Nano/pico hydro forums?

James Wilson

I've gotten a lot of information about designing, building, and using my system from these forums and maybe even imparted a bit of help to others here, but I would like to discuss very small hydro systems.

I'm currently using a Water Baby, but the frequent bearing changes are becoming, well, unbearable. And the replacement Pelton wheel keeps losing its buckets (fins, blades, whatever they're called).

I'm wanting to replace the Water Baby, but all I see now is the Watter Buddy made by the same company. I'd really like to see some discussion about the Watter Buddy before purchasing one, but an hour of googling has revealed very little information about these in the field.

We're making 150 watts 24 hours a day when the bearings aren't going out and when our runner has all of its blades, this is a viable alternative to solar/big batteries in many places - if our creek was just a little larger we'd use two more nozzles and sell off all of the solar equipment!

Is there any interest in adding a 'Very Small Hydro" section to these forums? Anyone know of good forums out there for this topic?

Cariboocoot

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

We have discussed adding a Hydro section before. Due to the limitations of the systems (you need a viable water source), however, it hasn't been popular enough to justify the addition.

But we do not discourage any such discussion either.

James Wilson

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

Thanks Cariboocoot! Maybe a chicken and egg thing... For my location I don't have a very good source of sunlight, water, or wind. I sure have lots of wood - if only there was a more efficient way to run it into power

At any rate, in which forum should the non-discouraged hydro discussion happen?

Cariboocoot

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

Just put it under this one: General Solar Power Topics can be interpreted as "General Renewable Energy Topics".

waynefromnscanada

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

Hi James, welcome to the forum!
Don't know of any forums dedicated to little hydro systems like ours, but I do have a few years experience of trial, error and learning.
First thought was to wonder about the head your turbine has. Sounds like a fairly high head as you're losing "blades". You also mentioned using more nozzles if you had more water. Thought jumps out at me that if you added more nozzles of smaller size, you'd use the same water, but would be dividing the mechanical stress out among more blades, so each one has a lighter load. It might also reduce the stress on the bearings, as each side of the runner would have equal and opposite pressure applied, thereby canceling out any sideways pressure on the bearings.
My system?
Built my own cross flow runner and nozzle of aluminum. 13 foot head producing 160 watts after all losses, 24/7/365. The turbine is belt coupled to a modified Delco PM alternator. Been running now for over 5 years. Was having blades break every once in a while until I changed the nozzle design so it would put water on 2 to 3 blades at once instead of just one at a time, thus reducing the stress and lengthening their lives. This modification is now working fine and so far no more problems going on 2 years.
PS: As usual I'm so slow thinking and typing, that Carriboocoot has answered more than once while I was still in the process of the first one. Hahahaha

James Wilson

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

Hi Wayne,

We have about 100' of head. I've had to replace the lower bearing about once a month because it would rust and go bad - it's not the lateral thrust that's the problem. It's just design problem that lets water up into the bearing.

The Water Baby had brass runner until I didn't get to a bad bearing in time and the runner spun off. I never found it. I ordered a replacement plastic runner because the bronze was so expensive. The bronze runner never lost a blade, but their plastic blades are just too brittle.

We usually use two nozzles spaced 180 degrees from each other.


I'm curious to see if anyone out there has used a Watter Buddy and if it's more reliable than the Water Baby. That's really the only hydro out there that I know of that will work the low amount of flow we have - less than 10 gallons per minute sometimes.

Sun Dog

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

No guarantees with either, but have you tried sealed bearings or ceramic bearings?

stephendv

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

The UK Navitron forums have a hydro board with a few members there that have small hydro systems: http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/board,11.0.html

waynefromnscanada

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

Oh! Bearing failures once a month! That sucks! Sealed bearings should be a huge help.
VERY sorry to hear you've had such terrible reliability problems. Sounds like an extremely poor design when it comes to reliability.
Here's another hydro forum you may find of interest:
http://www.permies.com/forums/f-110/hydro

James Wilson

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

Yes, the design is a liittle lacking. Otherwise it's the best hydro out there for these low flow locations. Its successor, the Watter Buddy is a lot less expensive, but not as efficient.

I did try an expensive ceramic bearing, but it failed within about two hours. Next to try is sealed stainless steel bearings.

The maker said that they have people with four times the head that I have that are using the plastic runners. It will take a couple of months to have one cast. And will cost a lot.

Thanks all for the advice and the links to other forums!

Vic

Re: Nano/pico hydro forums?

Hi James,

I cannot add anything on Hydro power.

However, believe that there is a typo, or error in your Signature. Eight S-530 L-16 batteries on a 24 volt system would be two strings of batteries that are (really) 380 Ah at the 20 hr rate. This is about 760 Ah. Batteries in series retain the same Ah rating as a single battery, the voltage DOES increase, as does the power that the battery can deliver for a given DOD.

The Surrette spec for these batteries shows that they are 400 Ah at 1.280 SG electrolyte, but all of these batteries that I've seen are shipped at 1.265 SG, which would represent a 5% reduction in the stated 400 Ah C, FWIW. Not to nit-pick excessively. Vic