Study: lithium has lower energetic cost than lead acid

zonebluezoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭✭
"The Stanford team looked at several emerging technologies, including five battery types – lead-acid, lithium-ion, sodium-sulfur, vanadium-redox and zinc-bromine.

In a previous study, Barnhart calculated the energetic cost of building and maintaining each of the five battery systems for grid-scale storage. Lead-acid batteries had the highest energetic cost, lithium-ion the lowest, he found.

We calculated how much energy is used over the full lifecycle of the battery – from the mining of raw materials to the installation of the finished device," Barnhart said. "Batteries with high energetic cost consume more fossil fuels and therefore release more carbon dioxide over their lifetime"

-- http://phys.org/news/2013-09-scientists-energy-required-solar-power.html
1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


Comments

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Study: lithium has lower energetic cost than lead acid

    "Energetic cost".
    *sigh*
    We no speaky English? :p
  • john pjohn p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    Re: Study: lithium has lower energetic cost than lead acid

    Ah yes its the old energetic cost. 99. lets see where this plot takes us.?
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Study: lithium has lower energetic cost than lead acid

    Well the first thing any field of Experts do is to create their own language to prove they and only they know what they are talking about... think about it.... We foresters have a language all our own.. engineers etc


    this is Stanford-ese for total life cycle costs.

    "Our primary goal was to calculate their overall energetic cost – that is, the total amount of fuel and electricity required to build and operate these storage technologies. We found that when you factor in the energetic costs, grid-scale batteries make sense for storing surplus solar energy, but not for wind."
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
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  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Study: lithium has lower energetic cost than lead acid

    Or - - it could be energetic, as in: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREK624Ifb_L5Z6vdT8V6TElooiDBRt5LyxVQj_7ISywZLcCOLf
    Hahahaha
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Study: lithium has lower energetic cost than lead acid

    It gets a bit murkier.
    Another article http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2014/ee/c3ee42125b#!divAbstract
    by one of the original authors, which shows that the comparison for PV storage vs Wind storage is done over different time periods, see chart.

    Sure makes it hard to make some of those 'simple' statements stand up to scrutiny..

    ps look for the PDF a bit down the page (near the vertical midline of the page) to get the full article..
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • zonebluezoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Study: lithium has lower energetic cost than lead acid

    Journalised yes, my reading is that they are talking about embodied energy per Wh delivered. Questions like how they factor for things like lead recycling etc, are all unstated.

    Probably their math boils down, in essence, to cycle life. On balance longer life compensates for energy embodied in construction. In construction, its like concrete: uses lots of energy to make, but lasts proportinally much longer then other materials.

    Jury still out on lithium life, so who knows? Use in satellites starting to clock up some serious hours so maybe answers not too far away.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Study: lithium has lower energetic cost than lead acid

    Hi ZB, dont know if you looked at it but the link to the full article is on the page you linked to, same as before look for a PDF mid page under the OPEN ACCESS symbol , in the lite blue area...

    I am still wading through it

    EDIT

    here is the direct link http://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2013/ee/c3ee41973h#!divAbstract
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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