AC Breakers

Could anyone help me with the number parts for AC120v 50A breakers used in Outback FW500 AC box?
I want to purchase these breakers locally, don't want to pay extras for shipping and importing taxes as well on components that could be available here.
Thanks.

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,003 admin
    Re: AC Breakers

    Is this the breaker (note this is listed at 150 VAC--Do you need 230 VAC)?

    http://www.solar-electric.com/mneac.html

    That is the "midnite" brand and is supposed to be identical to the Outback--perhaps Midnite can tell you about a local supplier...

    Also, these appear to be DIN rail breakers--So, you might find a 50 amp DIN Rail breaker locally.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ywhicywhic Solar Expert Posts: 621 ✭✭
    Re: AC Breakers

    I asked Midnite about there breakers before and the DIN rail in there combiner boxes.. there response was theres were special to fit the breakers they have made..

    I was entertaining using a Square D/Scheneider QO breaker inside one of there combiner boxes..

    The QO's here in the USA run about $6.. so it would have been ideal.. maybe try one of them QO ones..
  • konstantin.neokonstantin.neo Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: AC Breakers

    Right on the DIN stuff. Going to print out the image of the midnite´s breakers and ask around. My guess is that the breakers are industry standard.
    The thing is that I have bought outback inverter/charger/mate but not the FW500 mounting panel and boxes because of weight constraints (I walked in the store and bought).
    Now I am battling about whether to buy the proper FW500 set or go with SquareD of some model and its breakers. But Square D boxes are not really appropriate and I am leaning towards going for FW´s.
    If I can find some breakers for the AC side here in Mexico it would be great.
    For the DC side breakers are Carling Technologies and I believe I can get some here.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: AC Breakers

    konstantin,

    According to what I've been able to find on the net, the FW AC Box does use Din-Rail AC breakers:

    http://stores.mavericksolar.com/-strse-120/OutBack-Power-FLEXware-FW500-dsh-AC/Detail.bok

    Most likley, these breakers are made by CBI -- CBI makes the OB DC Din-Rail breakers.
    However, Din Rail breakers do not seem to be in the normal distribution chain in the US, as they are often used in specialty equipment.

    SquareD QO breakers are very common here (USA), but the the SqD QOU Din-Rail breaker seems unavailable in standard distribution.

    Just my experience. Probably mostly depends upon the country that you are in at the time ... at one point believe that you were looking for OB integrators iMexico (?).

    Good Luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • ywhicywhic Solar Expert Posts: 621 ✭✭
    Re: AC Breakers

    My PV combiner box is a QO load center.. granted I had to jump the 2 legs backbone with a heavy wire.. but using the QO 10 amp breakers (which are rated to 48 VDC up to 10000 ft)

    You could use a small QO 2L70 and get 2 tandem breakers in 10 or 15 amps and get basically 4 breakers in the space of 2..

    The QO 612 I used can hold 6 breakers or 6 tandems for upto 12 circuits.. they make OUTDOOR rated versions of BOTH this and the 2L70..

  • konstantin.neokonstantin.neo Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: AC Breakers

    That is a great idea for a combiner box.
    Are there breakers that can handle 150v DC @10A?
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: AC Breakers
    That is a great idea for a combiner box.
    Are there breakers that can handle 150v DC @10A?
    Those QO load centers and breakers are OK in a 12 or 24 volt nominal system. Midnite has some very reasonable priced solution for 150 v DC applications. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: AC Breakers

    Couple of things on QU Breakers in DC service.
    This is a cute concept, especially since these breakers and load centers are in mass distribution and available locally.

    This subject has been discussed here in detail. Did poke around on the Schneider site in the past looking for data on the QO breaker DC ratings, in replying to one of these threads. From distant memory, believe that the Tandem breakers lack a DC rating, AND, it is just me, but you could not pay me enough to make me use any of those chintzy Tandems for AC or DC.

    Here is one old Thread on QOs:
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?6024-Circuit-Breakers-Fuses-Disconnects-Oh-My

    Agree with vt, MidNite has an ever expanding line of DC Breakers. They are very inexpensive. And are designed, manufactured, and tested to be used in DC circuits. MN makes a number of boxes to accept their DC breakers in many styles. All of these are ETL or UL rated. The Combiner DIN-Rain breakers go for about $9.00 from our generous host of this site:
    http://www.solar-electric.com/pvaranddcrab.html

    DC can be very wicked. IMHO it is good to respect DC and all circuits that carry DC currents. Interrupting DC current flow is challenging, as quenching a DC arc can damage the guts of breakers. An unquenched arc can easily be sustained for a long time, until something burns "clear". This process can be messy. ... and so on.

    ENUF for now. Good Luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 3,185 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: AC Breakers

    Just bent back to the QO Breaker Data Sheet:
    http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Circuit%20Protection/Miniature%20Circuit%20Breakers/QO-QOB%20Circuit%20Breakers/0730CT9801R108.pdf

    It would APPEAR that the QO breaker is rated for 48 VDC Max in breakers ranging from 10-70 Amps rated currrent. HOWEVER there is that pesky Note 2 for Table 1. Which says that the 10 A QO breaker is NOT rated for DC.

    It is quite possible that these specs drift over a period of time. What was rated yesterday, may not have the same spec tomorrow.

    FWIW, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • ywhicywhic Solar Expert Posts: 621 ✭✭
    Re: AC Breakers
    Vic wrote: »
    Just bent back to the QO Breaker Data Sheet:
    http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Circuit%20Protection/Miniature%20Circuit%20Breakers/QO-QOB%20Circuit%20Breakers/0730CT9801R108.pdf

    It would APPEAR that the QO breaker is rated for 48 VDC Max in breakers ranging from 10-70 Amps rated currrent. HOWEVER there is that pesky Note 2 for Table 1. Which says that the 10 A QO breaker is NOT rated for DC.

    It is quite possible that these specs drift over a period of time. What was rated yesterday, may not have the same spec tomorrow.

    FWIW, Vic

    Well that stinks (if its true on the 10 QO)..

    I have 5 QO 10 amps and 1 QO 15 amp breaker in my box.. I could go grab QO 15's from HD for $6 each..

    Heres a picture of the internal wiring of the box. refer to the video for explanation on jumping the positive 'backbones'

    combinerusage.JPG

    I did add an external 60 amp breaker on the outside of the box before heading to the charge controller.. I'm limiting my combiner to about 45 amps anyway with my panel setup..

    The Midnite MNPV3 or MNPV6 are a great value.. and the breakers at $12-15 each isn't a bad deal at all for peace of mind knowing thats what THEY were designed for..

    The irony is some solar retailers are selling this QO box for like $50-60 empty..
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: AC Breakers
    Vic wrote: »
    It is quite possible that these specs drift over a period of time. What was rated yesterday, may not have the same spec tomorrow.
    FWIW, Vic

    Ranging from "The standard changed and we do not meet it anymore" through "Our manufacturing changed and we don't meet the standard anymore" to "We finally tested it properly and determined that it never met the standard in the first place." :-)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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