HELP ON upgrading to hybrid system

hackman22hackman22 Solar Expert Posts: 27
Hi All,
I have a midnight classic 200, 6-trojan t-105 6v batteries and 3 kyocera 315w panels.
Even though I'm only running a 23" tv,dishnet dvr and my laptop on standby I find myself low on power.
One cloudy day and by the next morning I'm down to 12.2v Several cloudy days and it's the 5000w generator and a powermax 75A charger. (haven't had a chance to use the charger yet)
I live on the Texas gulf coast.On the wind scale I'm at 7-7.5MPH.
I'd like to add a wind turbine.It is usually windy when it is cloudy and some nights are windy as well.
My question is what exactly do I need. I read the classic manual but still don't understand how I could connect both wind & solar.Do I use aux inputs? Can I combine the two inputs to "PV +" or maybe put in a switch.
Could use some recommendations on turbine to get & whatever else I need.
If my system should be producing more power or it seems somethings wrong I'd like to hear about that as well.
Thanks!

Comments

  • Eric LEric L Solar Expert Posts: 262 ✭✭
    Re: HELP ON upgrading to hybrid system
    dishnet dvr

    Your Classic should show what you are generating, and the total generated since you started the system. Divide this total by the number of days you've used it to see what you're producing on average. There's no way to even guess if the system is even working properly without some numbers like this one.

    Have you measured the loads?

    DVRs can be real energy pigs. Before I got rid of it, my Dish Network DVR sucked down nearly 1 KWh/day, even if it was "off". When in the "off" position, DVRs are still running and drawing power to update their programming, which involves running a hard drive.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: HELP ON upgrading to hybrid system

    Problem #1: what Eric said. Find out how much power you are using. This means Kill-A-Watt readings for the inverter output plus the inverter's consumption.

    Problem #2: three parallel strings of batteries, right? Sure it's 3 * 225 = 675 Amp hours @ 12 Volts, but are all the batteries being utilized? You should have up to 4 kW hours capacity there, but if the wiring isn't right you won't have. How have you got them wired? Should be equal lengths from each battery string to a common connection point/bus bar.

    Do not connect the turbine output to the Classic input with the PV. Get it to work with the PV first (it should). 945 Watts of panel is enough to charge those batteries in a day and should supply about 2 kW hours AC per day. The wind @ 7 mph isn't going to contribute much anyway.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: HELP ON upgrading to hybrid system

    One more question for you: Did you do a Commissioning ( EQ) charge when you put those cells into service? If not it will have a large effect on how those batts perform

    hth
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • hackman22hackman22 Solar Expert Posts: 27
    Re: HELP ON upgrading to hybrid system
    Problem #1: what Eric said. Find out how much power you are using. This means Kill-A-Watt readings for the inverter output plus the inverter's consumption.

    Problem #2: three parallel strings of batteries, right? Sure it's 3 * 225 = 675 Amp hours @ 12 Volts, but are all the batteries being utilized? You should have up to 4 kW hours capacity there, but if the wiring isn't right you won't have. How have you got them wired? Should be equal lengths from each battery string to a common connection point/bus bar.

    Do not connect the turbine output to the Classic input with the PV. Get it to work with the PV first (it should). 945 Watts of panel is enough to charge those batteries in a day and should supply about 2 kW hours AC per day. The wind @ 7 mph isn't going to contribute much anyway.

    The wind I listed is some kind of average.It blows 20+ or it doesn't blow at all.Very windy...especially when it is cloudy.
    Batteries are in series/parallel for max amp hours.
    My kill a watt says 107W 1.2A with usual stuff running.The cheapo 1500w inverter (tiger claw) is big enough for my needs. I'm not sure how much it is drawing.
    My bank started at 12.2v this morning ,pulled in 2.2 kwh (mostly cloudy)
    It will be back to 12.2V by morning.
    I think I just need to add some supplemental wind energy so I don't need the generator after several rainy days.
    I seen some diagrams of the wind generator being hooked ,thru fuse, direct to battery???
    I was thinking of a switch to change the pv input from wind to solar depending on the best option. Combining would be better if that is possible. With a limiter??
    A site with diagrams on hybrid systems would be great.I didn't find anything good in my search.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: HELP ON upgrading to hybrid system

    here is a little reading on another thread on wind power, a must read if you are serious about wind

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?17938-Blown-into-new-world-of-wind-power&p=143320#post143320
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: HELP ON upgrading to hybrid system

    The number you need from the K-A-W is the total accumulated kW hours, not Watts or Amps peak or at any given time. You must check your consumption against the battery capacity.

    It is also essential to see if the specific gravity in every battery cell is equal or if some are doing more duty than others.

    Cheap inverters tend to use more power per Watt output than good ones. It is probably MSW, which means your devices will use more power than they should and the K-A-W readings will not be accurate.

    How much is the wind turbine going to cost? Enough to buy two more panels perhaps?
    Wind is not that easy to do properly, and the return on investment is generally poor (especially for small wind). Gusting winds as you describe are definitely not desirable.

    ChrisOlsen has the best working wind system around, and if you look at his threads on how he's done it you'll see it's not cheap, easy, or for the faint of heart.
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: HELP ON upgrading to hybrid system

    How much is the wind turbine going to cost? Enough to buy two more panels perhaps?
    And a proper tower to mount it on is going to cost at least as much as the wind turbine itself, especially for a small turbine. You are generally looking at 60 feet in good clear surroundings if you want to catch anywhere near the full wind speed without turbulence. Then there are the installation costs and the regular maintenance costs, especially if you do not own all the necessary equipment to get at the turbine to work on it or to lower it (with or without a tilt-up tower.)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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