Tile roof Flashing

KozmoK

Does this flashing look right?

everything I have seen on the internet shows the large aluminum flashing. This looks small (2") to me, is this ok to use in the valley of the sun?

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I'm going with a gridtie 6.5kw Renasolar using SolarEdge Optimizers and Inverter.

BB.

Re: Tile roof Flashing

One thing I would do--Contact a roofer (get references) in your region and ask them.

In our area, lots of asphalt shingles, our roofer kept pretty busy following up on solar panel installs and fixing leaks.

-Bill

SolarPowered

Re: Tile roof Flashing

Wow. That is not right........
You need a standoff....If you rest the PV and racking on that tile you are in for some big trouble.

You need to contact these guys, they are in my local area and specialize on mounts for roofing, both tile and slate shingle.
http://www.quickmountpv.com/

KozmoK

Re: Tile roof Flashing

SolarPowered wrote: »

Wow. That is not right........
You need a standoff....If you rest the PV and racking on that tile you are in for some big trouble.

You need to contact these guys, they are in my local area and specialize on mounts for roofing, both tile and slate shingle.
http://www.quickmountpv.com/

I see what you are talking about.

SolarPowered

Re: Tile roof Flashing

KozmoK wrote: »

The standoffs screw into those, my pitch of my roof faces east and west, so I am going with large standoff's on one side to give it a 10-12 degree tilt.
I will see what exactly they are doing tomorrow.

That all thread bolt you are calling a standoff is it engineered for live load and dead load or is that your own rig?

I've never seen anything engineered like that for spanish tile roofing. Might just be my eyes deceiving me it just doesn't look right in all my years of structural installation.

A true standoff with base should look like this... When its 8"~10" higher than roof grade it will flex under the dead load, a bolt will shear without reinforcement.
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KozmoK

Re: Tile roof Flashing

They are using prosolar components

http://www.prosolar.com/prosolar-new/pages/tiletrac-series-concrete-tile.htm

Just found the install doc: http://prosolar.com/PDFS/INSTALLpdf/TILETRAC_installguide.pdf

So they are doing it correctly.

I didnt think it looked right thats why I am asking. I guess I will see what they are doing to the rest of it tomorrow.

I would have perferred the hook method so they don't drill into the tiles - but those tiles are cheap enough not a big deal (as long as it doesn't leak)
It rarely rains here in phoenix, but next rain I get I will inspect from the attic side.

SolarPowered

Re: Tile roof Flashing

KozmoK wrote: »

They are using prosolar components

http://www.prosolar.com/prosolar-new/pages/tiletrac-series-concrete-tile.htm

Just found the install doc: http://prosolar.com/PDFS/INSTALLpdf/TILETRAC_installguide.pdf

So they are doing it correctly.

I didnt think it looked right thats why I am asking. I guess I will see what they are doing to the rest of it tomorrow.

I would have perferred the hook method so they don't drill into the tiles - but those tiles are cheap enough not a big deal (as long as it doesn't leak)
It rarely rains here in phoenix, but next rain I get I will inspect from the attic side.

As long as it has engineering calcs I wouldn't worry so much. Me personally and professionally I wouldn't invest into it. They are following the instructions, and I don't like the instructions.

As far as the flashing, minimum I would use is a 3"X6" aluminum flashing, and round it to the spanish tile, and I would use polyurethane door and window sealant to glue the flashing to the tile, takes a little more time effort and energy, but if you want no leaks, that's what it takes. Those are my bare minimums.

If that is your installers instructions submitted for build thats all they are held to or its a change order for them to do more work.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

solarix

Re: Tile roof Flashing

Yes, you are doing this Prosolar Tiletrac correctly. We use this ourselves as our preferred method of mounting to most tile roofs as it is the least disruptive to tile. However, the roofing industry is moving toward a best practice standard of requiring only flashing to be the waterproof barrier and not to rely on sealants. Thus, the leasing companies will not allow use of Prosolar's tiletrac. Companies like Quickmount, will use a massive double flashed post mount or tilehook system which require slipping in additional tarpaper to create a waterproof barrier that sheds water without sealants (they still staple through the tarpaper though). Either method requires substantial cutting on the tile. In our dry climate here, I still like the TileTrac method best and I've had roofers actually laugh at us when they've seen us doing the Quickmount post system. I don't know any roofers around here actually conforming to this flashing only standard. With tile roofing, the tile is not the waterproof barrier anyway. It just protects the tarpaper underneath. You don't need to flash the tile, just need to protect the hole in the tarpaper. We can debate all day long about which is better, a tarpaper bib over the mount - or a mount that pressure clamps the sealed hole. I vote for TileTrac.
Another peeve of mine is the fasteners used. Most mounting systems call for one or two 5/16" lag bolts per mount to fasten to the roof's framing. Many times the supplied lag bolts are not even stainless and if you get lag bolts from your typical big box store, the chinese "steel" they give you is absolute break-right-off crap. 5/16" is too big even at that and really tends to split out the poor grade of truss lumber they put into houses these days. Especially when you put two of them in a couple inches apart. I say - use Simpson SDS screws. They are engineered for this application, with published specs far in excess of what solar mounts need, available at the same stores in a 1/4" x 3" size which gives you 2" penetration into the truss without a pilot drill (although good to do just to find the truss), has a specially formed tip that cuts through the wood instead of splitting it - an all around better solution than lag bolts. I've seen mounts supplied with 5" zinc-coated lag bolts (spec'd by official structural engineers), that just plain damage the roof framing.

KozmoK

Re: Tile roof Flashing

Thanks for the info! I am glad they are doing it right it seems like a pretty easy system. I hope the bolts/screws they use are not the cheap ones!

I looked at the lag bolts they are using stainless steal "THE" Tong Hwei Enterprises

solarix wrote: »

Yes, you are doing this Prosolar Tiletrac correctly. We use this ourselves as our preferred method of mounting to most tile roofs as it is the least disruptive to tile. However, the roofing industry is moving toward a best practice standard of requiring only flashing to be the waterproof barrier and not to rely on sealants. Thus, the leasing companies will not allow use of Prosolar's tiletrac. Companies like Quickmount, will use a massive double flashed post mount or tilehook system which require slipping in additional tarpaper to create a waterproof barrier that sheds water without sealants (they still staple through the tarpaper though). Either method requires substantial cutting on the tile. In our dry climate here, I still like the TileTrac method best and I've had roofers actually laugh at us when they've seen us doing the Quickmount post system. I don't know any roofers around here actually conforming to this flashing only standard. With tile roofing, the tile is not the waterproof barrier anyway. It just protects the tarpaper underneath. You don't need to flash the tile, just need to protect the hole in the tarpaper. We can debate all day long about which is better, a tarpaper bib over the mount - or a mount that pressure clamps the sealed hole. I vote for TileTrac.
Another peeve of mine is the fasteners used. Most mounting systems call for one or two 5/16" lag bolts per mount to fasten to the roof's framing. Many times the supplied lag bolts are not even stainless and if you get lag bolts from your typical big box store, the chinese "steel" they give you is absolute break-right-off crap. 5/16" is too big even at that and really tends to split out the poor grade of truss lumber they put into houses these days. Especially when you put two of them in a couple inches apart. I say - use Simpson SDS screws. They are engineered for this application, with published specs far in excess of what solar mounts need, available at the same stores in a 1/4" x 3" size which gives you 2" penetration into the truss without a pilot drill (although good to do just to find the truss), has a specially formed tip that cuts through the wood instead of splitting it - an all around better solution than lag bolts. I've seen mounts supplied with 5" zinc-coated lag bolts (spec'd by official structural engineers), that just plain damage the roof framing.

SolarPowered

Re: Tile roof Flashing

solarix wrote: »

However, the roofing industry is moving toward a best practice standard of requiring only flashing to be the waterproof barrier and not to rely on sealants.

It's more than the roofing industry, according to the uniform Building Code that allthread should not be used past 3". Solar was just recognizable according to the NEC with very little detail on structural anchorring now the UBC defines the structure impacts. That anchoring is not allowable according to building code. Has nothing to do with roofers.

For years an all thread bolt is not to exceed 3" according to code, so how that thing made its way into the solar industry as an anchoring structural piece of racking is a serious problem.

Me being a class B I couldn't touch that thing, my license would be in question if installing it. Also most local jurisdictions in California would look at that and say what is it?

You ever see street lights? They use 7/8" to 1-3/8" all threads then the base of that street light is packed and filled with structural mortar to reduce shearing. We even use J bolts and those threads aren't allowable passed 3" for a structural mortar fill according to DSA when we build parking lot structures. How a 12" all thread is allowable and considered a standoff, now there is a problem. Just because something is patented, does not mean that it meets uniform Building Code.

For me being a class B flashing doesn't matter, as I the installer, and I have to assume the warranty of the roof and cover leaks for 10 years.

SolarPowered

Re: Tile roof Flashing

UBC requires to take the calculated tensil strength, then load to assume the max height of the bolt and apply to dead load and a live load factor. Shear strength and tensil strength are 2 very different calculations.

The Industrial Fastener Institute (Inch Fastener Standards, 7th ed. 2003. B states that shear strength is approximately 60% of the minimum tensile strength.

http://www.portlandbolt.com/faqs/calculating-strength/#sthash.KNKxcPHQ.dpuf

No all thread meets the requirement of a standoff according to the ASTM spec chart on all thread tension/tensil strength, this chart was provided for concrete anchoring systems, for bolt down applications.

In short, if you don't understand tensil and tension strength, you can do real time physical scenario's if you can grab the top of that all thread rod and bend it even 3/16" of an inch it shouldn't be your standoff solution, a true stand off once anchored should not bend or flex at all.

SolarPowered

Re: Tile roof Flashing

All I will do is wish you the best of luck. That all thread is some scary stuff. Take some video footage when the gusty winds come in I'm interested to see. Just make the video long enough so I can pop some pop corn, and catch the climax.
J/K call your inspector before some one gets hurt.

KozmoK

Re: Tile roof Flashing

SolarPowered wrote: »

All I will do is wish you the best of luck. That all thread is some scary stuff. Take some video footage when the gusty winds come in I'm interested to see. Just make the video long enough so I can pop some pop corn, and catch the climax.
J/K call your inspector before some one gets hurt.

Will do. I will ask the inspector about that they are due to come out next week. It looks like they were cutting costs and not using the full angle tilt kit - and just extending the threaded steel shaft up.