E-Cat cold fusion reactor

techntrek

As usual, I'm skeptical as heck, but this one has supposedly has (limited) outside confirmation. No full-scale double-blind tests yet.

http://www.naturalnews.com/032455_cold_fusion_E-Cat.html

2.6 kw from 300 watts input. On another link I saw a picture of a 10 kw unit that easily fit on a desk top, so that would mean easy home installations and even possible vehicle installations.

phred01

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

some further viewing
MSNBC:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45153076/ns/technology_and_science-science/#.TrNdOLIzA3s

PESN:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/News:October_28%2C_2011_Test_of_the_One_Megawatt_E-Cat#Updates_and_News_Regarding_October_28_Test

FoxNews:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/11/02/andrea-rossi-italian-cold-fusion-plant/
strange little shielding for a significant power o/p

nsaspook

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

99.99% Scam!

http://sms.cam.ac.uk/media/1150242
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3295411.ece
http://dabacon.org/pontiff/?p=929

Nothing in life is certain except death, taxes and the second law of thermodynamics.

techntrek

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

2 of the 3 links you posted appear to confirm the output of the device, the 3rd isn't directly related. How does this prove a "99.99% scam"?

waynefromnscanada

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

I guess you could say we've learned from years of experience. Just call me extremely sceptical. I'm the offspring of Doubting Thomas when to comes to announcements like this. I'll wait for the double blind affair

nsaspook

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

techntrek wrote: »

2 of the 3 links you posted appear to confirm the output of the device, the 3rd isn't directly related. How does this prove a "99.99% scam"?

That why I posted them, even the most positive 'believers' realize that what they are seeing is either totally new materials science or impossible.

Whereof what's past is prologue..

http://ktwop.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/rossi-and-his-cold-fusion-e-cat-still-smells-like-a-fraud/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbwWL5ezA4g

phred01

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

some more articles
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3144827.ece

Their report here:
http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3144960.ece/BINARY/Download+the+report+by+Kullander+and+Ess%C3%A9n+%28pdf%29.

Cariboocoot

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

You can believe it when it becomes available at the retail level.
Until then, even if it is real don't hold your breath waiting. :roll:

peakbagger

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

The majority of the reports of the test are third hand or done by "cheerleaders". If the individual has a legitimate product, venture capital firms would be swarming. There are plenty of third party firms that could test the device and resolve a lot of the questions. Based on the limited reports, this sure didtn appear to be the case.

techntrek

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

I'm still skeptical, too. I was just pointing out that nsaspook's links made no sense in the context of his posting.

nsaspook

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

techntrek wrote: »

I'm still skeptical, too. I was just pointing out that nsaspook's links made no sense in the context of his posting.

Those 'positive' links when read by anyone with a engineering or physics background shout out scam, tricks or disinformation. I guess I could have posted this also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Rossi_%28entrepreneur%29

Electricity from waste heat

In the US Rossi started the consulting firm Leonardo Technologies, Inc. (LTI). He secured a defense contract to evaluate the potential of generating electricity from waste heat by using thermoelectric generators. Such devices are normally only used for refrigeration (Peltier effect), because the efficiency for generating electrical power is only a few percent. Rossi suggested that his devices could attain 20 % efficiency. A demonstration that he conducted at the University of New Hampshire produced 100 volt at 1 ampere (100 watt) during a week. Larger modules would be manufactured in Italy. Rossi sent 27 termoelectric devices for evaluation to the Engineer Research and Development Center; 19 of these did not produce any electricity at all. The remaining units produced less than 1 watt each, instead of the expected 800–1000 watt.[9]

Claims regarding nuclear fusion
Main article: Energy Catalyzer

In January 2011 Andrea Rossi and Professor Sergio Focardi claimed to have successfully demonstrated commercially viable cold fusion in a device called an Energy Catalyzer, although in an interview Rossi claimed that his Energy Catalyzer is not working on the basis of cold fusion, but weak [force] nuclear reactions.[10] The international patent application received an unfavorable international preliminary report on patentability because it seemed to "offend against the generally accepted laws of physics and established theories" and to overcome this problem the application should have contained either experimental evidence or a firm theoretical basis in current scientific theories.[11] Journalists were not allowed to examine the core of the reactor, and there is still uncertainty about the viability of the invention.[12]

phred01

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

This is Rossi's blog
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=338
Looks like units are going to be delivered shortly and commissioned If the E-Cat truly works there is going to be a flurry of RE efforts

nsaspook

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/11/26/rossi-declines-italian-and-u-s-government-testing-offers/

Andrea Rossi, inventor of the Energy Catalyzer, or E-Cat, has declined an offer from an Italian government laboratory for independent testing of his device.

According to Francesco Celani, a physicist with the Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics in Frascati, Rossi says he has sold his device and that he has no other unit available for independent testing.

http://www.focus.it/scienza/dove-va-l-e-cat-e-la-risposta-di-rossi-alla-proposta-di-celani-1203/dear-eng-rossi_PC12.aspx
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/01/14/focardi-and-rossi-reality-or-scam/

It sounds more like a solid-oxide fuel cell than a reactor of any type. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_oxide_fuel_cell

nsaspook

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-12/30/cold-fusion-rival

Curiously, Rossi does not accuse Defkalion of stealing intellectual property. Instead, he insists that it has never known the details how the E-Cat works. He says it cannot make its device operate without his secret catalyst, which it was hoping to acquire. "There are clowns saying they have a technology copied from us, actually they have just a moke up (sic), waiting for the piece of info they need to make a real copy," Rossi wrote in his Journal of Nuclear Physics blog, congratulating himself for outwitting them.

The second part of the Sting is where the Plant or Stooge creates a buzz which secures the interest of the Mark, making it easier for the Scam Artist to perpetrate the swindle.

phred01

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

Is NASA really looking into this? http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/ & http://technologygateway.nasa.gov/media/CC/lenr/lenr.html

nsaspook

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3535258.ece

When investors measuring 6 September in Bologna, however, could no heat energy is found beyond the input electrical power.

Investor Group had instructed the SP Swedish National Testing and Research Institute , to monitor the measurement, and the researchers who attended measuring an input electrical power that was two to three times higher than Rossi himself measured (the measurement used the SP called True RMS Instruments ) .

phred01

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

Rossi has sold his interest to speculative investors so he won't be supplying Ecats soon

nsaspook

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

A con game in process ... take the money and run.

Skippy

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

Last time I heard about these things, I read that there were a couple of them powering houses - no external hydro needed. . . which at the time I thought it was kinda cool . . .

BUT . . . think about this a bit, if these things were to replace big oil - and that is what we are talking about - a new form of energy - you think the big boys would "let" it go thru ? They would shut it down faster than a solar panel hit by lightning . .

On the other hand, if it did not work worth a darn, no threat - let the little people have their fun . . and loose their money . .

I really hope these things are real . . a form of "new science" as said . . . but as also stated, I will wait till I can go too Wallie mart to get one. . . Then I will go to a good store and get one . ..

ggunn

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

Skippy wrote: »

Last time I heard about these things, I read that there were a couple of them powering houses - no external hydro needed. . . which at the time I thought it was kinda cool . . .

BUT . . . think about this a bit, if these things were to replace big oil - and that is what we are talking about - a new form of energy - you think the big boys would "let" it go thru ? They would shut it down faster than a solar panel hit by lightning . .

On the other hand, if it did not work worth a darn, no threat - let the little people have their fun . . and loose their money . .

I really hope these things are real . . a form of "new science" as said . . . but as also stated, I will wait till I can go too Wallie mart to get one. . . Then I will go to a good store and get one . ..

The Laws of Thermodynamics have not been repealed; energy-wise the best you can hope for is to break even, and you can't break even.

Charlatans depend on conspiracy theories to propagate their BS.

There is no free lunch.

phred01

The Latest on the E-Cat posted elsewhere....

Well, all the secrets are out now, the US patent was granted last month, number 9115913.

It is for a heat-exchanger apparently based on a chemical reaction involving Lithium, Aluminium and Hydrogen, with Nickel being present purely as a "catalyst".
No special isotopes, no conversion of Nickel to Copper, no mention of fusion of any sort.
No numbers for power density, only the vague figure of having to pump in 1kWhr for every 6 you take out (devoid of any reference to the time or size of charge needed to create this energy).

There is a "radiation shield", but no actual mention of what sort of radiation. This could be a pair of sunglasses for all we know.

There is a multi-stage chemical reaction described, which produces hydrogen, and for some inexplicable reason one of the claims is that at least one stage must be reversible. This system is supposed to be generating energy – why do we need to consume it again and reverse the reaction? Maybe that explains the need for regular heat to boost the "self-sustaining reaction", in that there is an absorption/desorption cycle going on with the hydrogen on or in the Nickel.

If I were an investor I'd want a safer patent than this. Not that I have any concept of patent law, but this looks to me as watertight as his "independent" test reports.

And his fuel contains an unexplained excess of finely powdered elemental Lithium (20%). He says elsewhere (e-cat Australia) that the Li fuses with the hydrogen, but I cannot see that anywhere in the patent.

inetdog

ggunn said:

Re: E-Cat cold fusion reactor

The Laws of Thermodynamics have not been repealed; energy-wise the best you can hope for is to break even, and you can't break even.

Those are the first two Laws of Thermodynamics in my favorite formulation. Although for punch the first law is expressed as the equivalent "You can't win!"
The third in that set is:
"You cannot even get out of the game."

Bunkysdad

P.T. Barnum would be smiling!!

OutsourcedGuru

I'm certain that cold fusion is possible. I do know that a lot of companies making this promise exist for the purpose of cashing in on the potential millions of dollars in investment opportunities.

On an unrelated note, I helped my ex-girlfriend land a sweet contract working as a lead engineer at Brillouin Energy out of Berkeley, California. She snuck me photos of their device and it looks legitimate to me. Review their test results if you want.