What type of PV's are used in this picture?

I am interested in finding out if you need special PV'S to cope with the concerntrated light. Where can I buy them from? Not the frame, just the PV itself.
pvs.jpg 204.6K

Comments

  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?

    Those are flood lights that make the array work 24/7. I think they invented perpetual motion!

    Icarus
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?
    Benny wrote: »
    if you need special PV'S to cope with the concerntrated light.

    Concentrator PV's need a lot of cooling, otherwise they will burn up in moments.
    Only used in specialty locations, no mass production of them.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?
    Those are flood lights that make the array work 24/7. I think they invented perpetual motion!
    Oh I see this is a hang it on the new guy thing. Send me out for a "sky hook" or a "long wait", etc :blush:
    Concentrator PV's need a lot of cooling, otherwise they will burn up in moments.
    Only used in specialty locations, no mass production of them.
    Mike, is there any where that you know of that I can read some more details about these? Thanks for your sensible answer :)
  • autoxsteveautoxsteve Solar Expert Posts: 114 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?

    I am not sure but I bet they are expensive. You need trackers for the mirrors as well as cooling that Mike refers to.

    Complexity factor will also drive the costs up.

    Are you just curious or if not, please share your devious plan with us!
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,747 admin
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?

    From what I remember, about 10x magnification was the typical maximum for using concentrated solar. Heat, tracking, cleaning are the typical issues with this system.

    Besides mirrors, thee are also various lens type projects out there too...

    Also of the focused/concentrator systems that are being designed used currently seem to be of the thermal type... Integrated Sterling engines/boilers, creating convection winds (solar tower with wind turbine at bottom, conventional heat->steam->turbine type systems of with various detail differences, etc.

    In the end, it seems, that small installations just are not worth the costs over simple flat panel solar PV arrays. And for larger systems, Thermal powered collectors are just more efficient (and cheaper) at collecting solar power.

    Do you have some specialized application that you are aiming at?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?

    Thanks for the links Mike, that had some interesting reading.
    Do you have some specialized application that you are aiming at?
    Are you just curious or if not, please share your devious plan with us!
    Well the devious plan is to build my own.
    My theory is that if a conventional PV panel 1 square m panel costs (X) then a 4x4 square m set up costs 16 x (X). We all know that Mirrors cost a heap less than PV panels. Therefore it would be better to build a concentration setup.

    The setup in the picture is essentially the same as a dish except it is flatter, does not need the same pole mounting and would be much more cost efficient.
    As for tracking the sun, you still only need one drive motor that would align ALL the mirrors with push rods.
    I am thinking to make a tracker based on a clock mechanism rather than a light follower. With a PIC chip you could also allow for seasonal changes. With clock accuracy these days been a loss of a second every 100 years, you would have a dead accurate tracking.

    I imagine all the mirrors are originally aligned using a laser pointer. Once aligned they will move in concert with each other.

    I want to build a 8kW system for under 10,000 bucks. I like my inneficient incandescent bulbs and plasma TV etc, and I want to enjoy them without guilt.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?
    Benny wrote: »
    Well the devious plan is to build my own.

    I'd suggest the parabolic "trough" with a single row of cooled PV's would be the way to go.

    Servos, pushrods, and trackers, all seem to break down, bend, collect grit.......

    Heck, cooling the array, so it won't become your personal silicon smelter furnace, will be interesting to see.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?
    In the end, it seems, that small installations just are not worth the costs over simple flat panel solar PV arrays. And for larger systems, Thermal powered collectors are just more efficient (and cheaper) at collecting solar power.
    Is there any comparison charts between a large PV setup VS a Thermal setup?

    Maybe thats the way to go?

    Maybe I should put one of these on my roof

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTQ4cFn5sXs
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,747 admin
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?

    Those tracking Sterling engine types are something like 25kW... A bit big for my house and they plan on cleaning the mirrors 2x per month.

    There have been a lot of small prototype solar PV systems set up and grants applied for (to the state of California)--but many of these seem to be aimed at getting grant monies and to help prevent the state from pushing utility companies to further develop Solar RE generation capacity (i.e., Utility XY&Z has project ABC on the books for x years out, just on the edge of meeting the requirements for the last law passed).

    Anything can be done--but is it really practical and economic for somebody's backyard... Probably not yet.

    Grid Tied Solar PV + Rebates with escalating rates are not too bad right now (for southwestern US)... Or off-grid systems where it would cost big $$$ to run grid power is also economically viable today. Other places---????

    It is pretty easy to figure the economic... Take the total capital costs + maintenance + supplies for 20 years / (kWhr/Year * 20 years) = $/kWhr...

    Right now, if you are in the range of $0.10-$0.30 per kWhr, you are very competitive with grid power...

    My 3kW fixed solar PV grid tie system is around $0.25 per kWhr (based on 25 year life and $29k retail price installed--including labor, permits, etc., and ~4,800 kWhrs per year). The price after rebates and tax breaks, somewhere around $0.14-$0.17 per kWhr. My price for 300 kWhrs per month--$0.115 per kWhr.

    If I used >1,000 kWhrs per month, I would be paying around $0.30 per kWhr...

    Your mileage may vary.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: What type of PV's are used in this picture?

    if you do this you will find that the added costs infered from tracking, cooling, and concentrating in addition to the premature burnout of the pvs will be just as high or higher than individual pvs fixed south with seasonal adjustments. that's why you aren't seeing this done except in some cases that warrant it.
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