Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

mnittler

What should the charge settings be using a Xantrex XW6048?

I currently have the following:
I am on Grid most of the time but prepared for when it is not present.
I have grid voltage present 99.9% of the time and some solar and wind grid tied inverters helping out.
The XW6048 AC Out is tied to a critical loads panel (The Critical loads panel normally runs 300-1800 watts during the day) There are no 240vac loads on this Critical Loads panel.
Batteries = 16 Trojan T-105 in 2 strings of 48V.

XW6048 settings:
Battery Ahr setting = 450 AHr @20Hr
Charge Voltage = 50.2V (I already see the battery voltage going to 58-59v during the absorption stage).
Charge amps = 45 amps
Generator auto start = 48v @ 15 seconds (This is an 18kw propane generator)
Inverter Shutdown = 47V @ 90 seconds
All the AC1 (Grid), AC2 (Generator) voltage & Hz settings are whatever the defaults were.
AC1 breaker setting = 60 amps (Also protected by 60 amp breaker)
AC2 breaker setting = 60 amps (Also protected by 60 amp breaker)
AC Out breaker setting = 60 amps (Also protected by 60 amp breaker)
Charger: 2 stage with no float
Absorb time = 120 minutes
Grid Support = On (I am assuming with this that if the grid is out of wack then the Xantrex will take over and supply the critical loads panel?)
Grid support = 53V (I currently do not have any Solar charging the battery bank just the grid thru the Xantrex XW6048 ) I can imagine this value causing the grid support to rock back and forth if it is set lower than the XW6048 charge setting?
Sell = No

I talked to tech support at Trojan and asked them what the charge voltage should be and they said 56.4 to 58.8v for a 48v bank of T-105's.
Tech support said that 50.2 was way too low for T-105's.
Are we/they talking apples to apples here? Is this 56.4v (on the low end) what I should set the XW6048 Charge voltage setting to? Or does the XW6048 already charge above the voltage charge parameter?

Trojan Tech support said that 58.8 will not hurt a T-105 and that it should be taken to 62V at least once per month in equalize mode. I just want to make sure before I make any changes to the XW6048 parameters. Is charge voltage really charge voltage set point on the Xantrex. My goal here is to have the battery bank last as long as possible without self inflected damage.

I will be adding 3kw solar and a Xantrex XWMPPT60-150 charge controller to this mix in the near future to assist in keeping the batteries topped off.
I currently have 10kw solar and 10 kw wind turbine on the grid side using grid tied inverters so in a way the grid is partially renewable energy some times.

When I check my battery voltage it appears to go into absorb for about 2 hours at just under 59V with the amperage continually decreasing to near zero as is. I do not see a setting for absorb voltage except for the time to absorb in minutes.

What charging parameters would you set for a 48v T-105 bank using the Xantrex XW6048?

BB.

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

One quick suggestion... In general, the NEC requires a 1.25 (or 0.80) derating for branch circuits.

I.e., if you have 60 amp breakers, the continuous current would be:

60 amps * 0.80 NEC derating = 48 amps maximum (should be set in XW as limits)

Or if you want 60 amps of AC power, then:

60 amps needed * 1.25 NEC derating = 75 Amps or round up to 80 Amp Branch Circuit minimum

-Bill

mnittler

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

I experimented with changing the charge voltage and the upper end stayed at 58.2V no mater what I set the Charge Voltage to. It seems to me that the charge voltage on the XW6048 must be just where it starts charging again.

Is the Xantrex 6048 rated for 60 amps on AC1, AC2, and AC out?

The AC1 (Xantrex in) current 60 amp breaker using #4 wire is being feed by a 200 amp fused entrance rated disconnect.
The AC2 (Generator In) current 60 amp breaker using #4 wire is being feed by a 80 amp breaker on the generator.
The AC Out (Xantrex Out) current 60 amp breaker is being feed by the Xantrex using #6 wire and then going to a 100 amp transfer switch then going to a 100 amp main breaker on the Critical Loads Square D 100 amp Panel.
There is a GE 100 amp transfer switch in place feed from a 100 amp breaker located in the main 225 amp main panel using #3 wire to bypass the Xantrex that will feed the critical loads panel if necessary. The Transfer switch will feed the Critical loads panel either from the Xantrex AC Out or the Main House panel.

Now what you are saying is that I need to change the parameters in the Xantrex breaker AC1 and AC2 settings to 48 amps (which I have now done)? I take it this helps to protect the Xantrex circuits which are rated at what I believe to be 60 amps? I had figured that smaller breakers would be better. I left the 60 amp breakers in place and only changed the Xantrex parameter settings. I think the Xantrex XW6048 is rated 6kw with 12kw surge.
Most of the time the Xantrex is running in pass thru mode.

BB.

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

I do not know programming on the XW---A 6,000 watt at 240 VAC is 25 amps. And I believe the XW can support upwards of 1.4x the rated current on just one 120 VAC leg (or ~35 amps).

I don't know how much derating (if any) the XW does when you say "60 amps" or whatever you program for various limits. It is easy enough for them to define 60 amp circuit and limit the actual current to 48 amps (or even 25-35 amps production limit) anyway.

Also, depending on the age of the firmware (near than 1-2 years?), there is an "automatic" setting for the sell voltage. Here is one thread talking about some of the settings:

Surrette S-530 batteries small fraction of capacity

Hopefully, one of the XW experts can talk with you.

Buy the way, get a decent voltmeter and double check voltage readings on the battery bank. Some hardware will give "actual" battery voltages and other will give temperature corrected to ~77F correct voltages (i.e., if battery bank is cold, actual battery voltages will read "high", and the firmware will display a lower reading normalized to room temperature).

-Bill

arkieoscar

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

To change charge voltages, you'll need to set the battery as "custom" and then go to custom settings and you can raise (or lower) the defaults. If you set the bulk voltage higher than the absorb, it will try to keep that voltage for the first hour of absorb. You should raise your absorb time to (at least) 180 min. and use Trojans numbers for the voltage settings. Check your SGs and if they're not real close across all cells, you will need to equalize. Read the manual and make sure fluid level on all cells is good.

mnittler

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

I have 2 each Fluke 87's volt meters and 2 Fluke amp clamps AC/DC. The DC voltage on the Xantrex display is about 0.3 volts different than I read at the battery terminals with the Fluke so it is pretty close.

Xantrex XW6048 is rated:
6,000 watts Continuous
12,000 watts 10 Seconds
AC input breaker 60A
Auto Transfer Internal Relay 60A
105A L-N 15 sec
52.5A L-L 15 sec
130A DC Input

I left the AC1 (Utility in) and AC2 (Generator in) parameters at 48A and have not had any problems. I am one for trying to protect the equipment.

The first critical loads test with 1 battery string lasted for 5 hours before the generator auto started at 48 volts.
I am suspecting that the 48 amp limit will limit the generator to 48 amps and will share amps between charging and output to 48 amps. I think this Xantrex inverter is one piece of work and pretty versatile with a lot of thought going into its design.

I ran another critical loads test with 2 battery strings and after 5 hours the voltage was still at 49+V so I stopped the test.
After restoring AC power to AC1 the charging was completed in 2-1/2 hours.
I am pretty confident that the charge voltage of 50.2V is pretty good because that is 100% battery capacity? I would want any Xantrex expert to chime in and correct me if I am wrong. There just does not seem to be any exact answer.

BB.

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

Assuming those are Flooded Cell batteries--Using a good quality/temperature corrected hydrometer S.G. readings would be the best to ensure the battery bank is being properly charged. Resting voltage is not the most accurate/easiest reading to use.

-Bill

mnittler

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

I went ahead and added the 3rd string of Trojan T-105's. Now I have a total of 3 strings with 8 each 6vdc Trojan T-105 per string. The oldest set in the string is now no more than 90 days old.

My current XW6048 and Auto Generator start settings with notes are listed below. I have 3000 watts of battery charging solar cells and a Xantrex XWMPPT60-150 charge controller on order.

Can someone look at my current settings and suggest what they should be after the 3kw solar charging system is installed.
I already have 10kw solar grid tied and 10kw wind grid tied systems in place.

*************************
* XW6048 Inverter/Charger *
**************************
*** Main settings ***
Enable Inverter
Disabled Search Mode
Disabled Grid Support (Must enabled on for Grid Support & Sell)
Enable Charger
Force Charge
Disabled Equalize (I turn this on once per month)
Operating Mode

Inverter settings

*** Advanced ***
47.0 Low Voltage Cutoff (Inverter shut down voltage)
90 Sec LBCO (Low voltage Cutoff Delay)
68.0V High Voltage Cutoff
50 Watts Search Watts
2 Sec Search Delay

*** Charger settings ***
Custom Type
Custom Settings:
Bulk 57.0v
Absorb 58.0v
Float 52.9V
Equalize Disable (62.2V) (I turn this on once per month)

675 Battery Capacity
65% Max charge rate (100% setting would = 100 amps charge rate)
Charge Cycle 3StgFloat (3 Stage Charger with Float)
Warm Default Batt Temp (This is the default batt temp but since temp probe is installed then actual batt temperature is used)
50.0V Recharge Volts (Start charging below this Voltage)
180 Min Absorb Time
12:00am Charge Block Start
12:00am Charge Block Stop

*** AC Settings ***
AC1 AC Priority (AC1 is Grid connection)
48 amps AC1 Breaker (Also have Square D 60 amp breaker on AC1)
106 AC1 Low Volts
134 AC1 High Volts
55 Hz AC1 Low Frequency
65 Hz AC1 High Frequency

48 amps AC2 Breaker (AC2 is Generator connection) (Also have Square D 60 amp breaker on AC2)
80.0 V AC2 Low Volt
138 V AC2 High Volt
55 Hz AC2 Low Freq
65 Hz AC2 High Freq

*** Grid Support ***
55.0 Grid Support Volts (Grid support is On Over this voltage or stops at 1/2 Volt below this setting)
Disabled Sell (Grid Support must also be on to enable Sell to work)
14.0 Max Sell Amps (3,360 Watts)
Disabled Load Shave
48.0A Load Shave Amps
12:00am Load Shave Start
12:00am Load Shave Stop

*** Gen Support ***
Enable Gen Support
45.0A Amps (10,800 Watts) (Maximum Gen amps allowed. Support load first then remainder can be used for charging)

*** Aux Settings ***
ManualOff Manual Aux
ActiveHigh Active Level

*** Advanced Features ***
Disabled RPO (Remote Power Off)
Disabled Power Save (Reduces voltage from 240vac to 220vac)
Disabled Sell Delay 40 Sec (Default sell delay is 20 sec)
Disabled Gen Support Plus (Only used for Generators below 5Kw to help balance L1 & L2)

*******************************
* AGS Auto Generator Start *
*******************************
*** Main Settings ***
Automatic Gen Mode
Operating Mode

*** Advanced ***
Disabled QT (Quiet time)
9:00pm QT Begin
8:00am QT End
14 Gen Type (Gen type = 14 is 2 wire gen control. made= gen on, open=gen off, smarts are in Generator)

*** Cfg Trigger ***
48.0 V Start DCV 30 Sec (Start Generator Below this Battery voltage)
Disabled Start DCV 15 min
Disabled Start DCV 2 Hour
Disabled Start DCV 24 Hour
Disabled Stop Float
Enable Stop Absorb (Since grid tied most of the time then jump out of charge without absorb time to have less gen run time)
Disabled Stop V (Gen Stop Voltage)
Disabled Temp 1
Disabled Temp 2
Enable Load (Generator assist for high loads while on inverter (Battery) for critical loads)
12.0A Start Load (2880 Watts) (Start Gen if load above this amps for 5 min, also charges batteries while gen is on if possible)
7.0A Stop Load (1,680 Watts) (Stop Gen if load below this amps for 5 min, also charges batteries while gen is on if possible)

*** Cfg Gen ***
5 Sec Starter Cool Down
180 Gen Cool Down (Seconds)
60 Sec Gen Spin Down
12 hours Max Run Time
21 Days Exercise Period
10 Min Exercise Duration
9:00am Exercise Time
Not Used Relay 3
0.0 Sec Gen Hold Time
0 Sec Crank Delay
0 sec crank Time
0 sec Crank Retry Time
0 Sec Preheat Time
1 Gen Start Tries (Number of start attempts)

I am planning on lowering the XW6048 inverter charger settings to Bulk=54.0V, Absorb=55.0V, Float=52.8 (For when Grid is on)
Maybe set XPPT60-150 Solar battery charger to Bulk=59.0V, Absorb=59.0V, Float=52.8V (When Sun shines)
Set Sell at 57V @ maximum of 14 amps (3360 watts)
My logic is that if the Grid is available then with Sell=57V then the voltage will not be able to get to the 59V when the sun shines because the inverter/charger will support any load first then sell everything that is left over as long as the battery volts are above 57v or 57 volts minus 1/2V.

Is this logic sound?

The above settings are just what I currently have the settings set at and do not know if anything should be changed.

What would you change after the battery charging solar cells are installed and I am also grid tied most of the time?

reckless1

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

Hello, a little late but after i set battery to custom where do i find custom settings to adjust the battery charging parameters???
robin

arkieoscar wrote: »

To change charge voltages, you'll need to set the battery as "custom" and then go to custom settings and you can raise (or lower) the defaults. If you set the bulk voltage higher than the absorb, it will try to keep that voltage for the first hour of absorb. You should raise your absorb time to (at least) 180 min. and use Trojans numbers for the voltage settings. Check your SGs and if they're not real close across all cells, you will need to equalize. Read the manual and make sure fluid level on all cells is good.

BB.

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

Do you mean the "custom battery menus" in the inverter screen, or the battery mfg. for their "exact" charging settings, or how to figure out the custom settings you want (from your experiences based on your needs).

-Bill

mnittler

Re: Xantrex XW6048 and Battery Charge Settings

To the Question of where to find custom settings? I assume that you have the Xantrex SCP programmer and/or the Conext ComBox:
If you are asking how to enter the values after you know what values you want to enter? When you change to Battery Type "Custom" then you should be able to start entering the Bulk, Absorb, and Float values.
In my case: I am using 3 strings of 8 each Trojan T-105 (G2) golf cart batteries and the settings I now use are below:
Battery Bank Capacity: 675ah (In my case since I have 3 strings of 225ah batteries (225 X 3 = 675))
Max Charge Rate 65% (In my case 675ah/1000ah = 67% so I entered 65%)
Charge Cycle 2 stage
Default Battery temperature: Warm
Absorb time 180 minutes
Bulk: 58.7V
absorb 59.0V
Float 53.1V
Equaiize "Disable" (62.2V, I only turn this on once per month)

I also have a Xantrex MPPT60 charge controller which is also used to charge the batteries.
Because of having the MPPT60 charge controller I also program the following on the XW6048:
Charge block start 11:00pm charge block stop 11:00am (I do not want the XW6048 to charge at night since there is no solar and by 11:00am the MPPT60 has already begun charging the batteries using solar and the grid tied solar is also producing so if the XW6048 starts charging the batteries it is ok because it would be supplied by grid tied solar also if available instead of buying power) Anyway, that is my theory. I also run off of the stored power in the batteries at night by setting load shave to 2 amps between 11:00pm to 7:05am.
Again, This is what works for me on my 48VDC inverter system and the equipment that I have currently installed. You would read your battery manufacture literature to find out what the recommended settings are for your particular batteries and system setup. Again mine is a 48vdc system with 3 strings of T105 batteries.
This might be clear as mud but maybe it will help. If not then please redefine your question.