A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

A Solar Boom So Successful, It's Been Halted, Scientific American, December 20, 2013.

Some criticism of the Hawaiian utility's decision: Booming Solar Energy Halted by Hawaii Utility Because Sun Produces Too Much Power!, Buzz Flash, December 27, 2013.
Hawaiian Electric Co., or HECO, in September told solar contractors on Oahu that the island's solar boom is creating problems. On many circuits, the utility said, there's so much solar energy that it poses a threat to the system and a safety issue. Studies are needed on whether grid upgrades are necessary. If they are, residents adding solar must foot the bill. And starting immediately, contractors and residents would need permission to connect most small rooftop systems to the grid.

Irrelevant studies stall, delay and create excuses to bill the producers of renewable power to suppress the competition. The only "threat to the system" pertains to HECO's profits. We need to advance energy storage systems, not just batteries, but ones to store the energy as heat and cold to thwart this counterstrike by making the grid irrelevant. Otherwise, as goes Arizona led by Arizona Public Service, so sinks the nation back into monopolistic corporate servitude.

Comments

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    solarinvictus,
    just so you know that when you put something into the rss section that it will disappear in time. if you want to keep the subject matter on the forum then you should pick an appropriate area above.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,489 admin
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    Thank you Niel,

    Thread moved.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 850 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted
    The only "threat to the system" pertains to HECO's profits.

    There's also a bit of a threat to grid stability. When a utility cannot control its sources of generation OR load, it becomes very hard to control the system. In some places (Spain, Germany) they dealt with this by requiring inverter manufacturers to provide a "feed-in control" so the utility can dial back the amount of solar generated during times of oversupply.

    This isn't a pressing problem in most places because solar typically provides only a small fraction of total load, but as the percentage of solar grows we will see this problem more and more often.
    We need to advance energy storage systems, not just batteries, but ones to store the energy as heat and cold to thwart this counterstrike by making the grid irrelevant.

    As I am sure you are aware you could go completely off-grid right now, and thus make the grid irrelevant for you. It will cost a lot of money, but if it's important to you, go for it.
  • PNjunctionPNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    Reading about this issue a year or two ago in an engineering article, one of the major problems is that the grid not being designed for solar in the first place, is now suffering from huge surges when entire city blocks, or even larger areas pass in and out of shadows, clouds etc.

    Now that popular demand to install solar is booming, the infrastructure must be upgraded to handle unpredictable 3rd-party providers (solar owners). It is as simple as that, rather than being denied some sort of new right to feed back to the grid. Infrastructure to handle solar will become a problem for us all, not just Hawaii.

    I'm sure the motives of most are good, but I always wonder just how "green" people would be if there were NO installation incentives or subsidies, other than a reduction in their bill and the great feeling that they are reducing their own carbon footprint for the benefit of the world. Unfortunately I'm skeptical and think that for some, going green is a smokescreen and has more to do with the green in the wallet than trying to save the rainforest.

    Some shouldn't be so upset being asked to help pay for the infrastructure upgrade, as the incentives and subsidies they got really comes from their neighbors taxes, who may not be doing solar themselves, and reaping no immediate benefits from it.
  • verdigoverdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted
    PNjunction wrote: »

    I'm sure the motives of most are good, but I always wonder just how "green" people would be if there were NO installation incentives or subsidies, other than a reduction in their bill and the great feeling that they are reducing their own carbon footprint for the benefit of the world. Unfortunately I'm skeptical and think that for some, going green is a smokescreen and has more to do with the green in the wallet than trying to save the rainforest.

    Some shouldn't be so upset being asked to help pay for the infrastructure upgrade, as the incentives and subsidies they got really comes from their neighbors taxes, who may not be doing solar themselves, and reaping no immediate benefits from it.

    Where is the like button?
  • solarixsolarix Solar Expert Posts: 713 ✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    Interesting to me how the establishment is johnny-on-the-spot when its interests are merely threatened but not so much when actual dangers it causes occur. Have you ever heard of a roof failure due to a solar array being installed? No. - but yet, a very significant cost is expended on every install to prove the structure. Has the Hawaiian utility ever had an actual instability event occur due to effects from 4% solar? Just in case, we're going to shut down the industry. Have you ever heard of climate change, rising oceans, receding glaciers, or increasingly extreme weather? well, we're not going to do anything until these are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt......
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted
    PNjunction wrote: »
    Reading about this issue a year or two ago in an engineering article, one of the major problems is that the grid not being designed for solar in the first place, is now suffering from huge surges when entire city blocks, or even larger areas pass in and out of shadows, clouds etc.....

    If the cops are putting surveillance cams "everywhere" they can be used to detect cloud movement and forecast shadows. But for the utilities to whine and cry about their "free" additional power being unstable, is a smokescreen IMHO. They should start using the smart meters to shut down loads!
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • mahendramahendra Solar Expert Posts: 141 ✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    Again i say it its all US.Aren't we suppose to keep upgrading our systems Especially a corporation/firm that provide a service,Isn't upgrading part of their planning and budget ,i fully understand that i may not be going in line with new technology but come on that is an embarrassment and to that utility company,why did they allow pv installation to begin with.They were smart enough to figure out whats causing the problem but not smart enough to anticipate it even after some many live scenarios in other parts in the world if not country.While i am not an engineer i am within the engineering field ( mechanical engineering at collage level ).we were trained to anticipate stuff like that within our respective fields.Its all corporate schemes.
  • mahendramahendra Solar Expert Posts: 141 ✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    Just to maybe remind or add to our memories.I read an article when i was i collage ,can't remember exact writer or publisher ,but it stated that there has been no new real technological advancement since WWII and now i know why.Because we are suffocating our engineers,scientist etc. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm no wonder we cant have great battery technology for off grid solar/large scale power storage. Just food for solar thought guys.
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 850 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted
    PNjunction wrote: »
    I'm sure the motives of most are good, but I always wonder just how "green" people would be if there were NO installation incentives or subsidies, other than a reduction in their bill and the great feeling that they are reducing their own carbon footprint for the benefit of the world. Unfortunately I'm skeptical and think that for some, going green is a smokescreen and has more to do with the green in the wallet than trying to save the rainforest.

    In my experience it is generally both - a desire to generate clean energy and a desire to make money (or at least not lose money.) Which is why incentives work.
    Some shouldn't be so upset being asked to help pay for the infrastructure upgrade

    They are, as does everyone who pays for power. Adding smart grid features (load shedding, load shifting, control of generation) helps all utility customers by making the grid more reliable overall.
  • SolInvictusSolInvictus Solar Expert Posts: 138
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted
    niel wrote:
    if you want to keep the subject matter on the forum then you should pick an appropriate area above.
    Yes. No other place seems suitable for posting general news for comment.
    There's also a bit of a threat to grid stability. When a utility cannot control its sources of generation OR load, it becomes very hard to control the system. In some places (Spain, Germany) they dealt with this by requiring inverter manufacturers to provide a "feed-in control" so the utility can dial back the amount of solar generated during times of oversupply.

    This isn't a pressing problem in most places because solar typically provides only a small fraction of total load, but as the percentage of solar grows we will see this problem more and more often.
    The utilities knew all about this when they approved the specifications of grid-tied inverters years ago. They chose not to include control to limit the power during excess production. They could alter the specifications today, but instead choose to hide behind bureaucratic excuses to stall, delay and defeat the competition.
    As I am sure you are aware you could go completely off-grid right now, and thus make the grid irrelevant for you. It will cost a lot of money, but if it's important to you, go for it.
    I have been off-grid for 23 years, and it has cost me less money than if I had stayed on grid measured in total money spent, not cost/kilowatt hour. The magic of demand-side management....
    PNjunction wrote:
    Reading about this issue a year or two ago in an engineering article, one of the major problems is that the grid not being designed for solar in the first place, is now suffering from huge surges when entire city blocks, or even larger areas pass in and out of shadows, clouds etc.
    These surges are indistinguishable from loads turning on and off from the perspective of the grid and power plant operator until grid-tied PV penetration becomes large.
    PNjunction wrote:
    Some shouldn't be so upset being asked to help pay for the infrastructure upgrade, as the incentives and subsidies they got really comes from their neighbors taxes, who may not be doing solar themselves, and reaping no immediate benefits from it.
    Neither the utility nor the neighbor pay a fossil carbon tax thus externalizing the cost of their pollution onto everyone. The PV system includes the cost of fossil carbon emission and does not externalize that cost onto others. In a capitalist system, a producer produces electricity, and a consumer pays the producer for the electricity he consumes including the cost of delivering that electricity. Your argument is a socialist perversion of capitalism in which certain small producers subsidize, at a loss, the consumers while the big, monopolistic utilities are guaranteed profit. So, you bet ya, those people who are not doing solar themselves and are consuming electricity from the grid should pay every penny of what it takes to transition the grid from supplying electricity from fossil carbon emitting sources, just as they paid to build out and use the polluting infrastructure in the first place. Those installing solar already paid their fee upfront. The attempt to heap more fees upon them is nothing more than an attempt by utilities to cement their monopoly by suppressing competition and by consumers who are not doing solar to make the PV producers pay for their electricity.
    PNjunction wrote:
    I'm sure the motives of most are good, but I always wonder just how "green" people would be if there were NO installation incentives or subsidies, other than a reduction in their bill and the great feeling that they are reducing their own carbon footprint for the benefit of the world. Unfortunately I'm skeptical and think that for some, going green is a smokescreen and has more to do with the green in the wallet than trying to save the rainforest.
    I think it was former President Reagan who said something like, if you want something to succeed, then subsidize it. Get greed working for your project, instead of against it.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,489 admin
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    This quote?
    Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
    Ronald Reagan


    Regarding:
    These surges are indistinguishable from loads turning on and off from the perspective of the grid and power plant operator until grid-tied PV penetration becomes large.

    And what is that level of GT where this becomes a problem.... From my experience, less than 1% GT is something that can be ignored and >10% is going to be a problem.

    Also note that GT adaption is not uniform across the customer base. For example, years ago there was a higher end housing development where each home was going to have a GT array installed.

    For the utility a ~2kW load per home (average) turned into a ~10kW per home day time generation source. And the utility was going to charge the developer a huge fee to upgrade the local distribution all the way back to the substation (and beyond?). And even if the infrastructure was upgraded--There is the whole MBA question of how to "monetize" the development to be self sustaining (from a cost of capital/maintenance point of view).

    Add the whole question of a development that would normally consume 1,440 kWH per home is now (on average--~$140 to $200 per home per month revenue) to a whole development that averages ~$4.50 per home (per month) revenue with a ~5x larger infrastructure that the standard Non-GT Solar development.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SolInvictusSolInvictus Solar Expert Posts: 138
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    I think the exact quote was an old economic adage that Reagan liked to use:
    If you want more of something, subsidize it. If you want less of it, tax it.

    A housing development sounds like a newly constructed one where the utility normally charges the developer who then charges the home buyers for installing new power lines, transformers and meters. I do not see a problem in this example for who to charge. The utility claiming that it needs to upgrade "all the way back to the substation (and beyond?)" and charge the developer is a bit suspicious. Those costs are the responsibility of the utility. It sounds like the utility was artificially increasing expenses to defeat the project and suppress competition. Financially speaking, they want consumers, not producers. This is where government regulation is necessary to force these monopolies to do their part in the conversion and charge the consumers.

    Utilities buy power at a wholesale price and sell it at retail price paying their expenses and taking their profits from the difference. Net metering is a way to do it with 2 electric meters. With distributed grid-tied PV, utilities basically become the backup power supply supporting renewable energy systems. They earn their profits and maintain the system by selling the surplus PV power and backup power which will likely become expensive. They will have to be forced by regulation to conform to this program because it means a decrease in their profits and powers. It is either this or carbon sequestration which they seem more reluctant to adopt.

    A homeowner who installs a grid-tied PV system pays to install, repair and replace his system (it is a method of financing to pay the high initial cost of installing RE systems). Initially there are subsidies to encourage the build out, but those subsidies will only be available for early adopters. A renter will always be a consumer because he has no land nor roof where he can mount PV panels and therefore can not assist the build-out by providing initial capital to install a PV system. The renters and those who shun grid-tired PV will pay in their monthly bills. It is another reason why it sucks to pay rent. The consumers pay for what they use including the cost to get the power delivered to them as always. The utilities do the upgrades, manage the grid and continue to be profitable as their business shrinks. Everyone pays their part in the conversion. It is like the difference between buying a car with cash or leasing. It is a fair way of doing the conversion because everyone pays according to his means.
    BB wrote:
    And what is that level of GT where this becomes a problem.... From my experience, less than 1% GT is something that can be ignored and >10% is going to be a problem.
    Something above 10% penetration introducing problems is a very safe range. The threshold is probably around 40% penetration for technical problems. Germany is ahead of everyone else in this conversion, so we should learn from them. Their installed PV capacity should be about 50% of their maximum demand at the end of 2013. As you say they already inserted controls in the grid-tied inverters and began testing grid-tied residential battery arrays.
  • bartstopbartstop Registered Users Posts: 2
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    Don't see too much solar here in Kansas, even though this area is as blue as San Francisco. I'm sure the lack of state incentives is a big part of it.
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 850 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted
    The utilities knew all about this when they approved the specifications of grid-tied inverters years ago. They chose not to include control to limit the power during excess production.

    Right. They just didn't know how to handle it, and their initial analyses said that small amounts of uncontrolled distributed generation would not impact system stability. Thus they went the easy route. (I suspect most of us are grateful for that; imagine not allowing any grid-tie solar until all the kinks of grid-level control had been worked out.)
    They could alter the specifications today, but instead choose to hide behind bureaucratic excuses to stall, delay and defeat the competition.

    They're trying - but it's slow going. (We've worked with such companies in the past.) Utilities tend not to have the best and the brightest, so it takes them longer than it might take your typical high tech company.
    These surges are indistinguishable from loads turning on and off from the perspective of the grid and power plant operator until grid-tied PV penetration becomes large.

    Agreed - but we're reaching that point now. PV peak generation in California is now about 5% of peak load. That's reaching the point where grid stability becomes more of a problem.
  • SolInvictusSolInvictus Solar Expert Posts: 138
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    From the article in Scientific American linked in the Op:
    More than 4 percent of households have photovoltaics. Hawaii last year led the nation in the portion of its electricity that comes from solar, with 2.6 percent.
    and you are claiming 5% penetration is reaching that point now. Not even close.

    If there are 40 houses connected on a neighborhood circuit with 240 VAC, 200 A service, and 5% grid-tied PV penetration, then the power line and neighborhood transformer are rated for 1.92 MW and two of those houses have grid-tied PV. If those 2 houses have big 5 kW PV systems pointed optimally and are consuming no power (which is unlikely due to clocks, phantom loads and refrigerator/freezers), then they are outputting a mere 10 kW to the grid on a day with great insolation. That circuit rated for nearly 2 MW is dealing with a power source that is .0052 (.52%) of its rated capacity. This is tiny, so tiny that the phantom loads and refrigerator/freezers in all 40 of those unbelievably empty houses consume all of the 10 kW. If a cloud comes by decreasing the PV power output to 1 kW, it is equivalent to 6 houses turning off 1,500 W electric tea kettles simultaneously like happens in England at tea time. If the grid can not deal with this level of variation, then it is caused by some other problem unrelated to the PV systems.

    If all 40 houses have 5 kW grid-tied PV arrays, they would be outputting 200 kW to the grid, 10.4% of the rated power of the neighborhood grid. Now maybe the power company skimped on the specifications by overloading the neighborhood power grid with too many houses or assumed it unlikely that all houses would consume 48 kW simultaneously and therefore installed a neighborhood grid with lower capacity. Given a 2 times safety margin to deal with unusually bright insolation, they would have to have undersized the grid to 20 kW which would be so small it could not power the loads of 40 houses. 5% penetration is well within the noise of loads being switched on and off.

    Even this industry sponsored study, Grid Impacts and Solutions of Renewables at High Penetration Levels (Quanta Technology, Dr. Johan Enslin, no date, appears to be 2009 or more recent, PDF file) concludes 20% is the minimum on page 3:
    ... 20% penetration levels of renewable resources, it requires a dramatic change in planning and operational practices.

    In Distributed Smart Solar Technology and Distribution Grid Reliability (Ruba Amarin, Hussam Alatrash, Hisham Othman, Khalid Rustom; KACARE Meeting, May 9, 2012, PDF file), the authors polled 50 utility executives with the results:
    At what percentage penetration will the grid face challenges or require upgrade in order to handle high-penetration PV?

    % Penetration % of respondents
    Greater than 40%8%
    25-40%12%
    15-24%34%
    Less than 15%38%
    I want to read a meaningful description of what the utility executives think needs to be upgraded. The phrasing "challenges or require upgrade" is very broad and goes beyond technical issues.

    NREL PV Grid Integration (Benjamin Kroposki, May 25, 2010) on page 13 has a chart of the power consumption and production from a 2 kW grid-tied PV array on a house. The power consumption of the house varies by up to 6 kW while the PV system outputs a maximum of 1 kW to the grid after the power consumption settles down. Continuous load from the house is a little under 1 kW judging by the amount before sunrise. The PV system would have to be 5 kW to 6 kW to get variability on a partly cloudy day comparable to the load.

    There is a chart showing 30 rated kilowatts of PV on 12 houses, and another showing no noticeable effect on the ~2.5 MW feeder and ~5 MW substation from 238 kWac rated PV on 115 homes. Conclusions from page 18:
    NREL/SMUD Residential PV Research Project – after one year…
    •PV penetration levels on the feeder were no greater than 13% under lightly-loaded conditions (2.0MW) on the individual circuit and about 4.0% of the total substation transformer load
    •There was no excessive service or substation voltage due to reverse power flow from exporting PV systems
    •It was possible to see the effects of the PV systems on the voltage at the individual homes and the distribution transformers
    •PV systems have not adversely affected voltage regulation
    •The validated model will be used to determine acceptable levels of PV penetration and impacts of a variety of factors on the electric power system
    PV Penetration = (PV output (kW)) / (Feeder load (kW))
    Since 13% penetration of PV did not adversely affect voltage regulation, 5% certainly will not do it. The Hawaiian utility's argument about grid stability justifying no more grid-tied PV systems is nonsense.
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 850 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted
    From the article in Scientific American linked in the Op: . . .and you are claiming 5% penetration is reaching that point now. Not even close.

    This is why solar is a problem for utilities. Even though solar accounts for far less than 5% of the ENERGY that California uses, at peak output it generates 5% of the total POWER California uses. (Peak solar generation at the end of 2012 - 3GW. California peak load 2012 - 60GW.) This peaky nature of solar power makes it hard to manage effectively.
    If a cloud comes by decreasing the PV power output to 1 kW, it is equivalent to 6 houses turning off 1,500 W electric tea kettles simultaneously like happens in England at tea time. If the grid can not deal with this level of variation, then it is caused by some other problem unrelated to the PV systems.

    Yes. The problem is that teakettles (or in the case of the US air conditioning compressors) generally don't all come on at the same time. They present an averaged load that can be predicted fairly accurately using historical data. There is nothing synchronizing those loads and thus they appear as an aggregate average; they ramp up and down smoothly when averaged over a service area. Cloud shadows are quite effective at synchronizing solar generation startup/shutdown. For a good overview of the problem, complete with data showing the problems caused by rapid loss of generation, search for Eaton white paper WP083002EN.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,489 admin
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    Bill von Novak's reference (I think):

    http://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&allowInterrupt=1&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&Rendition=Primary&dDocName=WP083002EN

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SolInvictusSolInvictus Solar Expert Posts: 138
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted
    Even though solar accounts for far less than 5% of the ENERGY that California uses, at peak output it generates 5% of the total POWER California uses.

    The problem is that teakettles (or in the case of the US air conditioning compressors) generally don't all come on at the same time. They present an averaged load that can be predicted fairly accurately using historical data. There is nothing synchronizing those loads and thus they appear as an aggregate average; they ramp up and down smoothly when averaged over a service area. Cloud shadows are quite effective at synchronizing solar generation startup/shutdown.
    Peak power from PV in California at 5% or 10% of consumption is not enough to cause a problem. Grid operators like to complain.

    The electric tea kettles are turned on simultaneously at tea time by a large fraction of Brits causing the grid operator to complain even though they successfully deal with it every time. Tea-time Britain, BBC One:
    Power surges called the TV pickup are unique to Britain. The engineers at the National Grid control centre brace themselves each time Eastenders ends and 1.75 million kettles get switched on.

    Clouds do not cover PV panels simultaneously. For example, a cloud moving at 60 miles/hour is moving at 88 feet / second which is fast enough to cover one house within a second but not an entire neighborhood.

    As for the "Grid Support Stability for Reliable, Renewable Power" by Eaton Corporation, December 2012, we are not talking about the same things. I have been referring to residential grid-tied PV systems which are distributed, where as Eaton is referring to utility scale PV installations which a cloud can cover much more quickly because the PV panels are located closer together.
    Energy harvest from large-scale PV systems has variations that do not match up with utility loads, and energy storage devices can help match up generation to load while maximizing energy production and help maintain frequency and voltage tolerances.

    The grid is already set up to deal with these types of variations, and PV will not be a problem until the penetration is much larger, somewhere between 20% and 40%.
  • SulfurSulfur Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    when the clouds dissipate suddenly on a hot day and most every house turns on their AC unit at nearly the same time....this is a larger swing in power than 5% of houses with solar power and the solar power actually helps this demand surge from all the AC units turning on. Power plants are run by PLCs that have far better control capabilities than 30 years ago. Corporations will lie all day long to kill the competition, I don't believe the greedy Hawaii power company execs for a second.
  • mahendramahendra Solar Expert Posts: 141 ✭✭
    Re: A Solar Boom So Successful in Hawaii, It's Been Halted

    lol me too,besides aren't the grid tie inverters sate of the art from what i have read the respond really well to surges of of usage.
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