utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller

i will be upgrading my 4.2KW 24 volt battery backup off grid system with the addition of 18 Sharp ND167U3 panels. My preliminary thinking is to string all 18 of them in series and use the Xantrex 80-600 volt mppt charge controller.. It will be a "FIELD MOUNT RACK" with about a 200 ft. run to the controller.

The info data on the panels show a Voc of 29.02 volts. A Vmax of 23.53 volts. Max power current 7.10 amps and a Short circut 7.9 amps. Max system volts of 600. If my calcs. are correct - a string of 18 in series will produce 522 volts. Will the single Xantrex 80-600 handle that load?:D
mrleemus

Comments

  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller
    mrleemus1 wrote: »
    i will be upgrading my 4.2KW 24 volt battery backup off grid system with the addition of 18 Sharp ND167U3 panels. My preliminary thinking is to string all 18 of them in series and use the Xantrex 80-600 volt mppt charge controller.. It will be a "FIELD MOUNT RACK" with about a 200 ft. run to the controller.

    The info data on the panels show a Voc of 29.02 volts. A Vmax of 23.53 volts. Max power current 7.10 amps and a Short circut 7.9 amps. Max system volts of 600. If my calcs. are correct - a string of 18 in series will produce 522 volts. Will the single Xantrex 80-600 handle that load?

    If you ever get to below -20C in your area you will see >600 volts which is beyond the rating of the Xantrex.
    At full power you will see about 104 amps at 24 volts which is higher than the max current rating. However this should not damage the device and instead you will see ~80 amps.
    Note - max voltage in and min voltage out is the worst case for efficiency, so you will tend to see low efficiencies overall.
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller
    mrleemus1 wrote: »
    If my calcs. are correct - a string of 18 in series will produce 522 volts. Will the single Xantrex 80-600 handle that load?

    Handle that load? What load? Usually the charge controller is the load on the array, and the battery is the load on the controller (except at night when the controller becomes a load on the battery).

    As far as voltage is concerned, I think your proposal may be too close to the edge. The xantrex operating specs are up to 550 volts, and it can track the MPP up to 510 volts. Depending on your climate, your array voltage may exceed its operating range, or may even exceed 600 volts and damage it.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • mrleemus1mrleemus1 Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Handle that load? What load? Usually the charge controller is the load on the array, and the battery is the load on the controller (except at night when the controller becomes a load on the battery).

    As far as voltage is concerned, I think your proposal may be too close to the edge. The xantrex operating specs are up to 550 volts, and it can track the MPP up to 510 volts. Depending on your climate, your array voltage may exceed its operating range, or may even exceed 600 volts and damage it.

    --vtMaps

    I am in the central california foothills -- a pretty mild climate; the typical winter days are in the 40 degree range. Perhaps i should reduce the number of panels used from 18 in a string to 16 in a string. That would put the Voc down to 464 volts and provide a margin of safety.
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller
    mrleemus1 wrote: »
    I am in the central california foothills -- a pretty mild climate; the typical winter days are in the 40 degree range. Perhaps i should reduce the number of panels used from 18 in a string to 16 in a string. That would put the Voc down to 464 volts and provide a margin of safety.

    Typical winter daytime temperatures are irrelevant. Any amount of daylight (even bright moonlight) can bring your panels up to Voc. You need to know the record low temperature for your location. Then subtract a few degrees from that to account for radiative cooling. Then you can calculate the maximum Voc of your array.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • mrleemus1mrleemus1 Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Typical winter daytime temperatures are irrelevant. Any amount of daylight (even bright moonlight) can bring your panels up to Voc. You need to know the record low temperature for your location. Then subtract a few degrees from that to account for radiative cooling. Then you can calculate the maximum Voc of your array.

    --vtMaps

    Here is the link to the product features of the Xantrex XW 80-600 mppt. Over voltage (Voc) and over current are a product feature.

    http://www.affordable-solar.com/store/solar-charge-controller/Schneider-Electric-XW-MPPT-80-600V-Charge-Controller

    mrleemus1
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,629 admin
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller

    Here is the same unit from our host NAWS (Northern Arizona Wind & Sun):

    http://www.solar-electric.com/xaxwmp80amp6.html

    We try to link to our host's website when they carry the equipment--They pay the hosting fees and keep the forum up and running.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller
    mrleemus1 wrote: »
    ... the product features of the Xantrex XW 80-600 mppt. Over voltage (Voc) and over current are a product feature ...
    mrleemus1

    Am not certain what you are trying to say in the above, but YES this product does have the ability to tolerate Voc, but up to a LIMIT. This limit is 600.000000 Volts. Anything over this, from what I understand, the POOFING sound that you would hear is that of the Warranty (at the very least).

    Am quite certain that this product, like many CCs records, in non-volatile/non erasable memory. These are real limits, to never be approached.
    Some CCs, like those from MidNite, have the normal Voc, at which point, the CC ceases operation, but has an additional cushion -- HyperVoc -- a higher voltage where the CC will not be damaged while not operating.

    It is quite possible that there could be newly-established Record Lows, as weather gyrations increase -- my opinion. Good Luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • mrleemus1mrleemus1 Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller
    Vic wrote: »
    Am not certain what you are trying to say in the above, but YES this product does have the ability to tolerate Voc, but up to a LIMIT. This limit is 600.000000 Volts. Anything over this, from what I understand, the POOFING sound that you would hear is that of the Warranty (at the very least).

    Am quite certain that this product, like many CCs records, in non-volatile/non erasable memory. These are real limits, to never be approached.
    Some CCs, like those from MidNite, have the normal Voc, at which point, the CC ceases operation, but has an additional cushion -- HyperVoc -- a higher voltage where the CC will not be damaged while not operating.

    It is quite possible that there could be newly-established Record Lows, as weather gyrations increase -- my opinion. Good Luck, Vic

    How about utilizing a circuit breaker for protection ---- something like a 500volt DC - 10 Amp din rail mount?
    mrleemus1
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller

    Voc = Open Circuit VOLTAGE. This occurs when there is NO current (or very, very low current) flowing. Therefore for that circuit breaker will do nothing to protect the Charge Controller from the high unloaded voltage.

    Highest Voc usually occurs on cold/very cold mornings, before the sun's direct rays are on the PV array -- often just before local Sunrise. At these times, there is not nearly enough current available to run the Converter inside the CC (so no load on the PVs).

    So, use a String Sizing Tool (perhaps at the Schneider Electric site) to find the correct combination the number of PV modules and Voc/Vmp ratings for the coldest recorded temperature for a site very near you. Local conditions can have a dramatic effect on just how low the temperature will get at YOUR site. Here, traveling 1/2 mile can cause a temperature change of 15 or 20 degrees F at any given time, when inversions are present. Therefore, it is often, good to not try to run very close to the limit of High Voc, when choosing PVs and the number per string. YMMV.

    Will admit that one system here is pushing toward the edge of the Voc range ... highest Voc over the past nine-ish years is 141 V on a CC with a 150 V absolute Max Voc on the input, FWIW. Good questions to ask, before purchase of any hardware. Good Luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller

    18 panels is to much for the 80 amp controller on a 24 volt battery. You would need 2 of them. I would suggest going with a lower voltage/lower cost controller and using a pair of them and slightly larger wire. Let me explain.

    6 panels in series and 2 strings is 174VOC, 141.18VMP and 14.2 IMP so run that into say a Classic 200 and use #6 aluminum with a 2.48% drop or #8 Copper with a 2.5% drop

    Now take the remaining 6 panels in series for 174VOC, 141.18VMP and 7.1ISC so run this into a Classic 200 and use #10 copper for 1.9% drop

    In reality voltage drop is becoming less of an issue with cheaper PV but with a 24 volt battery 18 of those panels is to much for any body's charge controller thus needing 2. With the scenario above you have room for some future expansion.

    Ryan
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller
    mrleemus1 wrote: »
    I am in the central california foothills -- a pretty mild climate; the typical winter days are in the 40 degree range. Perhaps i should reduce the number of panels used from 18 in a string to 16 in a string. That would put the Voc down to 464 volts and provide a margin of safety.

    You can use 20F as your typical max low if you are below 3000 feet where we live. Another strategy is to just bypass a panel for winter if you are close to the maximum input voltage. That takes about 5 minutes. The output to the XW -80 is a 100 amp breaker and the unit will current limit to protect itself.
    They are very well built for tough environments and I have seen some impressive test data from the design phase. Good Luck!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • johnnysolarjohnnysolar Registered Users Posts: 14
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller

    I have used the Xantrex Mppt 80/600 on a few different jobs. Up until the tristar 600v controller came out this year it was the only 600v CC on the market. Some people hate xantrex, I think its fine and when you got a really long wiring run you dont have a lot of options. Wire it up like a string inverter. I have 18 250's on it and they are in two strings of 9. Maybe a few days out of the year the CC clips the top off the PV arrays power output but i think the CC max output is about 4600 watts on that CC but for the most part it works fine. If you are worried about overcurrent protection use the klkd 600v fuses. I always break the positives coming off the solar with a 30 Amp 600v DC disconnect. The operating voltages for the CC are 220-550 vdc i believe. It says it on the front of the charge controller. It is super expensive. Is your battery max charge rate going to be able to utilize the controller?
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,629 admin
    Re: utilizing a Xantrex XW-MPPT 80-600 charge controller

    I have heard nothing about the Morningstar 600 VDC input charge controller other than it exists:

    TS-MPPT-600V-w-BOS-angled-Fixed-F3-72DPI.png TriStar MPPT 600V Controllers 60A at up to 600Voc

    The TriStar MPPT 600V charge controller uses advanced power electronics to efficiently utilize up to 600 Voc (open circuit voltage) PV or wind to charge 48 Vdc battery systems. Rated for 60 Amps, our TriStar MPPT 600V controller does much more than efficiently charge batteries; it also provides remote communications, data logging, adjustability and metering. In fact, the TriStar MPPT 600V controller is the only 600-volt PV controller to offer open communication protocols and true Ethernet-enabled functionality.

    In general, their controllers have been good.

    Morningstar TriStar 600 Volt 60 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller


    $1,265 without the disconnect from our host NAWS.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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