My System - Thomas

My system as begun.
3 40 watt power-up bsp-40
1 currently installed,not generating, air-x 12 land
1000watt grid tie inverter
1-35 ahr agm battery
40/12 20/24 atkinson pwm charger
all grounded in line shunt to a shielded ground diode to 10 feet(copper rod)5 feet shielding to the clay level.
performance on installed panels this summer was in excess of 10-13 amps charging and 7-10 amps running, I was so enthusiastic and encouraged I am building a panel with 36 6x6 cells at 3.8watts ea. at 8A, for 136watts. Total 120+136 next summer may yeild equivilantcies to free air conditioning levels, simply using kentucky windage and not a TED device.Anyway I need help w'm'air-x 12 land wind generator.(out of warranty)
Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

Comments

  • ThomasThomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    My System

    my system as begun.
    120 watts power-up panels
    100 watt grid tie inverter
    1 installed not yet generating air x 12 land wind generator
    an atkinson photovoltaic 12/40 24/20 charger
    grounded w /shunt to a shielded 10 foot copper rod, shielding in form of pvc pipe to 5' at clay level.
    10-13 charging amps for 4 hours
    7-10 running amps 5-6 hours
    in the making 136 watts
    totally w/ area isolation factor should be real good next summer.
    I also have 3 heliatos hot water panels I am very pleased with.
    help w/air-x.....
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: My System

    Might want to check this thread on the Air X - - - -
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=10682&page=3
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: My System - Thomas

    Thomas;

    Looking over your equipment list there are a few things that don't make sense.
    Apparently your solar panel array is three 40 Watt panels for a total of 120 Watts?
    I've never heard of a 1000 Watt grid tie inverter. What brand/model is this?
    The other thing is: that small of an array and a 35 Amp hour battery do not fit with any known grid-tie system. This is a bit worrying, as it sounds like you've connected an off-grid inverter to the grid somehow.

    Furthermore, it is not legal to have a grid-tie system that is not permitted, inspected, and approved by the local authorities & utility.

    Adding 136 Watt panel to 120 Watts will give you 256 Watts. This is not going to run any known air conditioner unit.

    I'm not surprised your AirX doesn't work. There are some folks here who have managed to get power out of them. The first step is to make sure you actually have the wind speed needed to spin the blades. It takes more than you might think.
  • ThomasThomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: My System - Thomas

    Hi,
    I was under the impression that a 35ahr battery was small for overnight use. Daily recharge(**goal**)
    My grid tie inverter has been modified from China via e-bay for utility box connection instaed of outlet connection.
    I was very impressed that 120 watts was providing average of 9 working amps.
    I am looking to double that and cut my bill down even more , even if I can not precicely figure the load displacement by appliance. The monetary displacement is good. Which is the goal in endevors such as this, people tend to get distracted, as I am now waiting for help with the real issue, tha Air-x I am stubbornly refusing to gut out and stick a rectifier in, is there a considerable difference in observed spinning free( without stator wires connected)and at load?
    Does the air-x regulate without the light flashing? i.e. dead calm for days, all lights on generator out. Panels charging, battery full, generator starts spinning..is the battery charged to the regulator, if so it is not blinking yet.
    distraction. it does not need to charge the battery. however my air-x does not charge when it needs to still. Does any one know exactly how the regulator needs the stator wires? I have identified the beginning and end of the three phases.ohm
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,156 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: My System - Thomas

    Thomas,

    May I humbly suggest, that until you get some better basic knowledge, you unplug anything and everything that is connected to the grid. Plugging in no listed panels, inverters etc and calling the "grid tie" is not only not safe, it is not legal, and puts you at great risk, both physically and financially.

    Tony
  • ThomasThomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: My System - Thomas

    Icarius~
    I have taken all of the precautions and followed ul guidelines and reccomendations. My grid-tie inverter may be from another country but it is all I can afford and the only modification it needed was larger wires from the board to the box instead of into a wall outlet. To me plugging into an outlet instead of tapping competively alongside at the service point outside seemed crazy. Anyway your concern is appropriate however things have been going well with the solar panel sourcing anyway.(so far a small reduction in my electric utility bill) Do you know how to connect the stator wires in the air-x to the rectifier?
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: My System - Thomas

    Thomas, don't be surprised if the experts, not wanting to be a part of getting you into deeper trouble, just up and walk away from this one. Just a heads up.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,156 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: My System - Thomas

    I know of no legal plug in grid tie inverter. Generally, if you modify any device you defeat it's listing. All those cheap plug inverters are not legal in the US.

    I would posit that if you get the AirX you are running an even higher risk due to the wide variations of power out put from a small wind turbine. While this hardware may be all you can afford, I would offer two suggestions. First, you save your money and build a real grid tie system. (or you play with the technology as a starter off grid hobby) or and more likely more cost effective, you spend some time chasing conservation. A 100 watt panel might possibly generate ~6-800 watt hours/day depending on your location. That power is worth ~ $.05-$.10 per day. I would argue that nearly any house can save that much by doing the small things that come at nearly no cost,, unplugging power bricks, turning off computers, going to laptops/tablet computers instead of desk machines, using CFLs, turning off unneeded lights, adding insulation, using low flow shower heads, and on and on and on.

    Tony.
  • DavidOHDavidOH Solar Expert Posts: 109 ✭✭✭
    Re: My System - Thomas
    not wanting to be a part of getting you into deeper trouble, just up and walk away from this one.

    Ditto on that one.
    Does the power company know you have a "grid tie" system? :confused:
  • ThomasThomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: My System - Thomas

    Well I need professional help and advise on a legal level, so how do I wire the stator wires to the rectifier is the issue, not the generator /panels which are right next to the meter . There has been no problems thus far with my 12volt system, and if the experts officially disclaim me, sobeit, I will still pursue this solution with un professional hobbyists if ethics disallows professional assistance for my situation. Anyway I simply proffered my system so people'd be a liitle familiar with my question, I really did not plan on defending myself.
    I cant find any good info about re connecting the stator wires correctly
    I do not know why it didn't work when I installed it only it was stored for a long time.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: My System - Thomas
    Thomas wrote: »
    Well I need professional help and advise on a legal level, so how do I wire the stator wires to the rectifier is the issue, not the generator /panels which are right next to the meter . There has been no problems thus far with my 12volt system, and if the experts officially disclaim me, sobeit, I will still pursue this solution with un professional hobbyists if ethics disallows professional assistance for my situation. Anyway I simply proffered my system so people'd be a liitle familiar with my question, I really did not plan on defending myself.
    I cant find any good info about re connecting the stator wires correctly
    I do not know why it didn't work when I installed it only it was stored for a long time.

    I believe one of the other threads you started show the correct way to connect the stator up and a diode bridge for the AC to DC step.
  • ThomasThomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    My 12 volt grid tie system

    is doing just fine. It is all clean, neat , presentable, insulated, fireproofed, weather proofed, climate controlled, metered, and getting cold. The connections are anti-corrosion greased and tight, I had to use two metals at some junctures.(tin/copper)I only use the it when the suns' out because the battery is too small for anything but light ballast/capacitance function. I can get some time after-hours with it but it really is not worth mentioning(at 5A). I get such a percent of my bill eliminated because I do practice energy conservation and my load is low, and load type/ "carbon footprint" whatever that really is, I don't do resistive loads!!!!
    Save a water heater on a timer. On a separate circuit from the grid tie inverter, just so they do not get their wires crossed. Thankyou for your time
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • ThomasThomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Actually grid tied and controlled/governed

    The moderator put the post here, now I can,t walk away.
    the inverter will not work without the grid anyway, working into night-time issues/batteries/charge-time/ time on inverter etc. when I get done tring to fix this air-x without putting in a simple rectifier.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Actually grid tied and controlled/governed

    How do you plan to fix the air-X which produces wild AC via its alternator stator without rectifying to DC?
  • ThomasThomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: Actually grid tied and controlled/governed

    I do not intend to do anything like that!!! I am tring to rectify it, I would have to commandeer the green ground wire for to get the output down the pole. The short-cut answer would be to remove the air-x regulator/rectifier and put a simple rectifier in. I have the document about the stator wire connection, I can't get it to the posts...
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • ThomasThomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: My System - Thomas

    No I have not found a way to connect it yet, there have been several sites on stators/motors/wiring that I have tried all of them at least once to completion. I am very frustrated at this endevor allways changing, up the pole disassemble, correct by whatever page reference, re assemble back down the pole , still no light in the wind or electricity for by battery/inverter. SIMPLY FRUSTRATED, that's all really.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: My System - Thomas

    As with the AirX threads, I have merged all those pertaining to the rest of Thomas's system in to one thread and placed it here under grid-tie as he says it is.
  • ThomasThomas Solar Expert Posts: 291
    Re: My System - Thomas

    Thanks again, I only regret no solution was found to the problem immediatly, These are primarily and significantly deviced of/for and about information. Oh Well. I will check for responses. I think I have a better Idea how this forum stuff works, you all are lucky, you were my first>
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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