Help, I need ammo.....

n4wff

Hello everyone, I have been a lurker for a while but I have never needed to post because of the excellent information already posted in the forums.

I have an XW-6048 system I installed mainly for backup power, with the thoughts of feeding any extra back to the grid. While talking to the engineer today, to set up an inspection time, he told me that his boss does not like hybrid systems. He is afraid that it will feed back on their lines. I asked about regular grid tie inverters without the battery and he said that was fine. I can show the engineer the UL 1741 spec and show him how the inverter will count down for 300 seconds, checking for grid stability. Can you help me think of anything else to put in my arsenal to convince him that this unit is safe?

Vic

Re: Help, I need ammo.....

Hi (Jack?),

Perhaps you could start by mentioning that if THEIR Grid was, much, much much MUCH more reliable, you would not need batteries for back-up power when their grid is down, etc.

Realize that probably, you have weather issues that could cause many/most of the power outages in your area. 73, Good Luck, Vic

BB.

Re: Help, I need ammo.....

I guess I would simply say it meets the same requirements as the GT Inverter from the same NRTLs...

And, you can add there is an AC transfer switch for when it does run in Off Grid mode--Also UL Listed. Just like any generator transfer switch.

-Bill

n4wff

Re: Help, I need ammo.....

Hi Vic,
Thanks for the reply. You must have looked my name up in QRZ:cool:
I can't knock the CoOp too much. The grid is pretty stable around here. Thunderstorms might knock power off for a few minutes every now and then, but I am only 90 miles from the coast, and hurricanes will blow through here every few years. The last major one knocked power off for over a week. I am on the end of the line, so I will be the last to have power restored.
There are a few folks around me with grid tied inverters, I am the first with a hybrid system. Does anyone know if there has ever been an anti-islanding failure on a UL listed system? If so, wouldn't the AC breaker see the grid as a direct short and trip? Hopefully I can convince them it is safe, worst case I guess I can run it in power shave mode and not sell back to them.

BB.

Re: Help, I need ammo.....

If you run in "shave mode"--It is still a hybrid inverter with all of the "issues" that the power guy would be concerned about (except the issue of "legally" selling power to the grid.

Anything can fail... Will it fail in the mode the power guy is worried about? I don't know. You might try calling Schneider tech support and see if you can get a letter to them calling out the UL File numbers and testing that was performed.

In the US, I am not sure that the utility can keep a hybrid inverter off of the grid if it is a listed device installed per the installation manual (in Canada and other countries--That may not be true). All they can keep you from doing is the Grid Tied back feeding of power to the utility--And if there are other customers who do that already with pure GT systems--Then that should not be an issue.

What you may be thinking of--Some utilities (such as in Eastern Europe) have claimed that somebody could buy power at night and sell it during the day with a battery based GT inverter system--So they prohibit all battery based hybrid systems because of that concern.

You might find out if that is one of his worries and tell him that the batteries cost $X,000 and have Y,YYY Cycle life--And it would cost you more to cycle the batteries (and converstion losses) than you could ever make back by brokering power.

-Bill

niel

Re: Help, I need ammo.....

actually i wouldn't ask him if that was his worry as you could be feeding him a new idea to say no with. to me it just sounds like he is worried the power generated from the inverter would backfeed the grid when the grid is down and that has never happened that i am aware of. it would only be powered on for the circuit loads it is connected to within the house. basically the guy is an idiot, but you must humor him with as much proofs as you can provide to change his mind and support from xantrex would be a very good idea.

vtmaps

Re: Help, I need ammo.....

Tell him that your system is a standard grid tie with an integrated UPS. Surely they allow UPS systems. --vtMaps

n4wff

Re: Help, I need ammo.....

Thanks everyone, I'll let you know how it goes. I emailed him the testing procedures to make sure it does switch off sell mode. BB thanks, I will call Schneider today. I'll keep you posted.

n4wff

Re: Help, I need ammo.....

Hey everyone, just wanting to let you know everything went great. I should get my buy-sell meter in a day or two. I really think the Schneider Electric name might have helped. I am not saying it is any better than Outback, Magnum, or any other, but it is a recognized brand in his field. After showing him the system, and the UL listing, he let me cycle it to make sure the backfeed to the grid shut off. We then talked a little about other solar installations he has seen, and how prices have come down a lot.
Thanks everyone.

niel

Re: Help, I need ammo.....

glad it worked out for you.:D