What does everyone have? Happy?

nu2solar

My husband and I are building and semi-undergound house(the front will be open). We won't have electric so we will be using a combo of solar, wind(we are on top of a mountain-fairly windy), propane and a back up generator.

We are building and designing everything ourselves. My husband is very good with all building, electrical, plumbing, designing, and engineering- pretty much anything he sets his mind to. I am just his helper. I am very thankful he can do so much but we do have a lot to learn since alternative products seem to be designed by the same guys as IBM.:roll: No offense but they do everything by the "book" and can't see any other way.

Anyway, what does everyone use and why? I am talking solar panels, what kind?, how big?, and how many? Back up generators? Wind turbines? Anyone out there do it yourself? Please share. Pictures are great.

We are just getting started. Our bridge should be in 2 weeks from now, and then grading. Then we can dig the hillside out for the house. We are hoping to be building the house within a month but we want to stock pile supplies. We have 2 trucking containers ready to fill.

Has anyone bought off the shelf? Northern? How are their products for alternative energy. We are not going cheap but we don't want to get ripped.

Thanks for all responses.

Lisa

BB.

Re: What does everyone have? Happy?

You can look around and find deals on solar equipment--but if you do that, you should still stick with "brand names" for the most part... There are a lot of other brands out there--and for the most part, they don't work well (poorly designed and assembled, poor support).

Solar panels, stick with Silicon (poly or mono-crystalline) from known vendors.

And, many times, the reason to go "by the book" is because there was a lot of learning (from mistakes) that makes the book, for the most part, right.

In the end, you are building a local power station... And the cost of the station is pretty much proportional to how much power you will need to get out of it.

So--you need to 1) figure out how much power you need (both peak--like starting a well pump, and average per day/week/month/season--lights, TV, washer, fans, hot water pump, etc.). And 2) how much sun do you have (US gov site with solar information for electrical production).

And there is 0)--conservation--using as little power as possible for your home...

Just to give you an idea--the cost of electricity for an off-grid system is probably well over $1.00 per kWhr (including battery replacement and generator fuel costs)... My home, I try to keep our power use down and average ~200-300 kWhrs per month (I don't have A/C, use Natural Gas for cooking, hot water, heating)...

If you have A/C in a warm climate--you may be using more than 1,500 kWhrs per month during the summer...

Generally, it is much easier and cheaper to aim towards the 100 kWhr per month for electrical usage (goal--you may never achieve it) for an off-grid system--it forces you to make every decision considering your electrical use (type of well pump, type of lighting, each appliance you purchase, etc.).

Looking at the solar energy prediction for eastern Tennessee (around Knoxville), you look to have OK amounts of solar power (between 3 and 5.5 kW per sq meter per day average) the whole year...

Without a whole lot more information on your power usage, it is difficult to give more exact information. But stick to major brand suppliers with good reputation and support.

-Bill

hillbilly

Re: What does everyone have? Happy?

A couple of general comments that might help keep the wheels turning in your heads :-)
Sounds like you're going totally off grid? If so my wife and I did something like what it sounds like you two are embarking on, so yes it is possible for do it yourselfers to figure out with a bit of help and lots of patience. Probably the biggest piece of advice that a lot of folks will tell you is to make sure that you plan your system and purchase components with the capabilities to expand and grow later on. Unless you've got a LOT of $$$ to throw into it to "go big" right off the bat, it'll probably be easier to start out somewhat smallish (and thus need to rely on the generator a fair bit probably), and add as funds become available, or as your needs grow.

This works VERY well in regards to solar panals, especially if you are smart and buy yourself a good MPPT charge controller right off the get go. Make certain that you will be able to utilize "step down" charging, so that you can configure your panels at a wider range of voltages (as long as they are higher than your battery voltage, and lower than the charge controllers Max Voltage). Note that most of the bigger panels (which are more economical typically) are now being made with "odd voltage" specs; these are fine for grid tie OR using a MPPT charge controller, but will not work out with a cheaper PWM type charge controller and batteries. We started with a "cheaper" small charge controller that did have the abbility to use MPPT but could NOT step down higher voltage PV to a lower voltage battery... so a year and a half later we got to buy another one (the MX60); so what at first seemed to be a much cheaper option ended up costing us about $200 more than the charger we should have got in the first place.

Inverters are also good to go ahead and spend the extra $$$ for a good pure sinewave inverter, and probably go a little large on this too. If you're running only one or two things off of an inverter, you will probably NOT need to really oversize things, but if running a house wired for AC power and using mostly "regular" appliances, then you'll want an inverter that can handle a few extra loads here and there as they pop up OR an inverter that is modular and can be paralleled with another for more power later on. There are a LOT of really nice looking inverters out there nowadays that seem to fit this bill, can't give any real "expert" advice myself do to limited personal experience but I'm sure that many here could tell you all you could ever want to know and then some if you ask more specific questions.

Batteries are the one thing that is NOT modular and easily added to, so you really need to put some very carefull thought and analysis into what your needs are now, and if they are likely to change in the next 5-10 years (or 10-20 years for some of the real industrial batteries). Try to really size this well, not HUGE as you'll need a HUGE solar aray to keep them charged or end up running your genny all the time to top them off and Equalize them. I do have to say though, that if it were me and I were guessing on this I would still err on the side of going a little on the large side (this was the one thing we did go big on, and I am now very happy that we did go as large as we did). Also when comparing batteries be sure to look into more than just the raw $/AH ratio: consider warrenties, maintinence, storage, and spacial needs, and finally, in my oppinion critically important.... WEIGHT (many are 300# or more, and some of them weigh a lot more than that).

As mentioned by Bill, sticking with name brands is a really smart move... in addition to having a better chance of recieving some help and/or warranty service, you also have a better chance at being able to add compatible components later on. This may be a bigger issue than you might think, there seem to be a lot of tech advances leading to lots of nice new stuff... hopefully the big guys out there (xantrex, outback... et, all) will try to make sure that the new stuff will behave well enough when working with older components... as for some brand new company from say China... who knows, time will tell. Also PV makers seem to be discontinuing a lot of their older panels, which in our case has brought about some challenges in terms of connecting new panels in a manner that we wont be loosing too many watts. Anyways I am beginning to ramble here, but have hopefully given you a few things to consider...

P.S. do you have any good books on solar systems yet? If not I would recomend getting some as a sort of minimum for at least learning all the terminologies, and some of the basic issues behind a well thought out and balanced system. I have one from SEI that's pretty helpull, and I see that they've just updated it and put a new one out... would probably be more than worth the cost...

P.P.S you asked about specific brands, and stores: we have Evergreen PV panels which I am very happy with (they just sit there nice and quiet, and seem to put out just as much power as everyone said they would... sometimes a tad more).
Outback Mx60 charger which we also have found VERY helpfull if a bit quirky at times (pretty minor stuff, usually just a matter of punching in a few keys to remind it what we want it to do),
Outback VFX3524... also seems great, I just flip a switch and the lights come on EVERY time :-)
We have a Trimetric which has been very helpfull in learning how to moniter the batteries and our power consumtion a bit more accurately, although I hear that there are other far more detailed monitering systems out there now (probably not something that I would bother with now that I have the Trimetric).
Oh and last but NOT least, we've purchased two items from Midnite Solar: an E-panel for mounting the inverter and charge controller that includes a disconnect and transfer switch, and we also purchased thier PV combiner box. Have to say that I've been very happy with how simple and user friendly they've made things, very well thought out and utilitarian in thier design. That combined with the service end of things (including the VERY simple and well worded instructions that come with each unit), I'd probably purchase any component that I needed from them if they made it :-)
As for NAWS, I have nothing but good stuff to say about them as well. The only real mix up that I had in dealing with them was my own slesdixya (I mean dyslexia), in which they went out of thier way to rearange the morning that my order was supposed to ship and correct my mistake (ordered the wrong size wire, which they changed for me when I called them at the absolute last second). I've delt with a few companies online and off, and thus far have been pretty fortunate, but I think overall my favorite has been NAWS. Plus, when you look at what they provide on the customer education front... this board is a GOLD MINE of helpfull information... worth going out of my way to support any company that provides that level of service as it may well save you thousands of dollars, countless headaches, and possibly worse...
Ok that's really it from me.... good luck with your new place, sounds wonderfull.

PhilS

Re: What does everyone have? Happy?

One thing I've learned that works well for us I've not seen mentioned here by anyone else. Maybe it's a bad idea and, if so, I should find out why by making this post.

Our system has evolved greatly during the last 30 years. I've found that using a combination of inverters works better than just one.

I have a 2500w inverter that powers the water pump by itself.

I have another 1000w inverter that powers "lights and entertainment".

The third 2800w provides for "everything else".

When a big load starts (propane dryer with it's glow element, water pump, coolers, whatever) there's NO dimming or surge on the electronics or lights. TVs can be especially vulnerable to that.... ours would blink off then come back on when the dryer started.

Plus, in a pinch, I could quickly swap some wires if one of my inverters were to fail. I have "ready spares" already wired in to the battery bank.

I'll monitor this thread but am sure you'll get all the info you need from this great group. If something else important occurs to me I'll mention it.

Phil

nigtomdaw

Re: What does everyone have? Happy?

Been here for a while now and think Hillbillys post is just about worth a sticky IMHO , reccomends OB,... applauds Midnight and gives NAWS a good healthy spank on the bum on thumbs up ,, from a Xantrex fan.

BB.

Re: What does everyone have? Happy?

And make sure you get some help from somebody that knows what they are doing (store, local help, free/hire)...

The second time you create and install a system is much easier (and better) than the first time you try it yourself...

That is also why many people here (including me) many times recommend a "starter" system... Perhaps a single MX-60 class Outback charge controller with appropriate panels and inverter(s) and backup power (generator) and "cheap" batteries...

The components can easily moved to a larger system an year or two down the road (especially if you stay "within" a Brand Family). About the only thing that can't be moved/added to easily is the battery bank... Once the batteries are used--mixing old and new frequently ends up with the "new batteries" not lasting much longer than the original batteries (i.e., the new batteries will not last 2+ years longer)...

Another reason why the first system you may wish to buy "cheap" training batteries.

-Bill

System2

Re: What does everyone have? Happy?

PhilS wrote: »

One thing I've learned that works well for us I've not seen mentioned here by anyone else. Maybe it's a bad idea and, if so, I should find out why by making this post.

Our system has evolved greatly during the last 30 years. I've found that using a combination of inverters works better than just one.

When a big load starts, there's NO dimming or surge on the electronics or lights.

Plus, in a pinch, I could quickly swap some wires if one of my inverters were to fail. I have "ready spares" already wired in to the battery bank.
Phil

Phil, this is also the route I took and find it great too.
Only have one inverter always on, that's a Puresine 300, for lights, heat controls, this computer, and shock of shocks, even my oil fired hot water "boiler" which heats the house in late spring, or early fall when I don't bother burning wood for heat and hot water. The REILLO BF-3 burner uses just 97 watts while running, and it doesn't often run.
The fridge and freezer have an inverter of their own that they share, with a relay that shuts down the freezer whenever the fridge wants to run, thus reducing the peak loading on the batteries. This inverter only runs when those appliances need to run. Another larger one is only on to run the water pump.
Like Phil mentioned, I'm not held hostage to one inverter, and my batteries are not loaded with the constant significant drain of running a large inverter 24/7.
Wayne