Battery max charge rate

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #32
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    Re: Battery max charge rate

    Meh - everybody can believe whatever they like. Don't listen to me; I'm just educated and experienced.

    And when you don't listen to me, also don't ask me to fix it when it goes wrong.
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  • mtdoc
    mtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    #33
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    Re: Battery max charge rate
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    But most any high-capacity off-grid system I've ever seen uses several parallel strings because there's a practical limit to how big they can build 2V cells. And people that have a high capacity off-grid system typically want to be able to use the inverter at full load without getting excessive voltage sag - and that takes parallel connections to do it.

    It's quite easy to build a single string 2000+ AH 48V battery bank with readily available 2 volt cells or with forklift batteries or 4000+ AH with 2 strings. If you need more capacity than that you're doing something wrong IMO.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #34
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    Re: Battery max charge rate
    mtdoc wrote: »
    It's quite easy to build a single string 2000+ AH 48V battery bank with readily available 2 volt cells or with forklift batteries or 4000+ AH with 2 strings. If you need more capacity than that you're doing something wrong IMO.

    I just want to clarify... Energy usage is a highly set of personal choices. Chris is running a large agricultural business off-the-grid--as well as his home... We speak a lot about making our homes comfortable--But running a business sometimes just needs the power that it needs--There is no magic bullet that can cut the power needs by 1/2 with different "appliances" or turning off unused lights.

    That Chris has (with lots of hard work) has figured out how to cost effectively meet his energy needs by mixing lots of solar and wind--More power to him. :D8)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #35
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    Re: Battery max charge rate
    BB. wrote: »
    I just want to clarify... Energy usage is a highly set of personal choices. Chris is running a large agricultural business off-the-grid--as well as his home... We speak a lot about making our homes comfortable--But running a business sometimes just needs the power that it needs--There is no magic bullet that can cut the power needs by 1/2 with different "appliances" or turning off unused lights.

    There is also no way on this earth (that I know of practically) to run our ag equipment with solar and wind. We use diesel power because it's all three-phase and high amp draw stuff. But it also doesn't have to run around the clock like our house and my small shop does. I got a Jacobs turbine that I rebuilt and was going to try to use it to power our equipment shop. That worked about as good as going fishing in a sieve.
    --
    Chris
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  • mtdoc
    mtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    #36
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    Re: Battery max charge rate
    BB. wrote: »
    I just want to clarify... Energy usage is a highly set of personal choices. Chris is running a large agricultural business off-the-grid--as well as his home... We speak a lot about making our homes comfortable--But running a business sometimes just needs the power that it needs--There is no magic bullet that can cut the power needs by 1/2 with different "appliances" or turning off unused lights.

    That Chris has (with lots of hard work) has figured out how to cost effectively meet his energy needs by mixing lots of solar and wind--More power to him. :D8)

    -Bill

    I agree Bill. I wasn't referring to Chris - I don't think his bank is larger than 4000 AH,is it? But his post appeared to me to be referring to someone running a large off grid home - which IMO if you can't do with 200 kWh of energy storage - then you are doing something wrong - but that's just my opinion of course. If you're talking about running an off grid industrial site - well that's a whole different issue.
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #37
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    Re: Battery max charge rate
    BB. wrote: »
    Read the rest of the article... It is not that twins are more (or less) reliable/fault tolerant that is "killing people"--It is they are more complex

    That is correct. But just like with the multi-engine aircraft being more complex and blaming that on the crash, it does not change the fact that you have 10x better chance of surviving and engine-out with a twin than you do a single. Many reasons for it. If you're IFR and lose the engine in a single you have no power, no vacuum for horizon instruments, no hydraulics - you're only going one place - down - and you can't see where you're going because you do not have VFR conditions until maybe the last 30 seconds before the crash when you get visual.

    With the twin all the above stays working. Sure you have to crank up the remaining engine, stand on the rudder and crank in some trim to make it fly. But you can get to where you're going and still complete an instrument approach and land safely.

    The 10x better chances engineered into the twin all depend on pilot competence. The NTSB reports and whatnot always focus on engine out crashes that happen at takeoff or with inexperienced pilots. You never hear about the ones that have an engine out in IFR conditions and complete a flight safely on the remaining engine(s). And few are fool hardy enough to fly singles IFR any serious amount. There is a reason that commercial airliners have multiple engines instead of one big one strapped on it. And there is also a reason why pilots with brand new ratings are not typically Pilot In Command of commercial airliners.

    All the above applies to batteries too. For someone moving to off-grid and without the experience, the best batteries are a set of T-105's. They are cheap, pretty tough, and the inexperienced can get plenty of experience on how to wreck batteries before spending big money on bigger ones :D
    --
    Chris
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #38
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    Re: Battery max charge rate
    mtdoc wrote: »
    It's quite easy to build a single string 2000+ AH 48V battery bank with readily available 2 volt cells or with forklift batteries

    If I had it to do all over again, I would've bought two forklift batteries instead of what we got. The cost was about the same but at the time we did not have a way engineered in the utility room to get a couple forklift batteries in there. So we got little ones that we could carry on a cart. But it wasn't the best way to do it. And being that we got 'em now, we're going to use 'em up.
    I agree Bill. I wasn't referring to Chris - I don't think his bank is larger than 4000 AH,is it?

    No - our bank is only 1,200 amp-hour. And I don't intend to make it any bigger because it's not practical. I'm using other means now (like diesel power) so we can Live Large. I figure we'll spend a lot less on diesel power over the long run than we would on batteries to live at the same level of Largeness :D
    --
    Chris
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #39
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    Re: Battery max charge rate
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    All the above applies to batteries too. For someone moving to off-grid and without the experience, the best batteries are a set of T-105's. They are cheap, pretty tough, and the inexperienced can get plenty of experience on how to wreck batteries before spending big money on bigger ones :D

    So true!

    ....
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #40
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    Re: Battery max charge rate

    Back on topic:

    The OP in this thread lives a jaunt east of us thru the North Woods here. He has the same problem we fought for years - no solar power in the winter so the generator runs every single day. And he doesn't have a suitable site for wind power. So I'm hoping that my experience with learning how to manage generator power can make his off-grid life more enjoyable and economical in the winter. This part of the country is not for the faint of heart if you live off-grid in the winter :cry:

    All kinds of off-grid summer lake cabins around here. Only five us (six now) that I know that do it year 'round.
    --
    Chris
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #41
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    Re: Battery max charge rate
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    If I had it to do all over again, I would've bought two forklift batteries instead of what we got. The cost was about the same but at the time we did not have a way engineered in the utility room to get a couple forklift batteries in there. So we got little ones that we could carry on a cart. But it wasn't the best way to do it. And being that we got 'em now, we're going to use 'em up.
    --
    Chris
    Have you ever thought about having some custom size Forklift batteries built ?? I am in the process of having some 15 " tall forklift cells made. I am thinking about eventually having 3-4 options in the 500 ( 19 positive plates ) to 900 amp hr ( 33 Positive plates ) for my lease program. The first ones will be 500 amp hr @ 2 V with "L" terminals on them for interconnect. The plan is to do custom trays and put 3 cells in each so they can be connected moved easier @ around 260 lb. Freight is the biggest draw back and minimum quantities do not help much. If you stick to standard heights ( 19''-30" ) they will make them any way you want them.
    .
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  • ChrisOlson
    ChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    #42
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    Re: Battery max charge rate

    I never thought about getting custom ones built. The standard ones are fine. It was the location - I needed to put my batteries in an insulated box because the battery room is not heated and I need to keep them warm in winter. Moving a forklift battery in and out to be able to service it was not in the thought process when I designed the utility room.

    You can get forklift batteries from GB Industrial for no freight charge in the US. The price on the battery is freight included, right to your door.
    --
    Chris
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #43
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    Re: Battery max charge rate
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    I never thought about getting custom ones built. The standard ones are fine. It was the location - I needed to put my batteries in an insulated box because the battery room is not heated and I need to keep them warm in winter. Moving a forklift battery in and out to be able to service it was not in the thought process when I designed the utility room.

    You can get forklift batteries from GB Industrial for no freight charge in the US. The price on the battery is freight included, right to your door.
    --
    Chris
    You have to watch GB, they have pricing, but their cells are less than the weight content of others. Just make sure you measure apples to apples.
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