Battery Box Location

Coach DadCoach Dad Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭
Hi All
I've been reading this forum and learning a lot. My thanks to all who contribute.

I'm planning to install an off-grid PV system for my cabin next spring. My cabin is located in Northern New York (Adirondack Park) where the temperatures range from +102F in the summer to -20F in the winter.
I normally use the cabin on weekends only (Arrive on Friday Night and leave Sunday afternoon) but I do spend an occasional week straight up there.

Regarding my PV system: My preliminary thoughts is that I'd go with about 500 watts of PV panels charging six - 110 AH AGM batteries set up as a 24 volt system. (I'm still in the planning stage)

The cabin faces south and I will be building a 24ft by 8ft covered porch in the front of the cabin this summer. The PV panels will be mounted on the roof above the porch roof. I was thinking of using some of the space under the porch as my battery box.

Since the physical size of a Size 31 battery is about 13"L x 7"W x 10" H,,, I was thinking that I could fit 12 of them between two joists that are 16" on center.(the 6 batteries I plan to use and future expansion). I would make those joists more like 20" on center for the extra room and I have about a 20 inches of height to play with.
Access to the battery box would be from the porch floor.. That section of floor would be removable (perhaps hinged)
The battery box floor would be stone, patio blocks PT plywood, rigid insulation, and another layer of pt plywood. The joists would be lined with rigid insulation and the box roof would be rigid insulation covered by PT plywood.
Vent inlet will be low near the cabin, vent outlet will be farthest away from the cabin near the top.

Does the battery box location and construction sound feasible?
Are there any safety hazards to consider? Is it too close to the living area? Can there be an explosion if someone walks by the vent while smoking? Will the -20F temps destroy the batteries in the winter?

Comments

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    welcome,
    agms do not normally gas so why not put them inside the cabin where they will be better protected? also, note that we recommend a charge rate of between 5% and 13% and by the looks of things you are about 5%.

    edited to add: the charge rate may suffice for you in the capacity you presently plan to use it in based on a post later in this thread that the low charge % will work fine for you. this is of course with a proper system setup with no loads on it during charging that would subtract from the batteries from getting all of the charge current. lay out the wiring and arrange the pvs in such as way as to allow for a bit of future expansion of the pv wattage to account for future needs. pvs can then be added without need to change the wiring (or change it much) and controller. i say this to you because as many offgrid people here can reaffirm, electrical needs always go up. do note it is not recommended to add batteries years down the road as the newer batteries would tend to be dragged down to the same used state as the older batteries.
  • SlappySlappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    on the vent ducks, put some type of screen or filter to keep the critters out of the box. :D
  • Coach DadCoach Dad Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    Are you sure that I can store the AGM batteries inside the cabin?
    That was my first thought but someone else stated that they gas while they are charging.

    Can you tell me how to calculate the charge rate? Six- 110AH batteries * 12V = 7920 Watt Hrs... 5% of that is 396 Watts... I was planning to use 500 watts of PV... Did I miss something?
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    AGM's do not gas when charging. If an AGM vents it means something has gone wrong. FLA's do. Even so, FLA's usually don't produce enough gas to be a real hazard unless your cabin is really, really tight. It's fairly easy to run a vent for them in most cases. Besides which, neither will freeze in cold temps if kept charged.

    Before you go spending any money can we take a holistic approach to this? How much power in Watt hours do you expect you need per day? That's a very important number for determining the proper size battery bank. It is also important to know how many Watts you'll need available at any one time so that you can size the inverter (unless this will be an all DC system).

    A few of us here have been down the "power-at-remote-cabin" road. You can learn from our mistakes; we offer them freely. :p

    The charge rate, btw, is based on the battery bank's total Amp hour rating @ the "20 hour" rate. Always a good read, the Battery FAQ's: http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
  • SCharlesSCharles Solar Expert Posts: 123 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    In my cabin, the batteries are indoors in the pantry. They are not AGMs but regular forklift lead acid batteries. They have been there for over 20 yr. with no problems. This keeps the temperature moderated as the indoors never gets as cold as outdoors. Plus, it is easier to check on them rather than dealing with under the house.
  • Coach DadCoach Dad Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    WOW--- I'm glad I asked... That settles it. The AGM batteries will be in the cabin. I have a perfect spot for them under the staris that go to the second floor.. Thank you.

    Cariboocoot- Thank you for your offer to help...
    I'm estimating that I will use 1400 watts per day when I'm there on weekends... My maxload at any time will be about 900 watts...
    The 900 watts will be in the morning when my coffee maker is running..:blush: I know that you guys hate the thought of a coffee maker but I've tried the stove top perking stlye coffee and I can't stand it... I need good coffee to start my day.

    In reading thourgh the battery FAQ link.. I see that is states..
    "Gelled cells should be charged at no more than the C/20 rate, or 5% of their amp-hour capacity."
    So if I have Six- 110AH batteries * 12V = 7920 Watt Hrs... 5% of that is 396 Watts... Does this mean that my PV wattage needs to be limited to 396?...
    I thought that 500 would work due to losses and the rating is under idea conditions... I don't quite understand?
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    Coach Dad;

    An AGM battery is not a gel cell. AGM's will take quite a lot of current. What they don't like is Voltage out of spec, so make sure that is in-line with manufacturer's recommendations. On a 12 Volt system this is usually 14.2 Volts, but it's always best to get the actual number from the source; they're expensive items and if the valve blows due to overcharging they become expensive scrap.

    If you are going to run 900 Watt heating elements (:grr ) you really should increase your system Voltage to 24. We've just had a go-round about this exact issue with another poster here: http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=11791
    The short version is the very high current involved with supply that amount of power long enough to boil a pot of coffee is very difficult to handle. Wire sizes have to be large, connections have to be perfect, and the battery has to be substantial.

    Which brings up the next potential trouble spot: wiring six 12 Volt batteries in parallel. Any number over two in parallel and you're asking for imbalanced current through them. That means one may be doing most of the work while the others loaf, which is not good for any of them. To do that wiring right you'd need bus bars for positive and negative, equal length wires from each battery to those bars, and separate fuses per battery. It gets a bit complicated, eh?

    The charge current calculation goes like this:
    660 Amp hours of 12 Volt battery would be charged at 66 Amps (right there is another problem) for 10% of the total capacity @ 14.2 Volts (charging Voltage mentioned above). That's 937 Watts. Since panels don't put out their rated Watts all the time, some derating has to be factored in. Usually 77%, so the actual array size would be 1217 Watts - rounded up to whatever panels fit the bill.

    You could round down if you want to sacrifice a bit of charge ability, but the charge rate minimum is 5% net, not gross; you have to remember that loads may be drawing on the system while charging which means you don't get as much current actually going in to the batteries as you see coming out of the charge controller. I say "shoot for 10% and hope you get 5%), but AGM's can take the full 13% if available.

    Which brings us to that other problem mentioned parenthetically above: 66 Amps is above what most charge controllers can handle. An Outback FM80 will do it, but few others will. If you up the system Voltage to 24 the charge current will drop to 33 (for the same amount of power in Watts) and you can select from a broader range of controllers which may suit the budget better.

    One last note: there should be no problem meeting your 1400 Watt hours daily from a 1200+ Watt array and 660 Amp hours of battery. In fact you could get by with much less battery and panel than that, depending on how deep a depth of discharge you're comfortable with.

    I think that's a long enough post for now; people might mistake me for Bill. :p
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,624 admin
    Re: Battery Box Location

    GEL batteries are completely different and have the recommendation for slow charging.

    AGMs, on the other hand, are very rugged regarding charging current. Some are rated to C/1 or higher (check specifications).

    AGMs are almost the perfect lead acid battery. Except that they do not like to be over charged/over voltaged (and like all lead acid batteries, they do not like going below 20% state of charge ever, or being stored below ~75% state of charge for days/weeks/months--they will sulfate). They are also less susceptible to freeze damaged (should not split case--do not charge if frozen--thaw first).

    AGMs are usually very expensive (2x or more) vs lead acid. If this is your first battery bank--you may want to try a less expensive battery bank first.

    Note, energy used per day is in Watt*Hours (miles driven, gallons pumped). Watts is a rate (like miles per hour or gallons per minute).

    Normally, to calculate the solar array's 5% rate of charge:
    • 6x110 AH battery bank * 14.5 volts charging * 1/0.77 panel+charger * 0.05 rate of charge = 621 Watt minimum array
    Where is the cabin and what is the weather like?

    Some areas in NY have as little as 2 hours of sun in winter and only 4-5 hours of sun for 7 months of the year. The "average" maximum amount of useful AC power per day:
    • 621 watt array * 2 hours of sun * 0.59 derating (for AGM) = 733 WH per day deep winter
    • 621 watt array * 4 hours of sun * 0.59 derating (for AGM) = 1,465 WH per day or better 7 months of the year
    Anyway--my guesses.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    Adirondacks in Winter: if he goes there then it will probably be by snowmobile. :D
    Bill's point is well taken, and I also know from experience that sun is a rare commodity in a NY Winter. Cold isn't, however, and neither is snow. So the system would probably float through the Winter without any trouble. Using it then could be problematic, however.
  • Coach DadCoach Dad Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    First of all... THANK YOU for all the advice. You guys are great.

    second... I was planning on using a 24 volt system all along (please see my original post in this thread).. Perhaps I should have restated that in my last post.

    third... YES I plan to use AGM batteries the Gel thing was my mistake... SORRY.

    Question for you...So if I need 660ah of batteries, and need to limit the bank to 2 parallel branches, that would make it a 36 volt system...
    I don't remember seeing 36 volt components out there such as inverters and charge controllers. Is a 36 volt system practical of should I stick with 24 volts and 3 parallel branches?

    Yes.. you are right we get tons of snow up there and I have to walk in using snowshoes pulling a sled...
    I would only use the system once a month during the winter and I have a 10kw generator that I can use to charge the batteries.

    I haven't mentioned the generator until now... I'm currently using the generator to power the entire cabin.
    Once I go solar, I will still use the generator to run the 220v well pump, and help charge the batteries if I don't have enough sun or if I extended my stay beyond the weekend that I'm designing the PV system to handle...

    Another question... Is it feasible to use up the AGM battery bank to 50% DOD on the weekend and allow the PV's to SLOOOOOWLY charge the batteries from Monday through Friday? So even if I only get 3 hours of sun per day, and don't use any power, it would give me 15 hours of charging time??? Or am I totally off the mark????
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,624 admin
    Re: Battery Box Location

    [QUOTE=Coach Dad;88907second... I was planning on using a 24 volt system all along (please see my original post in this thread).. Perhaps I should have restated that in my last post.[/QUOTE]
    Not a problem--To clarify--Are you looking at a 660 AH 24 volt battery bank (12x110AH batteries in series parallel?).
    third... YES I plan to use AGM batteries the Gel thing was my mistake... SORRY.
    Been there, done that. :roll::cry:
    Question for you...So if I need 660ah of batteries, and need to limit the bank to 2 parallel branches, that would make it a 36 volt system...
    I don't remember seeing 36 volt components out there such as inverters and charge controllers. Is a 36 volt system practical of should I stick with 24 volts and 3 parallel branches?
    Don't go with 36 volt battery bank unless you have specific loads/inverters or such that you need to power. In general, 36 volt is rare and not well supported for Solar PV systems (some of the more expensive MPPT charge controllers can do 36 volt banks).
    I would only use the system once a month during the winter and I have a 10kw generator that I can use to charge the batteries.

    I haven't mentioned the generator until now... I'm currently using the generator to power the entire cabin.
    Once I go solar, I will still use the generator to run the 220v well pump, and help charge the batteries if I don't have enough sun or if I extended my stay beyond the weekend that I'm designing the PV system to handle...
    A 10kW genset is pretty good sized for charging a smaller battery bank... Ideally, you would want to load the genset to at least 50% of rated load for good fuel consumption (and for diesels, 40-50-60% for clean burning). If you load the genset 10-20% of rated load, they tend to be really fuel inefficient.

    If you end up using a genset to bulk up your bank--you will want to review loading and possibly consider using a smaller genset just for battery charging/bad weather cabin operations (assuming that your average cabin loads are not very large).
    Another question... Is it feasible to use up the AGM battery bank to 50% DOD on the weekend and allow the PV's to SLOOOOOWLY charge the batteries from Monday through Friday? So even if I only get 3 hours of sun per day, and don't use any power, it would give me 15 hours of charging time??? Or am I totally off the mark????

    The problem is that lead acid batteries really do not like to spend much time below ~75% state of charge... Below that, the "fluffy" sulfates begin to crystallize. The longer the batteries spend below 75% state of charge (days, weeks, months) the more battery capacity is lost to the sulfate crystallization.

    Your better operating procedure would be to startup the genset and get the batteries above 80% state of charge--then let the solar array finish it off. Typically batteries charge very quickly and efficiently up to 80-90% state of charge... At that point the batteries start to limit current (absorb phase) and take another 2-4 hours or so to reach >95% state of charge.

    Toward that end of watching your batteries and management for long life--You should really look at getting a Battery Monitor (Victron Energy makes a couple versions too). It makes is much easier for guests, other family members, etc. to make sure they don't damage your very expensive battery bank. You might tell them this:
    • Over 75% state of charge--all OK
    • Less than 75% state of charge, start genset next morning if cloudy weather/heavy power use expected
    • Less than 50% state of charge--Start genset and recharge back to 80% state of charge (and/or turn off optional loads)
    • Less than 20% state of charge--turn off all loads, find out why genset not charging, etc....
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    Working backwards through your last post ...

    Charging batteries slowly is not a good idea. Regardless of type, they all have an optimum recharge rate which will give the longest life and best performance if followed. When panels were expensive and batteries cheap many systems were set up to recharge the batteries over several days' time, to be ready for weekend use. The result was buying new batteries all too often. Now that panel prices have come down and battery prices have gone up it makes sense to get enough panel to recharge quickly and keep them charged while not in use.

    Now about this system of yours. You have six 110 Amp hour 12 Volt batteries, yes? By my calculation you would have 330 Amp hours @ 24 Volts, then. Same amount of power over-all, but a lot easier to set up and maintain. You don't need to go to a 36 Volt system, which does exist but is a rare animal.
    You'll want to see the Smartgauge wiring diagram for batteries here: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
    You can have more than two in parallel, it just gets tricky making sure everything is wired right. Frankly, for 1400 Watt hours a day you could use a 220 Amp hour 24 Volt bank (that would be up to 2640 Watt hours on the DC side). You could then reduce your array size or keep it large for extra power output on those not-so-sunny days.
  • Coach DadCoach Dad Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    BB- Yes 10kw can run anything... and it does use more gas.. however, I already own it,,, and I need some extra power to run my well pump. My plan is to install the solar so I only need to run the generator when I need water...
    My well system is set up so I run the generator for about 5 minutes to fill my 80 gal pressure tank (which gives me 26 gal of water draw down)... I then turn off the generator and use water in the pressure tank... This pressure tank gives me 26 gal of water before I have to fire up the generator again. This is typically enough to get me through a full day of toilet flushing, hand washind and washing dishes. Most of the time I can also take a shower but I run the gen while in the shower just in case;)..
    The reason I want solar is to not run the gen unless I need to pump water... But I won't mind if it happens once in a while.
    I do like the idea of the generator charging the batteries every time it is running..
    Question for you- As a worst case, how long would it take to bulk charge the batteries using the generator?

    Cariboocoot- Yes... I guess I've been using the wrong terminology.. 6 batteries 110AH each @24 volts. Would the 220 AH 24 volt battery bank handle the discharge rate when I make coffee? :blush:
    BTY... I am willing to spend some extra up front money in order to make a good cup of coffee.. :D

    So my plan to allow the system to slooooly recharge is dumb.. I'm glad I asked you guys.

    So based on my needs:
    1400 watts/per day
    900 watts max draw at a given tim
    Located in the Adirondacks (43.2 degrees Latitude)
    What would you recommend for a system size?
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    How long does it take you to make a cup of coffee?
    900 Watts / 24 Volts is roughly 38 Amps, which isn't too huge a current draw. But in reality it isn't as simple as that. My 320 Amp hour system can sustain the nearly 900 Watt draw of the water pump for 6 minutes, but that is in the middle of the day. Most likely you want your coffee in the morning: what state will the batteries be in after over-night use? Not fully charged. In theory 220 Amp hours @ 24 Volts would handle it (AGM's can take heavy discharge better than FLA's too). In practice little things creep into the operation that cause upsets in the fine power balance.

    Are you sure you don't want to use propane? It's a wonderful way of heating water. :D

    On the other hand you have a 10 kW generator there if the batteries do go down. You'll need to have either an inverter/charger like this Outback http://www.solar-electric.com/fx2524t.html or a stand-alone charger capable of at least 33 Amps, like this Iota unit: http://www.solar-electric.com/ioen40amp24v.html

    This leads to the question of what else you plan to run off the system and whether you can use an inexpensive MSW inverter instead of spending $1000+++ for a really good inverter just to heat coffee (resistance heating element doesn't care what sort of waveform it's fed).
  • Coach DadCoach Dad Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    I love propane... I have 4 propane lights, propane refrigerator, propane tankless water heater and propane stove...
    I have seen Colemann sells a propane coffee maker but it seems like it is meant for outdoor use...

    I currently run the generator when making my coffee... but I would love for it to be nice an quiet in the morning while my coffee is brewing.

    I plan to run the following:
    - tv that uses 60watts (I'm estimating 5 hours (300 w for the day) to be on the high end but realistically expect to be about 2 hours (120 w for the day) This same tv uses 2.5 watts while it is off, so I've added 47.5 watts to the to total incase I forget to hit the switch on the outlet strip.

    - 4 CFL lights (I will change these to LED at some point).. These lights will only be on while either in the bathroom or a bedroom. My prioary lighting is with propane lights. Doing a worse case I estamated that they will be used for 1 hour each.

    The rest is for the coffee...
    Which leads me to another question...
    Has anyone on this forum heard of a "Mr. Coffee" style propane coffee maker? I would get one in a New York minute if it worked as well as the electric..
    As I stated earlier, I'm aware of the Colemann which seems to be designed to use with a propane cylinder outside.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,624 admin
    Re: Battery Box Location

    There is this Mr. Coffee style from Coleman:
    http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-5008C700T-Camping-Coffeemaker-Black/dp/B0009PURJ0

    And this propane powered version (I think in stainless and glass versions) :
    http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Portable-Propane-Coffeemaker-Stainless/dp/B004E4AVPW/ref=pd_sbs_sg_2

    I believe Icarus (Tony) Uses the first one all the time.

    I don't drink/make coffee--so do your own research.

    -Bill

    Glass version here:
    http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-2000008052-Portable-Propane-Coffeemaker/dp/B004E4IAEQ
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    Now just take a look at what happens to your electric needs when you pull that coffee maker out of the equation. It will save you money and headache.

    The other items you list draw <150 Watts all together. If you left it all on for eight hours it would still be under 1200 Watt hours. At your estimated use it would be <400. You could do that on one battery @ 12 Volts and reduce the array size to one panel.

    All for want of making coffee. :roll:
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,958 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    When I first started brewing my own coffee in the morning, used a manual system. Boil water on the gas range, pour it into a filter cone, placed on a carafe.

    Works very well, altho a bit time-consuming if one is in a hurry. Well worth the effort to save resources.

    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH [email protected], 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 28,624 admin
    Re: Battery Box Location

    Coach Dad,

    I am not ignoring your questions about charging the battery bank with the genset... Until you have your electrical needs better defined--I wanted to not create a bunch of confusion on genset/charger/battery sizing discussions and options therein... It is much easier to work towards a focused goal vs a broad philosophical discussion. Been there, done that. :roll:

    However, besides the coffee maker, the well/water system is another good thing to discuss regarding conservation measures.

    Can you build/install a cistern and then use a 12 or 24 volt 3 gpm pressure pump for the local plumbing (plus a small pressure tank)?

    It would be nice to run the genset 10-30 minutes for many days worth of water. Then use the small pressurization pump, using battery power, for hot/cold water in the cabin.

    Eventually, when the well pump needs replacing (or the genset becomes too expensive to justify), then you can look at doing something in-well to reduce peak power usage.

    Some example of "solar" water pumps

    -Bill

    PS: Besides cold brewing (making a cold concentrate) there is also the insulated thermos for keeping coffee hot throughout the day...
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Coach DadCoach Dad Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location
    Now just take a look at what happens to your electric needs when you pull that coffee maker out of the equation. It will save hours it would still be under 1200 Watt hours. At your estimated use it would beyou money and headache.

    The other items you list draw <150 Watts all together. If you left it all on for eight <400. You could do that on one battery @ 12 Volts and reduce the array size to one panel.

    All for want of making coffee. :roll:

    You and BB drive a hard bargain.... :D


    BB- I'm going to try the Coleman Propane coffeemaker... I'll order one tomorrow. :D
    I'm not going to change the well pump set up at this point... My system works fine, and I don't mind running the gen for 10-15 min a day. 24 gal of water goes a long way.

    So I'm pretty set on my loads... Just the lights and the TV...
  • SCharlesSCharles Solar Expert Posts: 123 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location
    Coach Dad wrote: »
    You and BB drive a hard bargain.... :D


    BB- I'm going to try the Coleman Propane coffeemaker... I'll order one tomorrow. :D
    I'm not going to change the well pump set up at this point... My system works fine, and I don't mind running the gen for 10-15 min a day. 24 gal of water goes a long way.

    So I'm pretty set on my loads... Just the lights and the TV...



    In our cabin, we have wood stove for heat, which in the winter means we always have hot water available, sitting in a couple of teakettles atop the stove. I am not clear why you would rather make coffee in a coffee-maker rather than what my wife does, which is grind her beans, put the result into a paper filter and pour the boiling water off the wood stove and in moments there is the coffee. I am not a coffee drinker, so it does not matter to me how you do it, considering that I suppose it might taste better to you your way or something. M wife, for example, is rather particular about her coffee and she won't drink it unless it is right. We also have a small gas range, very small, which uses only a few gallons of propane a year to do stovetop cooking [we use a wood-fired kitchen range for other cooking during winter months] and we use it to make coffee and my tea when the temp's dictate we don't use the wood stove.
  • Coach DadCoach Dad Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭
    Re: Battery Box Location

    OK... As I indicated yesterday... you guys have convinced me to take the ELECTRIC coffeemaker out of the equation.
    I ordered the coleman propane coffeemaker this morning.
    http://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanCom/detail.asp?CategoryID=5180&product_id=2000008052

    Once I recalculate my solar needs and devise a plan, I'll start a new post to run it by you.

    You have also saved me the trouble of building an outdoor battery box.

    I can't thank you enough for your help and willingness to help.
Sign In or Register to comment.