APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

solarixsolarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
APS is at it again to strike against solar!

Arizona Public Service is once again trying to change the rules to damage the rooftop solar industry. This time, APS has proposed to eliminate the requirement that they get a paltry 4.5% of their energy from solar power by 2025. This comes shortly after the push to tax solar customer $50-$100, which you helped defeat.

Show your support for solar once more, by attending a meeting at the Arizona Corporation Commission this Thursday, February 6 at 10am at 1200 W. Washington St., Phoenix AZ 85007.

If you are unable to join in person, please email your support to the Chairman of the Commission at [email protected]. Suggested email to send is below.

Thanks, stand strong,

Tell Utilities Solar won't be Killed (TUSK)

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SUGGESTED EMAIL TO SEND TO [email protected]
Dear Chairman and Commissioners,

APS has once again attempted to eliminate competition by proposing to get rid of the solar requirement in the Renewable Energy Standards. The solar industry has brought jobs and investment to Arizona, and saves our citizens money. Eliminating this requirement would weaken the solar industry in the long-term, and ensure APS loses its status as a top solar state.

Please vote no to eliminating the solar distributed generation carve out.

Comments

  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    I guess I am not shocked. I really expected them to try something else. The next rate case should also be a real interesting attack. I expect them to try and redo the EPR6 and EPR2 tariffs.

    I would not be surprised at a complete revamp of all the tariffs to align better with the cost to maintain the grid by lowering the per kWh generation and delivery costs and implementing a flat system wide flat fee for all customers as a "grid maintenance fee". In effect a push for non solar users but a large increase for those of us with solar systems.
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....
    solarix wrote: »
    APS is at it again to strike against solar!

    I just got back from Solar Power Generation 2014 conference in San Diego, and APS was on a panel there. When asked, they said were all about supporting distributed generation and distributed storage. The guy (whose name, somewhat unfortunately, was "Jihad") got mild attacks from several people talking about "100 year old business models" and "inflexible networks." At one point Jihad said "well, I'm retiring soon anyway." He was definitely on the defensive, especially since two other people on the panel were from CAL-ISO and SMA.
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    I just got a letter say that APS was going to replace my solar production meter with some sort of smart meter. Up til now I had to fill out a card for them once a year with the mechanical meter reading.

    here is a site with the APS and ACC decision.
    http://abcosolar.wordpress.com/tag/aps-production-meters/

    I suspect this is to prove the actual production with better numbers for the REST requirements. I don't recall and request over the last couple years to read the current meter.
    http://images.edocket.azcc.gov/docketpdf/0000133960.pdf
  • DanS26DanS26 Solar Expert Posts: 253 ✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....
    solar_dave wrote: »
    I guess I am not shocked. I really expected them to try something else. The next rate case should also be a real interesting attack. I expect them to try and redo the EPR6 and EPR2 tariffs.

    I would not be surprised at a complete revamp of all the tariffs to align better with the cost to maintain the grid by lowering the per kWh generation and delivery costs and implementing a flat system wide flat fee for all customers as a "grid maintenance fee". In effect a push for non solar users but a large increase for those of us with solar systems.


    This is what I live with........ a $34.50 a month "facilities charge" which APS is describing as a "grid maintenance fee".

    I am connected to an Indiana REMC. This REMC has implemented "net billing" vs "net metering". I pay retail for energy and sell excess at wholesale. On top of that I pay this $34.50 facilities charge. But really I look at the retail/wholesale difference as my cost to use the grid as my battery backup. The facility charge is fair for everyone.

    Solar needs to stand on its own. To do that it is imperative to separate the production costs from the distribution costs. Actually I think APS is on the right track here by trying to separate the true costs to provide energy to each home. Solar cannot be subsidized forever.
    23.16kW Kyocera panels; 2 Fronius 7.5kW inverters; Nyle hot water; Steffes ETS; Great Lakes RO; Generac 10kW w/ATS, TED Pro System monitoring with PVOutput.org
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 990 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    Better duck Dan...you may get some flak.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,921 admin
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    Not from me. :-)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    I think he means from people who will argue that 'standard' power generation is also subsidized in various ways.

    But Dan's point is valid there too: it is inevitable that power pricing is going to be separated into cost of delivery (paying for infrastructure) and cost for power used. In fact in some places it already is. We certainly have some interesting charges on our bill (particularly the natural gas, where if the furnace comes on the gas goes up $3 but the bill goes up $12). At the same time our whole electric bill is usually little more than Dan's "facilities charge".

    It certainly isn't the same all over. In some places non-subsidized solar can already compete with standard power.
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    We already have a separate delivery charge and generation charge, the issue is each is kWh based. Because of that if I deliver more than I use from them then I get no service delivery charge, it is based on annual consumption and I generally get pretty ahead by June. This year we only paid the service delivery charge in August and September. By October I was ahead again.

    If it was a flat fee per every residential user I would agree to it. Then solar is not at any advantage.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,921 admin
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    The New/Proposed rules also hurts people who conserve... High per month connection charges and low power usage. At some point, if you conserve/don't use much electricity, it may be cost competitive to disconnect from the grid (we have at least one member who did that with his remote cabin--Cheaper to run a generator+solar than to pay 12 months of connection fees).

    At that point, you will either see laws that "require" utility connections/outlaws and/more makes high disconnect fees (already the law in California) to keep the customer base. At some point, the loss of customers and costs spread over an ever decreasing customer base (causing more people to abandon utility power) could dramatically reduce the size of the "grid".

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....
    BB. wrote: »
    The New/Proposed rules also hurts people who conserve...

    But with the reduced charge per kwh, perhaps they won't conserve so much. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....
    BB. wrote: »
    The New/Proposed rules also hurts people who conserve... High per month connection charges and low power usage. At some point, if you conserve/don't use much electricity, it may be cost competitive to disconnect from the grid (we have at least one member who did that with his remote cabin--Cheaper to run a generator+solar than to pay 12 months of connection fees).

    At that point, you will either see laws that "require" utility connections/outlaws and/more makes high disconnect fees (already the law in California) to keep the customer base. At some point, the loss of customers and costs spread over an ever decreasing customer base (causing more people to abandon utility power) could dramatically reduce the size of the "grid".

    -Bill

    I tend to agree. However in my situation disconnecting and using a battery based system will just not work as I could never generate enough to carry the place during those peak summer month. I figure that to go off grid I would need to at least double the array size to 25 Kw and have a huge fork lift battery farm. It is a tough road when you are cooling about 25,000 cu ft with a delta temperature up to 50F. Add in the other loads and you can see the issue pretty quickly.

    Last July the consumption was:
    Main House 2630 kWh That is the 25,000 cu ft cooling load
    Office/shop 830 kWh depending on occupancy that can be upto 5000 cu ft
    Volt charging ~300 kWh
    That is 125kWh a day. The best the solar will do in July is about 60-65 kWh a day.

    Just think about it, a energy star fridge only cools 20-25 cu ft and the delta temp is only about 35-40F.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,921 admin
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    If $50 of your bill is connection fees and $0-$50 per kWH charges (maybe $0.06 per kWH)--It does make reducing energy usage (via spending money on Energy Star Appliances/Insulation/etc.) a bit more difficult to justify.

    Cut your usage by 1/2 and only reduce your bill by 1/4.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....
    BB. wrote: »
    If $50 of your bill is connection fees and $0-$50 per kWH charges (maybe $0.06 per kWH)--It does make reducing energy usage (via spending money on Energy Star Appliances/Insulation/etc.) a bit more difficult to justify.

    Cut your usage by 1/2 and only reduce your bill by 1/4.

    -Bill

    Today the connection fees are about $20.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,921 admin
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    Today, my connection fee (in northern California) is ~$4.50 per month. And our per kWH pricing ranges from ~$0.08 to $0.55 per kHW depending on season, time of use, total amount used per month--the more you use, the higher per kWH rages--etc. (prices are changing as the PUC and Utility keep "adjusting" for social justice).

    If you use a lot of power (more than ~1,000 kWH per month) on summer afternoons--Today, it really pays to reduce usage/generate your own GT power.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....
    BB. wrote: »
    Today, my connection fee (in northern California) is ~$4.50 per month. And our per kWH pricing ranges from ~$0.08 to $0.55 per kHW depending on season, time of use, total amount used per month--the more you use, the higher per kWH rages--etc. (prices are changing as the PUC and Utility keep "adjusting" for social justice).

    If you use a lot of power (more than ~1,000 kWH per month) on summer afternoons--Today, it really pays to reduce usage/generate your own GT power.

    -Bill

    I agree, with our TOU I paid for no on-peak power last year, NONE! and loving it.

    there are the "connection fees" before taxes:
    Customer account charge $7.14
    Environmental benefits surcharge $5.01
    System benefits charge $1.15
    Power supply adjustment* $0.51
    Metering* $5.58
    Meter reading* $1.86
    Billing* $2.10
    LFCR adjustor $0.11
    
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,921 admin
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    For my home, I only pay weekday noon-6pm charges during winter... During summer, I "sell" power to the grid at $0.32 per kWH and "buy" power (off peak) at $0.08 per kWH.

    During the "6 months of winter" billing, the difference between peak and off peak is only ~$0.03-$0.04 per kWH (tier charges still run $0.10 to $0.32 per kWH--and I am always in the first tier).

    And sort of on forum topic--Looks like we had a bit of infrastructure attack a few months ago in California:

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-grid-terror-20140207,0,5892405.story
    But this week, a former top power regulator offered a far more ominous interpretation: The attack was terrorism, he said, and if circumstances had been just a little different, it could have been disastrous. Jon Wellinghoff, who was chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission when the shooting took place, said that attack was clearly executed by well-trained individuals seeking to do significant damage to the area, and he fears it was a test run for an even larger assault.
    ...
    "Based on the information we have right now, we don't believe it's related to terrorism," said Peter Lee, an FBI spokesman in San Francisco. But, he added, "Until we understand the motives, we won't be 100% sure it's not terrorism."

    ... The attack on the PG&E facility targeted the sophisticated transformers that are at the backbone of the nation's electricity grid. The giant pieces of equipment are essential, costly and could take months to replace. Knock out enough of them, experts warn, and an entire region can be crippled for an extended period. They are also typically out in the open like sitting ducks.

    On that April night, the attackers managed to disable 17 of them just by shooting through a chain-link fence. The bullet holes caused the transformers to leak thousands of gallons of oil, and ultimately overheat. Grid operators scrambled to reroute power from elsewhere to keep the system from collapse. The power stayed on, but just barely, because it happened during a time when demand for electricity was very low.


    A bit of "prepping" would not be a bad thing right now.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....

    Bill, I think this was the most telling part, very little will be done due to perceived costs of deterrent measures.

    The bullet holes were carefully targeted so as not to hit the parts of the equipment that would cause an explosion and attract the attention of drivers on nearby U.S. 101. Of some 120 shots fired from at least 40 yards outside the fence, 110 of them hit transformers, Wellinghoff said.

    "A dress rehearsal" is how Mark Johnson, a retired vice president at PG&E, described the event to a Philadelphia gathering of electricity industry officials in November. Johnson said the attackers opened two 75-pound manhole covers and used a ladder to cut fiber-optic lines, a possible attempt to disconnect security cameras. They fired for seven minutes, targeting radiators on the banks of transformers.

    "This wasn't an incident where Billy-Bob and Joe decided after a bunch of brewskis they were going to shoot up a substation," he said. "When you look at this event and how calculated, how well organized and how well thought out it was, it clearly indicates that a chain-link fence was not enough to secure a substation."

    PG&E officials say they are taking steps to improve grid security and are consulting with government agencies on how best to do so.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-grid-terror-20140207,0,5892405.story#ixzz2sfQQ3XbU


    the last part reminds me of the George Carlin speech about politicians and their 'speak' or lack thereof...http://prof77.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/george-carlin-forget-the-politicians/
     
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  • SolInvictusSolInvictus Solar Expert Posts: 138
    Re: APS is on the attack in Arizona again....
    solarix wrote: »
    ... meeting at the Arizona Corporation Commission this Thursday, February 6 at 10am....
    What happened at the meeting?
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