on a 3 year plan and the budget is not looking good.
There is talk of 900 ' deep wells all around me .
Between the well and the power im looking at spending this years budget .
The well should be drilled this week I hope .
I would rather build the house this year and spend the budget on the real work .
I may get a travel trailer and run some off grid power for now .
In ny we own our lines from the free pole to the house any way .
Im thinking under ground from the pole to the house would be better since it cant get hit buy trees .
I think I have 16" of dirt to cover the line and could make a pile on top to cover it .
Im learning lots o good stuff here

Catscratch

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

BB. wrote: »

Try searching for Buck Boost transformers--I think that is what the industry calls them.

And if you have no power needs at the "shed"--The utility may be able to drop another voltage (like 480 VAC) and you can send the "high voltage" to your home, then install the Buck (voltage dropping transformer) for your home. Saves 1 transformer and the related power losses.

-Bill

The "buck booster transformers" seem to be pretty cheap in the over all cost of things. I like this plan if I can't get an electrical company on board with what I want and need.

Catscratch

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

jcheil wrote: »

Since you are building from the ground up; consider this:

Design your electrical distribution in the house with many individual circuits.
Have 2 service panels (actually a sub-panel from your main panel), one for all the circuits that you "could" run on solar someday and the other for high-wattage devices (range, etc) that would never run on solar.

Then you can live on-grid for a while, add some solar someday and have everything on that one panel run from the solar isolated from your other panel.
Kinda like setting up a transfer switch/panel with a generator when you only feed certain circuits. It's always going to be cheaper to "be on the grid" but this allows you to "choose" to add a bit of solar to "play with". You could even get an inverter that would run those circuits from the batteries all the time but switch over to grid power if your batteries got too low.

Sure, it is an expensive version of an "emergency generator", but if you wanna play with it, it would be a good way to do it.

Sort of what my solar installer buddy said. He said to wire everything with the thought of adding panels in the future and to make sure the extra circuits were already there. I also like the color coded route, it just makes things simpler in the future!

Catscratch

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

wellbuilt wrote: »

Im in the same boat .
we are looking at $30,000 to run power .
It seems to cost $14 and change per foot , Plus blasting holes for rock and no one has said anything about a transformer .
I do get 100' and one pole for free into my lot .
Im on a 3 year plan and the budget is not looking good.
There is talk of 900 ' deep wells all around me .
Between the well and the power im looking at spending this years budget .
The well should be drilled this week I hope .
I would rather build the house this year and spend the budget on the real work .
I may get a travel trailer and run some off grid power for now .
In ny we own our lines from the free pole to the house any way .
Im thinking under ground from the pole to the house would be better since it cant get hit buy trees .
I think I have 16" of dirt to cover the line and could make a pile on top to cover it .
Im learning lots o good stuff here

Sounds very similar to what we are working with... except for the 3yr budget. Our bank wants it built in 9 months from start to finish. They don't want to pay out a loan and risk nothing getting built (unless your are able to do this without using a bank, then that would be awesome!).

Just to let you know, my friend who does a lot of electrical with the oil fields doesn't like underground. He said being underground doesn't make it indestructible and when it does have problems you can't "see" it. You have to dig the whole thing up to find it. With above ground you can at least find the problem with a quick look around. Might not be a problem where you are at but we have lots winds, tornadoes, ice storms, and earthquakes (these have only been happening recently).

Good luck to ya and keep us posted.

zoneblue

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

Solar, vs the existing nuclear/gas mindset, one of these has a future, and one does not.

From where im sitting a new build is the ideal time to vote with your feet. Think bold. Read any of Herman Scheers books and youll understand what i mean.

wellbuilt

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

I would think under ground would be better ,but you have a point about not being able to find the problem .
I don't know how to run wire on poles ?
Under ground we do a lot of, and never have problems .
plus blasting for the poles is a big ticket item .
Digging is easy 24" gos fast if there is dirt to dig, I have never pulled 1000feet of wire 400' was the most .

No bank for me I have been saving for long time .
plus im a builder and do excavation, masonry ,framing and every thing that gos with it every day , I have grown sons that work with me .
So I can keep the cost down .
Things are dragging i still don't have the go ahead for the septic system .
And my well just isn't drilled yet . luck

Alaska Man

Re: Lots of questions about going off grid...

I'm new to this site, but have been off-grid for the last few years. I started slowly. I bought my battery bank and generator, inverter/charger. Then wired the place and distribution panel. I bought the Yamaha 4 stroke 3000 Ise with key start. We have LED lights and T.V. a 120Vac water pump and an on-demand hot water heater. WE use a gas stove and are buying a Danby fridge.
We already have the Danby washing machine and dryer. If you go slow and do it yourself with a small change in life style you can do it for a lot less than $30,000. By the time I get my next array going and with the wind generator I'll have about $10,000 invested in my system. It's not realistic to size a system that doesn't use a gnerator for back up. I love the Yamaha it's very efficient (crazy effcient in my opinion), It's quiet and has plenty of nuts to charge my 880Ah bank in a few hours.

This summer I added the first couple Solar arrays with more coming. I bought a lot of my stuff of Craig's List and waited for Sales. You could probably get through your first winter just by running your genny once a day for a few hours. If you keep your power needs conservative.

If I want to run any tools or use anything with a big draw I just fire up the generator.

Good luck, look foreward to updates on your build.



ETA............ Build out of pocket. Loan Sharks are easier to deal with than the Banksters. IMO it's the only way to go.

Free yourself from the Prison of Debt. Living within your means = Total Freedom to do as you please when you please.