BZ Controller

icarus
icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
I've done a bunch of searches and can't find any information.

Has anyone here had any experience with BZ MPPT controllers?
Do they perform well? Do they induce noise (RFI) into systems?
Do they have longevity? My hunch is that it may be a brand X type unit since the experts here don't ever refer to them. I need a bigger controller, but don't need (or want to spring for) an mx-60.

Once again thanks in advance.

Icarus
«1

Comments

  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    here you go

    http://www.bzproducts.net/

    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Been there,

    I am more interested in peoples opinion of the product(s)

    T
  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Tony,

    I’ve never tried the BZ Products MPPT500 controller. I hope I never do. In my opinion, there are at least five fundamental flaws with the unit: lack of Absorb charge mode, no timer for the “Float” mode, lack of EQ function for flooded-cell batteries, odd temp comp curve, and the low 100 Voc input voltage limit.

    The controller’s “Float” mode operation is probably comparable to other charger’s Absorb Mode. Either way, it’s still a two-stage charger with no controller over the length of the absorb/”float” cycle. Proper flooded-cell battery maintenance will be very difficult without a dedicated EQ mode, although the “Float” voltage could be manually raised after an absorb (“Float”) cycle has been completed. Don’t forget to reset the “Float” voltage afterwards!

    The -18mV/C temp comp curve is unusual, as a typical 12 V curve is -30 mV/C.

    The controller is rated to handle a “48 V” array. But, the STC Vmp of a “48 V” array is typically ~70 V, and the STC Voc is ~87.5 V. That leaves but 11% headroom for cold weather temperature correction factor, which means a “48 V” array shouldn’t be used is ambient temperature of < 32 F (0 C) per NEC 690-7.

    Finally, there’s virtually no discussion of any of these issues in the brief (4 page) user’s manual. To me, that’s scary,

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Jim,

    Without as much technical info as you have provided, I sorta came to the same conclusion. I trust the members of this forum to post honest experiences and "educated opinions" (Yours being the latter. If the learned members have such reservations that should tell me something.

    Once again thanks for your advice.

    T

    Icarus
  • nigtomdaw
    nigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Run that past me again Icarus.......vino clouds mind function.....hip
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Just seconding Jim's opinion!

    Icarus
  • James
    James Solar Expert Posts: 250 ✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    hi folks,

    for what it is worth,
    i purchased a bz mppt250 controller to set up a friends small off grid cabin.
    it did not work correctly. returned it under warranty to bz. i was told it was repaired, but no explanation of what was done to it. it came back in same condition.....not working correctly. bz has not answered my emails. i installed a xantrex c40 i had on my bench. it is working flawlessly, except, of course, it does not have power point tracking.

    so, i had to take a $145.00 loss on this project.
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    I purchased 3 MPPT500 controllers last year when I bought and installed some new panels. I installed them according to instructions. One "smoked" itself the first day, the other two worked ok but as was said in crewzer's post, the lack of absorb mode made them deliver barely half of my panels' potential power. They seemed to be cheaply made and now reside in my garage available to anyone that wants 'em (pay the shipping). I bought two MX60's and have had no problems (of course) with them.

    I originally was going to get the MX60s but was persuaded to get the three MPPT500s instead by the salesperson I was ordering from.... BAD decision on my part. Lesson learned. I wouldn't even put these on eBay because an unknowing buyer would certainly be disappointed in solar altogether, and at least need to have a bigger battery bank than necessary.

    I had some questions about the varying digital readings between the two (identical setups and panels, very different performance). I received a couple of emails from BZ but communication abruptly stopped when I asked if newer models would have an absorb mode, mentioning the MX60.

    Want a couple of 'em and a spare case with just a little arc damage? Actually, the cases may find a use someday for something. Or not. Dang.

    Phil
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Phil,

    Merci, megweech, thankyou.

    I'll stay away.

    Tony
  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller
    PhilS wrote: »
    I purchased 3 MPPT500 controllers last year when I bought and installed some new panels. I installed them according to instructions. One "smoked" itself the first day, the other two worked ok but as was said in crewzer's post, the lack of absorb mode made them deliver barely half of my panels' potential power. They seemed to be cheaply made and now reside in my garage available to anyone that wants 'em (pay the shipping). I bought two MX60's and have had no problems (of course) with them.
    Phil

    If your serious about the offer, I'd like to put one on the bench and see what the BZ can really do and its performance .. pm me with what ever details you need

    I've been curious how it really performs, but not enough to buy one just to test
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    PM back to you, SG. To let the others know, I'm only asking for shipping and that you post your testing results here.

    Phil
  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Phil,

    I have to admit that I'm tempted, but I'm just working on too much other stuff right now, and both our "boys" will soon be home for the holidays. Perhaps we revisit this "opportunity" early next year? :roll:

    Regards,
    Jim / crewzer
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller
    crewzer wrote: »
    Phil,

    I have to admit that I'm tempted, but I'm just working on too much other stuff right now, and both our "boys" will soon be home for the holidays. Perhaps we revisit this "opportunity" early next year? :roll:

    Regards,
    Jim / crewzer

    Jim,

    Maybe Solar Guppy will discover that these units are GREAT and I just didn't realize it!

    But I think not and look forward to his findings. I've actually wanted to post about these but considered that unsolicited negative comments may not be totally appropriate nor my style. However, icarus asked!!

    Thanks, icarus. I not only got to post my experience but will make a little more room in my garage.

    Phil

    Phil
  • kenputer
    kenputer Solar Expert Posts: 27
    Re: BZ Controller

    I would be interested in trying one of those controllers if you still have one.
    thanks
    Ken
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller
    kenputer wrote: »
    I would be interested in trying one of those controllers if you still have one.
    thanks
    Ken

    Ken,

    I've shipped one to SolarGuppy and he's gonna put it through its paces and report back here. I still have one working unit and one fried unit but will wait now to see what SolarGuppy posts. I'm not about to waste solar panels by using one of these again but want to wait for his results before sending off the last working one. Keep following this thread.

    Phil
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    I got the other Bz controller. I will have to wait until later in the winter to compare it side by side with my other controller(s), but here is my first impression.

    I think that the manual is way to short on information, the metering system, while on board, only displays one bit of information at a time, plus t has limited info, only battery volts and amps, and PV amps. It has a led showing when the battery is in float, but it doesn't seem to have bulk/absorb/float stages. It also doesn't have an equalization mode, either manual or automatic. On the plus side, it does have a included temp probe. The problem is that it is only about 16" long, forcing you to leave the probe either in the air (which is not a very accurate way of measuring battery temp) or installing the controller very close to the battery bank.

    I suppose for the user that has a simple system and wants to gain the advantage of a mppt controller, this might suit. (I have yet to test any mppt advantage, that will have to wait). If you have a serious or semi-serious system I think you would do better with a MX 60, or perhaps a bluesky SB2512iX (At the risk of starting another new thread, does anyone have an opinion of the SB2512iX ??)

    It will be a few months, but I will do a comparison latter in the winter.

    Icarus

    PS Thanks Phil, I'm still not sure why I wanted to undertake this, but what the heck!
    Tony
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    My apologies to Icarus and Solar Guppy. I got TOTALLY mixed up between posts to this thread and PMs. I sent a PM to Solar Guppy offering him a unit for shipping costs and asking for his address. I then received a PM from Icarus but signed with his real name. I thought it was Solar Guppy.... who DID send me a PM a little later.

    However, SolarGuppy's PM has been sitting in my PM box until today because (unlike some other forums I frequent) it's not REAL obvious that there's an unread PM waiting.

    Yeah, if I looked closer but....

    ...in some other forums, there's a BIG red "Private Message waiting" or something similar to catch my attention.

    So Icarus has one unit already and that's good as he started the thread. I'm gonna ship the other working unit to Solar Guppy and then we'll have two members bench testing these things. The third unit has a toasted section on the circuit board at the panel input the size of a 50 cent piece, so it'll make a nice case for some future project.

    Kenputer, sorry but unless you want a toasted unit, both the working ones are spoken for. But I guarantee if you are setting up a system you DON'T want to use one of these and you'll see why when Icarus and Solar Guppy post their results.

    Phil
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller
    icarus wrote: »
    On the plus side, it does have a included temp probe. The problem is that it is only about 16" long, forcing you to leave the probe either in the air (which is not a very accurate way of measuring battery temp) or installing the controller very close to the battery bank.

    Icarus

    PS Thanks Phil, I'm still not sure why I wanted to undertake this, but what the heck!
    Tony

    I just wanted to add that of the three controllers I bought, they each had a different length temp probe.... ALL too short to reach my battery bank. Years ago I built and modified circuit boards for a couple of companies in San Jose and I'd have been embarrassed to send one of these units to anyone and claim responsibility for building it.

    [on edit] not only were the probes too short, but they are hardwired to the board rather than on a plug/jack arrangement so lengthening would void a warranty besides being a PIA.

    Phil
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: BZ Controller

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    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Thanks Bill, for 'holding my hand' to get my preferences where they needed to be.

    I've checked those boxes and shouldn't have this kind of mixup again.

    At least nothing serious resulted from it other than Solar Guppy probably questioning my statements of "...shipped one to him..." , although he may have just figured it was still en route. One WILL be en route to him next week.

    Phil
  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    I was wondering ... but its no big deal as beyond verifiying performance the last thing I need is a charge controllers :roll:
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller
    icarus wrote: »
    On the plus side, it does have a included temp probe. The problem is that it is only about 16" long, forcing you to leave the probe either in the air (which is not a very accurate way of measuring battery temp) or installing the controller very close to the battery bank.

    This was the first indication of quality I noticed when I first received these controllers.....

    The one I'm shipping to Solar Guppy has a temp probe length of 52". Still too short to reach my batteries, but the differences in temp probe lengths (my toasted unit has a different length than both of these) seems to demonstrate the quality control systems in place at BZ.

    I'm shipping it to Solar Guppy today.... and even tho he doesn't need another controller, he'll appreciate that he didn't wast his time or money with this brand.

    Phil
  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    I got the unit from Phil today, put it on the bench, here is a few comments

    1) For the techies, its a single phase, 40khz classic buck ... meaning FET for the high-side, diode for the low side.. a lossy design ( heat ). It has no heat sink and there is absoulty NO WAY this design could sustain 45 amps. the 2 Fets and two diodes are mounted to the thin chassis. With diodes on the low-side ( instead of FETs ) any 24->12 volt or similar step down operation would have large losses, at 45 amps easily 30-40 watts of heat, the box might be good for 10 watt maximum of thermal dissapation.

    2) The disconnect relay is rated for 30 amps AC, not DC, again, this unit couldn't safely sustain 45 amps, the relay would melt.

    2) The internal supply is run off a LM2594HV, directly connected to the battery. This part has a never to exceed 60 volt rating, so I wouldn't run this on a 48volt battery bank

    3) The unit didn't track mppt with a vmp of 42 volts at all, it was jumping from 17-18 volts non-stop. I probed around a bit with a scope and verified they pwm was operating, the unit displayed amps, so the PIC micro knows the amps but seems intent on running a 12 volt battery at ~17-18 volts.

    4) The only efficiency I could test was at about 5 amps out, 18V in , 13V out was about 95% .. but this is about as best case as the design will get. higher current and or if the Mppt worked allowing a higher input voltage, the losses would be much greater

    5) The battery dip switchs do nothing, set for 12/14/48V the unit worked the same

    The unit was manufactured in April of 2006. It seems to operate as Karens unit ( the Lady from NM ) as her unit reported amps were similar meaning even though it had a 48 volt array connected, the amps in vs. amps out look more like a few volts differential, not 10's of volts as would be expected.

    This is a sample size of one, and this unit is not operating as a mppt controller should with a 36V array to a 12v battery, but is not due to part defects I can see, it would have to be the micro controller or its program code

    Hope this helps if anyone has an interest in the product.
  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Thanks for the review, SG ! Always like to hear how things are made.

    BTW, I understand that the XW MPPT now also has a diode low side switch instead of a FET and single phase FWIW.

    boB
  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Hi boB,

    Yes, yet another featured of my design removed ... At least the Dynamic Mppt is still there.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    SG,

    Make me look bad why don't ya! lol.

    I have wired mine up to a set of test panels, but we have yet to see any sun, so I can't report anything.

    Icarus
  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Update,

    I hooked up the bench supply instead of the Solar Array, the unit seemed to wake up at about 10 amps and allowed some power testing ...

    At 23V in , 13.8V out @ 20 amps efficiecny was 93.8%
    At 40V in , 13.8V out @ 26 amps efficiency was 85%
    At 41V in , 13.8V out @ 25 amps efficiency was 76.9%, after running 10 minutes

    The drop is the unit heating up, at @25 amps the back of the unit was already 60C and climbing.

    So it would appear a 200 watt array in the afternoon wasn't enough to kick in Mppt, the unit thermally suffers greatly at even moderate Step down configurations.

    I'm done with this box ... I think I'll ship it back to Phil :roll:
  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller

    Henry/SG,

    Thanks for taking the time to test the controller and post the results. This type of information will hopefully help a few people make the right equipment choices in the future.

    Regards,
    Jim / crewzer
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller
    I'm done with this box ... I think I'll ship it back to Phil :roll:

    Wow.... some official tests to confirm my impressions of these things. Quick and excellent observations SG!

    How 'bout shipping it to Crewzer instead?! Kenputer expressed interest, but anyone's interest in a BZ controller should be only to affirm the superior operation of whatever controller they are comparing it against. As far as using it to efficiently convert solar to electricity it'd be a step backward IMO. If the company has made improvements to newer models I don't think it excuses their distribution of these second-rate units. There also appears to be less-than-good support after a purchase, both in my instance and James'.


    Phil
  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: BZ Controller
    Hi boB,
    Yes, yet another featured of my design removed ... At least the Dynamic Mppt is still there.

    I remember when Xantrex bought a couple of early MX60s long ago, which
    had these features, except for the Dynamic tracking part. I think that Kelly made his first XW version with those features in his prototype ??

    BTW, Arlington-Xantrex is going away during the first half of 2008. :cry:

    boB