Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

KnowledgeSponge

Hello,

I just bought 2 - 4 foot sections of 1/0 Copper cable from the Home Depot and 4 Crimp on lugs.

The guy at home depot said I could use a punch and hammer to crimp them or solder or braze them on.

I do know that the CORRECT way is with a hydraulic crimping tool.

Cheapest one I've seen is at Harbor Freight for $53

Are there places where you can take cable to have the lugs crimped or is there another "good" and "safe"
way to crimp these ends on or do I need to bite the bullet and just buy the HF crimper?

Thx

NorthGuy

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

I don't think you can crimp it without special tool. I used this inexpensive hammer crimper. It worked very well on 4/0, #3 and #6 wires.

I don't think soldering is good because if the cable heats up it may melt.

inetdog

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

NorthGuy wrote: »

I don't think you can crimp it without special tool. I used this inexpensive hammer crimper. It worked very well on 4/0, #3 and #6 wires.

I don't think soldering is good because if the cable heats up it may melt.

Another problem with soldering, particularly for smaller wires, is that it creates a very localized transition between the part of each strand that can bend and the part that cannot, making it more likely that the cable will eventually be damaged by flexing and vibration.
If you do solder, it should only be after making a strong mechanical connection, and you should not use the very low melting point solder used for tabbing cells.

westbranch

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

check out your local welding supply house or automotive supply place that MAKES its own battery cables.

hth

Joe_B

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

westbranch wrote: »

check out your local welding supply house or automotive supply place that MAKES its own battery cables.

hth

This ^

I take mine to the welding supply and they use a hydraulic crimp tool to do it right.

Vic

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

However, I assume that the cable from HD is NOT Fine Stranded, which ALL of the Welding cable (that I've seen) is. Fine strand lugs will not work well on THHN type's usual 19 strand wire/cable.

Some here have mentioned using the HF Crimper. Most of the comments I've seen on that crimper were that it did an OK-to-good job.

Done making assumptions for now. YMMV,, Good Luck, Vic

firerescue712

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

I have the HF crimper. It will crimp up to a 2 gauge terminal. I cannot get a 1/0 terminal into the jaws. It does a good job crimping, though. On the larger cables, I use a Forney 57637 Lug Crimping Tool. It does a great job when using it along with a sledgehammer. The 2-gauge HF inverter cable is fine stranded.

KnowledgeSponge

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Alternative....

I bought some ALUMINUM Terminal Lugs from Lowes that fit up to 3/0 cable and have a heavy set screw that tightens down on the cable.

Are these ok to use or is Aluminum for lugs a no go ? (I can still return them).

mike95490

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Vic wrote: »

...Some here have mentioned using the HF Crimper. Most of the comments I've seen on that crimper were that it did an OK-to-good job....

The dies for the HF crimp tool, are marked with seemingly random numbers, and you have to test fit the dies to locate the proper pair for your wire.
Also, the lugs you get, if they are UL cert, are generally going to be tin plated, most welding lugs are plain copper. I'd avoid the aluminum ones completely.
Ebay stores, one in Canada, has a "Hydraulic Crimping Tool Kit 8 Ton Electric Wire Crimper" for about $60. much like the HF version, only it really works, and has larger dies. That's what I used for my interconnects.

KnowledgeSponge

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

mike95490 wrote: »

The dies for the HF crimp tool, are marked with seemingly random numbers, and you have to test fit the dies to locate the proper pair for your wire.
Also, the lugs you get, if they are UL cert, are generally going to be tin plated, most welding lugs are plain copper. I'd avoid the aluminum ones completely.
Ebay stores, one in Canada, has a "Hydraulic Crimping Tool Kit 8 Ton Electric Wire Crimper" for about $60. much like the HF version, only it really works, and has larger dies. That's what I used for my interconnects.

When I mentioned Aluminum lug...this is actually what I was referring too...
Do you think it would be ok to use this on my inverter 1/0 or 2/0 cables (as opposed to COPPER lugs) ?

Cariboocoot

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Do not use the aluminium lugs. Copper & aluminium do not get along without some special handling. Even aluminium on its own needs special anti-corrosive measures. These things are meant for connecting heavy aluminium wire such as is used with utility feeds.

BB.

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

My personal opinion, I would not use Aluminum lugs unless it was for temporary use. There have been just too many problems with aluminum connections over time (excluding the use of aluminum wire with properly rated and installed aluminum crimp type connectors as used on utility lines and heavy aluminum cabling).

If you must use something like these, then make sure you use the proper sealant (grease) with this lugs.

Copper versions are ~$5.40 vs $3.30 for aluminum:
Attachment not found.

I would use the copper.

-Bill

BB.

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

If you research problems with aluminum wiring on Google, you will not be near as willing to use aluminum:

http://www.inspectapedia.com/aluminum/alreduce.htm

-Bill

KnowledgeSponge

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Ok, stay with Copper Lugs.

I couldn't find COPPER lugs with a screw like the aluminum lug for any wire larger than 2 AWG.

Nothing for cable bigger than that and definitely not for 1/0, 2/0, 3/0 or 4/0

Does anyone know where they can be found (not Home Depot or Lowes, I checked).

solarix

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Hey, get over shopping at local stores to find solar stuff. The correct materials and supplies needed to do a quality solar job are not to be found there. Solar is a specialized trade and even the electrical distribution suppliers don't carry solar type stuff. You can find AC wiring and conduit etc. - but nothing on the DC side. I don't even like the cheap hardware sold at local stores. Its all cheap crap chinese steel. Buy American made hardware, you will get your money's worth. Your solar modules are warrantied to last 25 years, will probably go twice that long - use mounting and wiring to match.

BB.

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Penn-Union has some large bronze lugs (250 MMC max?). These are almost 1 inch wide--Not small (or cheap either I fear).

http://www.penn-union.com/products/c-6608-pnl.aspx

They have a wide range of non-crimp lugs in copper too:

http://www.penn-union.com/products/c-6584-mechanical-lugs-splices.aspx

This appears to be their On-Line store... $11.50 for that bronze lug. Ouch.

-Bill

Joe_B

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Here is where I get mine.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/electrical/electrical-wire-and-accessories/wiring-accessories/cable-lugs/_/Navigation?term=lugs&termca=&termpx=&sortby=webrank&sortdir=descending&searchmode=productSearch&rfqXref=&rfqKeyword=&rfqId=&rfqLineId=&r=~|categoryl1:%22601280%20Electrical%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22601355%20Electrical%20Wire%20and%20Accessories%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22601374%20Wiring%20Accessories%22|~%20~|categoryl4:%22601375%20Cable%20Lugs%22|~

KnowledgeSponge

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Thx for the replies. Good info across the board.

What about these....They are made of copper, for copper cable only)


And this Lincoln Electric Cable Crimper to crimp it?

KnowledgeSponge

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Joe_B wrote: »

Here is where I get mine.

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/electrical/electrical-wire-and-accessories/wiring-accessories/cable-lugs/_/Navigation?term=lugs&termca=&termpx=&sortby=webrank&sortdir=descending&searchmode=productSearch&rfqXref=&rfqKeyword=&rfqId=&rfqLineId=&r=~|categoryl1:%22601280%20Electrical%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22601355%20Electrical%20Wire%20and%20Accessories%22|~%20~|categoryl3:%22601374%20Wiring%20Accessories%22|~%20~|categoryl4:%22601375%20Cable%20Lugs%22|~

Those look like Thomas Betts Lugs...I get the 1/0 ones from lowes for I think about half what that website is asking ?
Lowes has them up to 3/0

etcm

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

I crimped some 1/0 copper from HD and used that same lug (from HD) yesterday-> it worked fine. I used the HF hydraulic crimper (bought using a 25% discount coupon) and I used the 0 gauge die. To get the die to fit I placed the barrel of the lug in the die, powered down until it would hold the barrel in placed (I centered the contact section of the die to center strip on the lug), placed the wire into the barrel opening, and started compression, a little slow as the lug is pretty thick. On 2 of the 4 lugs, I compressed a little, then loosened up and rotated the barrel so more of the barrel was being compressed, so as to not leave one section as uncompressed. I decided that the one-pass method produced the same lug compression so I finsihed that way. The compressed lug was too large to exit the die when complete.....until I threaded it out by moving the lug out from the barrel (wire) end to the lug attachment end.

I've used that HF crimper for MC4 connection, #8, #4, #2 lugs and I really like it. I'm going to try to fabricate/rig some metal pieces to let it be used as a mini hydraulic punch/press .
Good luck

KnowledgeSponge

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

More good info. Thank guys.

I'm also wondering....why wouldn't BRAZING be a really good solution for this?

It's FAR stronger than soldering....the wire would have to be nearly 1000 degrees before the braze would melt (everything else would already be fried)
and the conductivity would be superior to crimping.

Obviously, there must be a reason. Because I can't see why brazing the lugs to the cable wouldn't be a very good solution?

2manytoyz

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

I have the Harbor Freight crimper also. Works fine on the smaller terminals. For the larger ones, I use an anvil crimper. Bought mine from Ebay, but have since found them at Ace Hardware for about $14. I use a 5 lb mallet, and a few good smacks! The anvil will get a 'ring' sound when the terminal is fully compressed. This was a large 4/0 terminal:

KnowledgeSponge

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Thanks Robert.

Ever thought about Brazing the lugs on ?

2manytoyz

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

T&B makes compression terminals of various sizes in copper. These are available at Home Depot. Obviously, the larger the size, the higher the cost. I've used these on the battery cables for years. Be sure to torque the set screw to the recommended value. FWIW, that was a LOT tighter than I felt comfortable turning the screw. Thought it might strip, but none did, and none have ever loosened.

2manytoyz

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

KnowledgeSponge wrote: »

Thanks Robert.

Ever thought about Brazing the lugs on ?

The largest cable I've successfully soldered (not brazed) was 6 ga. I used a solder pot, and pre-tinned the wire first:





Pre-tinned the inside of the lug too:





Without a solder pot, even an iron this size wasn't large enough to get solder to wick to the inside strands:



You can also try using a torch to heat the wire/lug. The results will likely be the same. By the time the wire is hot enough to wick, the insulation will melt. Try one for yourself, CUT IT APART, look at the strands on the inside of the lug. Others folks have tried the lugs with solder already in them with similar results.

The other concern is if a terminal has any corrosion, or isn't tight, it will heat. This might melt the solder, allowing the cable to pull out. Might contact something else! A compression terminal is what the power companies use on their big power connections. Since the connection is a good mechanical bond, heat won't cause it to separate.

NorthGuy

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

2manytoyz wrote: »

The largest cable I've successfully soldered (not brazed) was 6 ga.

Wow! That's one hell of a soldering iron!

I think butane torch, which is normally used for plumbing, can be used to solder quickly before the insulation melts if you direct the flame on the lug and won't heat the wire directly. #6 wire is way thinner and should be easier to solder than 1" pipe.

I still think crimping is better.

Cariboocoot

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Brazing and soldering are similar processes. Brazing involves higher heat and different flow material. The application of higher heat and the stiffer brazing rod material would exacerbate the potential problems encountered with soldering.

A couple of us here have found the best method is crimp, solder, sleeve (with heat-shrink tubing). This does not work well with larger size wiring because of the difficulty of getting the solder to flow (heat is dissipated quickly). The contention that this process presents trouble from a wire-flexing point of view has to be mitigated by the fact it is not normal for battery wires to move anyway.

KnowledgeSponge

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Oh right.

Copper is a great conductor...or electricity AND heat ;-)
I was thinking of stripping the cable back 1 inch from the lug then attaching a heat sink to draw off the heat that was trying to travel the cable.
With Mapp gas, you can heat the cable and lug hot enough for brazing VERY quickly.

I may experiment with it but if it's been tried by many and few succeed, then my chances of success fall to probably 85% (lol)

Robert....
"TooManyToys" is never enough. Having what you need when you need it is a handyman's utopia

john p

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

DONT BRAZE THE WIRE INTO THE LUGS. It does really bad things to the properties of the wire. We did this experiment on various sized wires at work a long time ago. The results were a disaster. We were looking for a way to overcome the problem most people dont have a hydraulic lug press for wire thicker than #0.
THE ONLY way to connect lugs onto wire above #0 is with a hydraulic press. Other methods will give varying rates of success but will NEVERequal the hydraulic press method.
Soldering afterwards is a good idea as it stops corrosion between the lug and the wire strands. It will lengthen the useful life of the cable by years. use a gas torch like what plumbers use and do the heating as quickly as possible. Overheating the lug is not good it changes its conductivity. This has been proven by us at work..

KnowledgeSponge

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

john p wrote: »

DONT BRAZE THE WIRE INTO THE LUGS. It does really bad things to the properties of the wire. We did this experiment on various sized wires at work a long time ago. The results were a disaster. We were looking for a way to overcome the problem most people dont have a hydraulic lug press for wire thicker than #0.
THE ONLY way to connect lugs onto wire above #0 is with a hydraulic press. Other methods will give varying rates of success but will NEVERequal the hydraulic press method.
Soldering afterwards is a good idea as it stops corrosion between the lug and the wire strands. It will lengthen the useful life of the cable by years. use a gas torch like what plumbers use and do the heating as quickly as possible. Overheating the lug is not good it changes its conductivity. This has been proven by us at work..

So the heating increases resistance ?

john p

Re: Crimping Terminal Lugs onto 1/0, gauge copper wire

Yes overheating for a long time has an effect on the surface of the copper. It really does increase its resistance.. I cant at the momenent find the test figures,but when I do will post them.
I did a lot of testing and gave most results on the forum of using copper pipe for lug terminals.mabe someone can find it or you can and read the results.

Soldering by itself is useless on cables above #10.They MUST be crimped first.

Do NOT pre tin the wire or the lug before crimping. Not today not tomorrow .not ever

Lug presses that depend on you using a hammer.mallet,200lb rock are NOT totally successful. When you strike the lug/wire it has a small amount of "springiness"that reduces the "tightness" of the connection. Yes I know many people say it works great for them, and to a fair degree it does but its an 8 out of 10 compared to 10 out of 10 for using a hydraulic crimper.