BZ Controller info passed onto the beginner

StevenB
StevenB Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
Thanks for the info.
Below is the link to the thread discussing the BZ (I hope I did it right).
http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=1779
And it was provided to me on this recent thread:
http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=5359

From my limited beginner vantage point, it looks like the BZ does not properly activate (or actually deactivate?) float....and that it's improper thresholds for power management end up limiting potential pv power?

And this matches up with my guess work. I will say BZ was very responsive to my questions...but their solution for my couple of test panels was to essentially just turn the float adjuster pin way up. Which I did, and have come so close to reaming the delicate adjuster off, that I'm afraid to touch any more. BZ said to send the unit back and they would fix that.

But OK....if it's ultimately junk anyway, then I'd like a good suggestion to replace it with. The two Kaneka 60 panels were always targeted to be "test" panels, that eventually (in the next 30-60 days) will have additional panels added to a separate input using a Xantrex controller added onto to my current Xantrex 6048 hybrid. Here is the basic specs for a 60 watt Kaneka:
>>> Nominal Power 60W
>>> Open Circuit Voltage 92V
>>> Short Circuit Current 1.19A
>>> Voltage at Pmax 67V
>>> Current at Pmax 0.90A
Assuming I will not be wanting to add anything more onto that circuit with the Kanekas, and I want to save as much dollars as reasonable for the larger "phase2" components......what are some appropriate choice to replace the BZ?

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Re: BZ Controller info passed onto the beginner

    Steven,

    You might want to keep your questions for the same system in one thread... Saves people having to guess/remember information from other threads or you being supplying repetitive information in the new threads.

    At this point, if you are using an XW Hybrid inverter, you might wish to stick with the Xantrex XW 60 amp MPPT controller. Proven to integrate well with the XW hybrid inverter.

    Also, you might want to look at the Xantrex prewired panel for connecting it all together (Midnite solar may also sell these too--you would have to check with our host or Midnite Solar directly). In the end, can save you a lot of time trying to source all of the components to make one yourself.

    Regarding the Keneka panels... A couple of observations.

    1. 67 volt panels are a non-standard Vmp--may make it difficult to mix with other panels down the road if you need to add more panels (if they are not Keneka brand)
    2. Amorphous panels are not near as efficient as Mono/Poly Crystalline panels. It take around 2x the roof array to capture the same energy (and ~twice as much costs for racking and wiring amporphous panels per installed watt):

    60 watts[FONT=arial, helvetica] x 144sq" per sq'[/FONT] / ([FONT=arial, helvetica]39" x 37.8") = 5.9 watts per sq foot Keneka Amporphous
    175 watts [/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica] x 144sq" per sq'[/FONT] / ([FONT=arial, helvetica]62.8" x 31.1")[/FONT] = 12.9 watts per sq foot BP 4175 mono-crystalline panel
    [FONT=arial, helvetica]
    3. I am not sure I trust the long term output stability/reliability of Amorphous panels. The panels loose quite a bit of their output in the first 6 months (typically 20%--but are supposed to stabilze after that), and they require hermetic sealing (water, oxygen) more so than silicon panels (hermetic sealing for 25-49 year life of solar panels is very difficult).

    With the costs of mono and poly cyrstalline solar panels so low now (look at $$/watt pricing)--I am not sure you will save much money with amorphous panels.

    And you might want to use larger panels (~200 watts vs 60 watts) if you are going to install a large array (multiple kWatt size)... Fewer panels, fewer electrical connections usually means better reliability and lower installation time+costs (and large panels are typically cheaper on a $$/Watt basis).

    -Bill
    [/FONT]
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • StevenB
    StevenB Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller info passed onto the beginner

    Bill,
    I've managed to intermingle two separate but related issues:

    The two Kanekas and the BZ were my quick "cheap" solutions to mount onto the Xantrex 6048 and make mistakes, learn, observe ...before I decided the emphasis on wind or solar, and what size components to use in the next step "phase 2".
    I'd like to keep the Kanekas online but I want to fix the issue of the bum BZ with an adequate replacement controller....or hear someone tell me why I should just continue to use the BZ with the float pin turned all the way up so it never floats. And down the road later....as the old joke goes......if it dies it dies.

    The "phase 2" I'm looking to add Kyocera KD205GX-LP 205W 18V Solar Panels, Xantrex Controller, and yes any suggested peripheral Xantrex accessories. But in no way other than the Kanekas also going to the battery, and then to the inverter.....collaborate and/or combine with the phase 2.

    So my immediate goal is to take on the issue of getting those two Kanekas to maximize their potential with proper controlling.

    PS should I add this onto the other thread.....or is it too late...and just do it better in the future?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Re: BZ Controller info passed onto the beginner

    Regarding the threads...

    If you wish, post the URL's of the individual threads you want to merge, and the one URL of the "master thread" you desire.

    Niel or I can merge all the threads together (as you desire--the posts should be in chronological order) and we will delete the "thread instruction" posts.

    If your two Kaneka's appear to be powering your battery bank/GT inverter near rated capacity (typically around 70-80% of panel name plate rating)--then there is probably no reason to change out the BZ controller at this time (assuming everything else is working find for you).

    Decide on your expansion plans (controller(s), panels, racking, etc.), and see how your existing solar panels + controller fit (you may be able to add the two panels with the new strings--if everything matches correctly)--Or just leave the BZ controller to charge in parallel with the rest of your new equipment--should not be a problem as long as the BZ controller is working well for you.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • StevenB
    StevenB Solar Expert Posts: 71 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller info passed onto the beginner

    Let me know if I am responding with too many responses or too much micro info.

    No the BZ is not working well yet. I've turned the Float screw as instructed by BZ...but it wobbled and felt on the verge of snapping (it's way too delicate a piece for something that is manually adjusted).

    The adjustment did result in the Pentametric showing higher amps going to the battery...but I didn't want to touch it again without my Electrician there to help me take the controller out...if i finally snapped the adjuster pin.

    BZ has offered to repair it with a few days turn around.....but with many on the forum calling it junk...I am trying to get info on it's appropriate replacement.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Re: BZ Controller info passed onto the beginner

    A 120 watts of solar panels is a quite small installation...

    For the normal 60-80 amp solar charge controllers, the minimum panel recommendation is probably ~400 Watts. Any less than that, and the controller consumes a fair amount of power just operating.

    Maybe a ProStar 15 solar charge controller, 48 Volt would be an OK replacement (read manual for details) for the BZ.

    Otherwise, the Xantrex and Outback line of charge 60-80 amp charge controllers is the place to start looking (you should ask Outback if they have fixed their firmware(?) issues with the Flexmate series yet).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller info passed onto the beginner

    The Kaneka panels are high voltage panels mainly sold for use with the Grundfos solar pumps. To use them with a battery system you need a controller that can take up to 90 volts or so on the input, and there are not any that will do that in the lower price range.