LED lighting

HairfarmHairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
Greetings,

I wasn't sure where to post this but since all my other posts have been in the off-grid section, here goes...

I was planning to use AC powered LED light with my cabin. I realize the DC powered lights might be more efficient, but if my batteries fail or are taken out of service (for any reason) I want to still be able to use my generator (through my inverter) to keep the lights on. That said, does any one have any recommendation for AC led lighting? Looks like there're quite a few manufacturers that make dimmable bulbs. Here's one: http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202240932?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051&N=5yc1vZbmbuZ4b8Z4b8&R=202240932#.UT-U_RlAtGg

It seems to me that they can be installed in standard AC recessed ceiling cans as well.

I would need about 13 of these lights inside and outside of the cabin.

Any try AC leds?

thanks,

Comments

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    I've moved this over to Energy Use & Conservation as it could be of benefit for all types of systems.

    If you search through this section you will find numerous threads about LED bulbs and opinions there of.

    My only opinion is that they are all still too expensive where I am. :cry:
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    Was just in Home depot in Kamloops. Most prices are near $20 and Hydro has a $5 rebate right now, got some to test for EMF.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LED lighting
    Hairfarm wrote: »
    It seems to me that they can be installed in standard AC recessed ceiling cans as well.

    I definitely would not count on that. LED lamps, if they are to last, must have lots of available air flow for cooling. They don't get that hot, but the actual LEDs themselves in the lamps do not like heat, and heat often builds up in recessed and enclosed fixtures. Just something to think about.
  • monolocomonoloco Solar Expert Posts: 103 ✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    We use 100% 120v LED's in our off grid home, we have recessed cans with 4watt par-16 style bulbs, par-20 spotlights on the exterior, 4 watt GU-10 style interior spots and 60 watt equivalent regular bulbs in all our lamps. Home Depot sells a pretty comprehensive selection of Phillips LED's that are very good, I also found some nice Par-20 spots with Cree emitters at Costco that are very nice for a decent price. We have never had a problem with the 4 watt Phillips Par 16's in the recessed cans, they have been flawless for 2 years and we live in a hot climate. The initial investment was a little steep but we are very happy to be able to light our place up with quality light that doesn't draw too heavily on our system.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    Good to hear monoloco, the lower wattage ones certainly don't give off the heat the larger ones do, but personally I'd observe how warm / hot they're getting, but that's just me with my background in electronics. @ years though should be good,as by that time cheaper, probably better and definitely higher efficiency lamps would / will be available.
  • RandomJoeRandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    I have a small collection of the Phillips bulbs, several 12W "60W equiv", several 7W then 5W (gah! already changed designs and models on me!) "40W equiv" and a couple 2W candelabra style.

    One of the candelabra bulbs is on my front porch. There is a day/night sensor that theoretically can shut it off during the day, but my porch is so shaded that it usually stays on 24x7. Maybe a few hours off in early AM as the sun slants in. It's been there for over two years now, still going fine. The other one is just a bedroom light, rarely on.

    Most of my bulbs are is wide-open fixtures, but I have two of the 5W bulbs in swing-arm lamps with enclosed metal hoods on my desk. So far so good, and they never get very hot (I have often reached in and touched to check) but they do get noticeably warmer than in a wide-open fixture and lately I've noticed (or thought I did - with me, who knows for sure! :blush: ) a very slight "hot electronics" smell from the bulb I use most often. Doesn't seem to be any weaker than it has ever been - and compares fine with the one next to it - so I haven't bothered to change anything preferring to see if there's really a looming issue or just my fevered imagination... :D

    The only real issue I have with them is - as Coot mentioned - the darn things are still too expensive. I prefer the 12W models for general room lighting, and they tend to stay in the $25-30 range at best. For some reason my local Home Depot changes prices on LED bulbs frequently and wildly! I have caught them at $22 on occasion, sometimes seen them as high as $36! As long as they actually last like they claim, I suppose that's not too bad - but I am pretty cynical anymore about manufacturers' claims. Pleased to see the porch light is still doing fine after two years - I figured the meager electrical cost of running it and found break-even would be after one year so already crossed that line.
  • TiminatorTiminator Solar Expert Posts: 32
    Re: LED lighting

    As mentioned below, I think Costco has the best price around on LED's. They are starting to get a pretty decent selection too. They also have the best return policy going.
  • HairfarmHairfarm Solar Expert Posts: 225 ✭✭✭
    Re: LED lighting
    monoloco wrote: »
    We use 100% 120v LED's in our off grid home, we have recessed cans with 4watt par-16 style bulbs, par-20 spotlights on the exterior, 4 watt GU-10 style interior spots and 60 watt equivalent regular bulbs in all our lamps. Home Depot sells a pretty comprehensive selection of Phillips LED's that are very good, I also found some nice Par-20 spots with Cree emitters at Costco that are very nice for a decent price. We have never had a problem with the 4 watt Phillips Par 16's in the recessed cans, they have been flawless for 2 years and we live in a hot climate. The initial investment was a little steep but we are very happy to be able to light our place up with quality light that doesn't draw too heavily on our system.

    Question for you Monoloco,

    We have not yet put up our drywall yet. For your recessed can lighting, what type of can did you use, Halo? Commercial Electric? Another type? What type of dimmer switches, if any, did you use? Right now I'm in the research stage of led lighting and there seems to be so many choices at out local home depot. I spoke with a Halo lighting tech and they recommended using a recessed can that is not rated for IC (non-insulation contact) because it is rated for up to 230 degress. I live in a very hot area in the summer. And the recessed Halo can that is rated for IC will hold up to a lesser 194 degrees.

    I've also heard that some LEDS can flicker or shut off when hot. Anyone have that experience?

    Basically, I'm looking for "new construction? recessed can lighting for LED and compatible dimmer switches.

    thanks,

    Hairfarm
  • monolocomonoloco Solar Expert Posts: 103 ✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    We have a concrete house so I used some mini cans with a 3.75 or 4" opening, never have had a problem with heat, they stay cool to the touch. I haven't installed any dimmers yet but my wife's been bugging me to install them in a couple places.
  • feedhornfeedhorn Solar Expert Posts: 103 ✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    For 12 volt DC LED lighting:

    I've had good luck with these guys: http://jclampstand.com/

    Especially like their 72 led strips.
  • williatywilliaty Solar Expert Posts: 60 ✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    We've just begun experimenting with AC LEDs and some of the results are good, some not. The absolute best so far is the Philips 423244, which is the unit that won the L-Prize. Very, very nice light from it and 90 lumens per Watt is quite nice as well. The downside is that they're $25 delivered from Amazon. We've also got some of the new cheap CREEs that Home Depot just began selling. They're not nearly as good as the Phillips unit, but they're about $10 cheaper. They're not quite as efficient, they're not quite as bright, and they're not nearly as high of CRI. I think they'd be servicible for somewhere you didn't go very often. For instance, a porch light, the light in the pantry, basement crawlspace, etc. However, for anywhere that I'm going to spend substantial time, and for any place where I'm going to be working on things, the Philips unit is worth the extra money.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    Hey guys, can we agree on some basis for identifying these lights...

    for example I have an 8w/40w Phillips LED bulb that looks identical to the Philips 423244, probably old stock, and NOWHERE on the bulb or packaging can I see a number that vaguely resembles the one you used.

    Mine is model 9E26A | 9DCAAAA, I also have a 7W/50W Phillips Soft White 120V Par20 halogen #7WE26PAR20D-1

    So I propose we use the (running) W /(replacing) W (Maker) (Colour) (Nominal ) V (replaces) Part #
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • williatywilliaty Solar Expert Posts: 60 ✭✭
    Re: LED lighting
    westbranch wrote: »
    So I propose we use the (running) W /(replacing) W (Maker) (Colour) (Nominal ) V (replaces) Part #
    The difficulty with that is that there's often units with those specs identical that are going to produce VERY different results. The part number is really the only way to identify them. With the part number from the package/website, someone else can at least go look up the exact unit we're talking about.
  • NeedMoreSolarNeedMoreSolar Registered Users Posts: 23
    Re: LED lighting
    Hairfarm wrote: »
    Greetings,

    I wasn't sure where to post this but since all my other posts have been in the off-grid section, here goes...

    I was planning to use AC powered LED light with my cabin. I realize the DC powered lights might be more efficient, but if my batteries fail or are taken out of service (for any reason) I want to still be able to use my generator (through my inverter) to keep the lights on. That said, does any one have any recommendation for AC led lighting? Looks like there're quite a few manufacturers that make dimmable bulbs. Here's one: http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202240932?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051&N=5yc1vZbmbuZ4b8Z4b8&R=202240932#.UT-U_RlAtGg

    It seems to me that they can be installed in standard AC recessed ceiling cans as well.

    I would need about 13 of these lights inside and outside of the cabin.

    Any try AC leds?

    thanks,
    I have some of those and they are great. I have switched almost all my lighting to LED
    The other bulbs that I bought about 40 of them (6-Watt (40W) Bright )
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-A19-6-Watt-40W-Bright-White-3000K-LED-Light-Bulb-ECS-GP19-WW-40WE-120/203605735#.UdI3yIHD-Uk
    they are great in celling fans, bathrooms and they dim pretty good.

    I put these in for my fluorescent lights. (I just put two in the 4 light fixture Cool White (5800K) - Clear )
    http://store.earthled.com/products/led-fluorescent-replacement-tube#.UdI43oHD-Uk
    they are great.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: LED lighting

    Hi Hairfarm,

    For tests we have several of those exact HD LED Can Light lamps. Am running two of them in a Halo IC Can fixture, with no observable problems. Have bought several LED-compatible dimmers, but, alas, have not tested any of them yet.

    BTW, some of the very WORSE RFI generators have been the LED Edison based incandescent look-alike bulbs. Some that have the FCC logo on them and note compliance with Part 15 are the very worse NOISE/TRASH generators. For any of us for whom low TRASH emission is important, best to test them soon after purchase, and return the offenders.

    Am generally happy with the HD line-up of LED solutions.

    And NeedMore .. it is nice to see a drop in T8/T12 LED solution.

    AC LEDs should be much better in many regards than would be direct DC LEDs, due to the normal variation in nominal battery voltage through charge, discharge, EQ and temperature excursions. Different situations require different solutions, but generally, IMHO, AC for lighting is a good thing. YMMV Have Fun, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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