Thoughts on system

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got solar
got solar Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
My first post. I'm looking to take everything off-grid except A/C compressor and clothes dryer(for now). The furnace fan and a/c condenser fans are 12 volt. Sunshine is not an issue as I live in Las Vegas, NV.
2 or 3-kyocera 135w(parallel)
4 -Trojan L16RE-B 6V 370Ah each(series/parallel)
Tristar PWM 60 or Outback Flexmax 60 controller
1-Wagan 8000 for microwave,fridge,toaster oven,clothes washer,(2)eemax 3.5kw tankless water heater
2-wagan 1500(37"lcd tv,dvd/vcr) (19"lcd,WII)lights
Input greatly appreciated.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Thoughts on system
    got solar wrote: »
    My first post. I'm looking to take everything off-grid except A/C compressor and clothes dryer(for now). The furnace fan and a/c condenser fans are 12 volt. Sunshine is not an issue as I live in Las Vegas, NV.
    2 or 3-kyocera 135w(parallel)
    4 -Trojan L16RE-B 6V 370Ah each(series/parallel)
    Tristar PWM 60 or Outback Flexmax 60 controller
    1-Wagan 8000 for microwave,fridge,toaster oven,clothes washer,(2)eemax 3.5kw tankless water heater
    2-wagan 1500(37"lcd tv,dvd/vcr) (19"lcd,WII)lights
    Input greatly appreciated.


    a few points here. first of all you do know that whatever power you use you have to replace and then some to overcome any losses. secondly, those batteries will need at least a 5% rate of charge which translates to 37a minimally. even at that you must allow the battery bank sufficient time to recharge as you will only get so many full sun hours out of a day and a 5% rate of charge is a 20hr rate. most likely a higher charge rate will be needed to replenish your battery bank and never allow it to become depleted as we like to say for most not to go below 50% to help keep battery life.
    i think your effort is noble, but you will need much more than you think. monitor your power with a meter like the kill-a-watt and do some conserving. reading some of these threads may also help you. plan it out better after you gather more pertinent facts of your needs and that of a solar pv system to supply it.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    A couple of things to add to Neil's comments.

    First,, a battery based solar system will run about twice as much per usable kwh as a grid tie,,,

    As a general rule of thumb, (My numbers!) If you take the name plate rating of your panel array,,multiply that by the expected number of hours a day of (perfect) sun, usually 4-6, and then divide by 2 you will get a realistic number of how many watt/hours you can get out of your system. For example,,, 100 watts X 6 hours= 600 watt hours/2=300 watt/hours out the outlets. This takes into account panel efficiencies, charge controllers ef, battery charging ef, inverter ef, line loss etc.

    A grid tie system should be better than 90%,, so in addition to not having to buy batteries, you get more bang for the buck.

    Next,, as we often say,, conserve, conserve, conserve! For every dollar spent on conservation will save ~$10 in PV costs. If you haven't done every thing you can to reduce the loads,, you are throwing your money away.

    Finally,, if you are committed to going off grid,,, your system is going to be way too small as configured. As we say all too often,,, do the math. Using your 3 /135 watt panels and my math I come up with: 405 watts X 6 hours=2430 wh/h /2=1215 wh/day,,, or ~1.2 kw.

    Using your loads,, you could run your water heater for less than 20 minutes per day!


    I suggest that you lose all the resistance heating loads, (toaster, water heater, coffee maker, hair drier etc.) and use alternatives. As Neil suggests,, get a Kill-a Watt, and monitor your loads in your current lifestyle to get a REAL world idea of what you are really going to use.

    You live in a perfect environment for solar,,, but please spend some time reading and getting truly educated,, and avoid the "ready, fire, aim" syndrome.

    Tony
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  • Quabillion
    Quabillion Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭
    #4
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    Please tell me more about your air conditioner system. Specficaly the 12V blower fan motor and 12V condenser fan motor. Is this some kind of retrofit that you/your buddy did??

    What brand system is it, tonnage, is it R-22 or R-410A, what brand are the motors and what is their wattage/hp rating?

    I ask these questions because not only have I never seen this, I have never even HEARD of this in my 9 years of being an A/C service tech. All the systems that I have ever seen/ worked on/ installed had 240V condenser fan motors and 120V blower motors.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    qb,
    i'm not sure who you are asking about 12v a/c systems, but they do exist. the rv industry thrives on this type of a/c system so as not to have inverter losses. long ago crewzer had also pointed out to me some larger a/c systems for permanent mounting on buildings that were low voltage dc, but i lost that link in a pc crash.
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  • Quabillion
    Quabillion Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭
    #6
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    I was asking the OP.


    niel
    The RV industry uses shorepower or generator ONLY to operate the air conditioning.
    Batteries and inverters have never been used to operate the air conditioning, save for one brand, Earthroamer. And even the Earthroamer uses a regular RV roof A/C unit with 120V blower motor.

    Every single RV roof mount A/C that I have ever seen has a 120V blower motor with a shaft coming out of each end. The condenser fan is on one shaft, and the blower fan is on the other. The unit itself is nothing more than a "window" unit in a different casing. To have a 12V fan would mean 2X the wire runs, as well as a very large converter to convert the 120V shore/gen power to 12V.


    Also only the ultra high end models of class-A RV even come with an inverter. The inverter is there for operating a normal television or refrigerator and nothing more. The battery banks that are included with the inverter upgrade package are pathetically small too, in the 150-250Ah range.


    Do you have any links or brand names to share?
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    unfortunately, i lost the link to the one i saw and i don't consider myself an expert or very experienced in the a/c field. are you telling us that they invert the 12vdc in rv a/c systems just to save on the wiring? ifso, then where do they place these inverters, in the a/c unit as that would be dumb? i am not an expert on rvs either as crewzer had much experience and knowledge of them and a few others here as well. i just remember kicking around the idea long ago of a small battery operated a/c system and even considered thermoelectrics, but they are not too efficient in power usage for the small amount of cooling they'd give.
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    there is a company that makes 12,24 and 48 volt dc ac units. they are specifically designed for RV and Boats and also trailer truck cabs. I will try to find a link
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    http://www.dcbreeze.com/
    http://www.solcool.net/
    this is the one i was thinking of http://www.sunpowertech.com/

    But google is your friend there are literally tons of DC air conditioners out there just got to look
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  • Quabillion
    Quabillion Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭
    #10
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    A "standard" RV or camper trailer has a 12V lighting system and water pump.
    The fridge is an ammonia based system that can use either propane or electric.
    The Air conditioner is 120V only and must have either shore power or generator to operate. The 12V lighting system has a single and usually small 12v flooded lead acid battery and a converter in the 200-500 watt range to provide the 12V power.

    All is powered by the shore power connection ultimately. While going down the road or stopped at a gas station the battery will power the lighting and water pump. The roof air conditioner will be inoperable, due to no 120v power being available while going down the road. When you arrive at your campground, you rent a site that includes electric service, park the rig, and plug in to the grid power.
    The converter will come on and recharge the power that was used from the battery running the lights and water pump on the trip, as well as supplying the 12V for the time you are parked. The air conditioner is now operable, as 120V grid power is available.

    In order to overcome these issues most RVs have an onboard generator, which can be operated while parked or going down the road. But trailers do not, as you generally are not in the trailer while in transit, rather driving the truck that is pulling the trailer.

    ______

    My system is way different. My solar provides all the 12V power I need, and the inverter runs things like the microwave, dvd player, sat box, and my special non ammonia fridge. The OEM ammonia fridge was broken when I bought the RV, so I replaced it with a standard compressor fridge that I bought a Lowes for like $200. Whenever I need air conditioning my thermostat calls for the generator to start and stop as needed to keep me cool. The air conditioners that I have consume 900-1300 watts running, each. This has allowed me to rent sites that do not include electric service, for a MUCH lower price than electric sites. It also allows me to simply park wherever I want, no campsite needed.
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  • Quabillion
    Quabillion Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭
    #11
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    Re: Thoughts on system
    halfcrazy wrote: »
    http://www.dcbreeze.com/
    http://www.solcool.net/
    this is the one i was thinking of http://www.sunpowertech.com/

    But google is your friend there are literally tons of DC air conditioners out there just got to look


    I have seen these, and even considered them for my own RV.

    The point I am trying to make here is that these DC units are NOT standard OEM equipment for RVs.

    Where on earth are you going to get the 1000+ DC watts needed for each air conditioner?? If you say a generator or shore power then why all the conversions and extra equipment when a 120v air conditioner is the simplest way?
    This is how RV manufactures look at it.


    I am not trying to say that DC air conditioning is not real, just that it is not normal for an RV/camper trailer. I have never seen/heard of an RV that had DC air conditioning .
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    Ok the OP isn't working on a camper it is a house. and many of us have 1000 watts dc available to run an ac offgrid. I don't understand the problem Some one asked for info on dc air conditioning and I provided it??????

    I personally run 2 5000 btu ac's of my inverter in the summer months and dont mind that they are ac not dc but i bet the dc is much more efficient?
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    I think we are straying a bit away from the original question,,, which was to evaluate the OP's system,

    Tony
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  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    The newer variable speed blowers are DC, but I think they are 90 VDC or 150 VDC. The OP could have misread the numbers.
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  • got solar
    got solar Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
    #15
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    First, Thank you for all the input. Let me clarify some things. I live in a 960sqft shingled roof modular home, aka mobile home. As of now my power bill runs from 710kwh in the winter to 1500kwh in the summer. The a/c condenser is currently 208VAC 1/4 hp and the blower is 115VAC. On the suggestion of a 25yr+ a/c tech I could use a low pressure switch to energize a relay and use a 12VDC 17" 2100cfm cooling fan for the condenser and use a 120VAC to 12VDC transformer to energize a relay to use a 14" 1500cfm 12VDC cooling fan. My current 240VAC electric water heater uses 2 4500watt elements which spins the meter wicked after all 4 showers(1 is my 15yr old daughter,yikes), hence going to the 3.5Kw Thermostatic-at-source tankless water heaters that only turn on when the hot water is used, conserve water and power. The clothes dryer is electric 240V(5000W) soon to be replaced with 120V(gas). The toaster oven and microwave are used a couple times a day for a few minutes or less at a time. The gas stove does the actual cooking. Lights are being switched for CFL. The reason I am looking to go off grid is the power co. won't allow grid-tie at this time, according to them it may be next year before they will. Are the higher voltage(22-27) panels more efficient?
    Thanks again for the input.
    Dave
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    I go back to my original post on the subject. Your really have to "do the math" on both the PV side and more importantly on the load side. Your loads are way out of whack from your projected PV capacity.

    As I stated before,,, off grid is ~twice as expensive as grid tie so here is my suggestion. Consider waiting with the PV until the utility is on board,,, thereby making your $$ go twice as far. (Being a squeaky wheel with the utility won't hurt either,,, by the way what is the utility?)

    Second,, at what ever expense,, lose the electric appliances,,,Dryer, water heater etc. Converting to LP or Nat. Gas will pay huge dividends. Another thing for example, is why do you, in a desert climate need a dryer at all? Most things will dry very quickly just hung out? I have never understood the desire to spend money to do what nature will do on her own.

    Third,,, since you live in a climate with great sun,,do solar hot water! It is cheap to do and will pay off very fast,, especially when coupled to a demand gas water heater for supplemental heat. Another alternative, and one that might even better is consider a AC system that captures the waste heat from the condenser and uses it to heat the water. This has two effects,, the first is to reduce your hot water heating costs,, and the second is it will make your AC run more efficiently, also saving energy and money. Your little PV system won't make a dent in the demand of the 3.5 kw demand water heater.

    Also,, you may discount the loads of the small appliances,, toaster, microwave etc, but in the grand scheme, with a battery based system they are huge draws,, even if they only run a few minutes a day. For example,, we use ~600wh TOTAL in a day,,, from 300 watts of panel. That is everything from pumping water to lighting to computer charging etc. (Propane fridge,,, not TV) If you run a 1500 watt toaster for 15 minutes (or 1500 watt microwave for that matter) you will burn ~350wh,, over half of our daily total! (We do toast on the stove,,,although I am always on the lookout for a better toaster solution! Best I have ever seen was a small catalytic heater from Coleman Canada that was square and would hold two pieces of toast. Ran off a 16 oz propane bottle for about a year! Can't find another however!)

    My final suggestion is that you spend a bunch more time reading a getting educated about PV solar. The temptation to ready, fire aim is strong,,, but in most cases it leads to bad choices.

    Tony
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    Ditto on the solar hot water. Can you shift some of the showers to noon? spreads the heating a bit, and less electric use. A water tank for 4 hot showers (after all nights heat loss) is going to be huge.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    #18
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    Re: Thoughts on system
    got solar wrote: »
    The a/c condenser is currently 208VAC 1/4 hp and the blower is 115VAC. Dave

    208 VAC is for 3 phase power, do you have that ????

    The use of gas items can save you money.
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  • got solar
    got solar Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
    #19
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    The MH park won't allow clothes to be dried outside, utility is NV Energy, showers are in the morning before work and school between 3am & 8am. Thought about the solar water heating but didn't think it would matter since the water wouldn't be used when the sun was doing it's thing. How can I tell if the A/C system is 3 phase? I am looking for a propane dryer, have only found 1 online, nothing local and only 1 conversion for 1 model. Large propane tank not an option, has to be hidden under the house. Looking to tee off gas line under house to run 120V NG dryer. I'll be installing the tankless water heaters and 12 volt fans this week and see where my usage is. I'm trashing the original set up specs. Is it better to use the high voltage panels(26V/205w/7.7A) for efficiency and MPPT CC? I know fewer panels and connections are better. Are there different codes for 12VDC and 20+VDC? The N.E.C. doesn't specify. Trying to find a local Electrical Inspector. With losing the micro., toaster oven, water heater, fans and unplugging/turning off power strips, I'm hoping the decrease in power consumption will be considerable.
    Dave
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  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    #20
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    Post make and Mod # of AC.

    Most MH parks are single phase, so you may have the wrong AC unit installed. If you have a meter, measure the line voltage at the dryer plug.

    You could also be at the end of the line and have low voltage at the service panel.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #21
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    Fight the MH park on their "unpatriotic rules"! hang the laundry inside,, or in a car port. It's just criminal to not be able to hang your laundry out and let nature do what it does,,, (Just my little buggaboo soap box!

    T
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  • got solar
    got solar Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
    #22
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    A/C system is Nordyne ACZD-042BB-01. Motor is rated 208/230V. Voltage into main breaker in panel is 314V, 157V each leg @ dryer.
    Thanks
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  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    #23
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    Re: Thoughts on system
    got solar wrote: »
    Voltage into main breaker in panel is 314V, 157V each leg @ dryer.
    Thanks

    HOOOOOOOOOOOOLY high voltage Batman.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #24
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    I would first check my meter,,,, and then I would contact the utility. I can't believe that any public utility would put out power that far out of norm,,,, so I would suspect my meter. ~30% over spec. something is not right.

    Tony
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  • FL SUN
    FL SUN Solar Expert Posts: 94 ✭✭✭✭
    #25
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    got solar,

    Several things come to mind after following this thread.

    First, if you are renting the trailer, all RE mods to it may not be allowed by the owner, and even if so, would not be worth time and money spent as you would have to pull all your RE stuff off it when you move, and figure out how to patch the holes, etc......

    If it is your trailer, disregard.

    Solar hot water would be great for you, but your tank size for 4 people would be starting at 120 gallons. Our home of 3 occupants decimate our 80 gallon solar storage tank in 1.5 days. I also have 80 sq ft collector area, and have between 170 to 180 deg F by the end of 1 sunny day. I am planning a retro to 120 gallon storage by the end of the summer for us. A dedicated storage tank is designed to store water overnight with negligible loss for a morning shower.

    On your tankless heater idea, gas, either LP or NG would be of choice. Electric tankless requires a high amperage circuit, and may exceed your service entrance demand when factoring in other household loads operating simultaniously. Plus heating with electric resistance heat when trying to conserve KWH consumption is the last thing you want to do.

    I'd be interested in what motors you are looking at for your air conditioning system. You've got a 3.5 ton set-up. Your condenser motor is most likely 1/4 or 1/3 hp, and your indoor blower motor is most likely 1/3 to 1/2 hp. I've been monkeying around with the idea of changing motors to dc as well on some air conditioning prototypes, but the mounting gets touchy as the 48 frame psc motors used in A/C systems are not available in dc versions. Also the rpms on dc motors are rated much higher than the 1075 (or 825) rpm standard on all HVAC equipment. I don't think your modification is going to be as cut and dry as you think.

    On the "no clothesline" rule, I am under the impression that that "act" is RE or solar related, and HOA's cannot make rules to ban these items. Here is a link for dsire's NV rule, but I couldn't get a definition on "clotheslines". You may want to make a phone call to the rep on the web page.
    http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/incentive2.cfm?Incentive_Code=NV03R&state=NV&CurrentPageID=1&RE=1&EE=1

    Your line voltage is horrible. You may want to double check your meter with another, or if you have a digital VOM, change the batteries. When my batteries get low in my meter, it reads voltages on the high side, and I get inaccurate readings. If that is your voltage, you need to call your Electric Co. and report it. Make sure you eliminate improper meter readings first so you don't look like an idiot to them:blush:.

    Lastly, if you want to go RE, it really starts with efficient construction and a well sealed and insulated envelope. Windows need to be double glazed, and HVAC ductwork needs to be inside the envelope to reduce loss/gain. Energy efficient appliances are next on the list, then practicing conservation with everything is the next.

    I have yet to see a trailer or "modular home" that is efficient at keeping the inside inside and the outside outside. The ductwork is undersized, and requires a higher hp blower to overcome high static duct pressure. They (trailers) are energy hogs to say the least.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #26
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    Is no one else concerned that the OP is waltzing down the yellow brick road with the idea that he can take his house off grid with a couple or three 135 watt panels and four golf cart batteries?

    We, who have been around a bit, all too often see and hear from people who are completely uninformed as to what solar can do,,, and realistically what it can't do. This thread is an example of getting off track on the air conditioner issue,, but doesn't really address the gist of the original question.

    I know that I do it too often, and have been admonished to "be nice" to newbee's but sometimes I think there is a potential for us to do people a disservice if we don't make it clear from the original reply on that peoples assumptions are if not wrong, out of line with reality.

    I'm not getting on the OP for the question, as that is what the forum is here for, but rather those of us who respond. I think that people come to rely on the expertise on some on this forum. Clearly there is a wealth of energy (no pun intended), experience, education, both formal and school of hard knocks,,, just generally smart, generous, thoughtful people. IMHO sometimes we can get caught up in the technical, and forget about the practical, and indeed I think newbees often times need to be gently informed as to what is possible and what is practical. I know that I have said if many times,, but people need to learn to do the math.

    Tony

    No offense meant to anyone. If this is not appropriate then the Mods should feel free to delete it.
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  • got solar
    got solar Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
    #27
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    As stated earlier the 135w panels and 4 batteries is not going to be used because I was informed it was way too small to even power the 3500W tankless water heater. Greatly appreciated by the way. Grid-tie is not an option at this time. Using the power bills my heaviest month is 1500Kwh which is 50kwh/day to feed my house. According to 2 different solar needs calculators, 6-205W/26.6V/7.7A and 10 to 12-6V390Ah(70%inverter efficiency and 1 day no sun and max 50% battery draw down) and a CC that can handle 86A should accomplish that. Seems to me an MPPT is going to seriously change those specs. As asked before, is there a conversion for how the MPPT will respond ie. what would the output be from a known input. If the above calculations aren't correct I'll try to get a sit down with a local solar company for a consult. I certainly don't want others to do the work for me. I am seeking advise from those who have gone down this road on the most efficient way to accomplish this task with the limitations I have ie. everything I do needs to be hidden, panels are the only exception. Dumping the 5000W 240V dryer for a 120V NG or LP dryer is the first thing, the 9000W 240V electric water heater,if the 110V 3500W tankless isn't going to work than I will have to find another option. The water heater is in the closet of a bedroom, so using gas may not be an option code wise. Just checked the power with 2 different meters voltage is 242V on main breaker with both. Will be checking tomorrow mid-day.
    Thank you
    Dave
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  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    #28
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    50 KWH a day is really not feasable with solar for example i have 18 panels at 165 watts each and on my best day have made 21kwh so you would need 3 times what i have. and the battery bank would be a killer.

    if you can get that 50kwh a day down to 15 or even less say 5kwh a day then you will be onto something. anything is possible and 50kwh a day can be done but you are looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #29
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    As halfcrazy suggests,,, his 2.9kw system makes 21kwh on his best day,,, on an average day,,, say what,,, maybe 15 to be conservative?

    In my case,,, with our little system,, we have 300 watts of panel,, and use ~600 wh/day. This gives us a three day reserve.

    If you are serious about doing this and you use similar numbers,,, for the 50 kwh load you might need a system in 6-8kw range of capacity. The cost of which, for a battery/off grid system will be staggering! For example 7000 watts of PV panels alone, bought at a very good price of $3.50/watt would be ~$24,000. In rough numbers, double that for the wiring, the batteries, inverters etc and you are looking at a system that might come close to $50K! I'm not sure what the tax rebates/credits are for a battery based system are,, but for sure you won't get any state or utility rebate to blunt the cost.

    I guess what I am suggesting in all these posts is: You have to look seriously at your load numbers, and do everything you can to reduce them. Once again,, resistance electric heat has to be out! For every $$ spent on conservation,,you will save 10 in PV costs,,, close to 20 if you include the battery system(s)

    What I am really suggesting is that the price of what you are trying to achieve is going to rival the value of your trailer.

    Tony
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #30
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    Installing solar water heaters, and 200gl of hot storage storage, should really dent your electric bill. Then you could still keep your electric WH for cloudy days.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • n3qik
    n3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    #31
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    Re: Thoughts on system

    Look at this:

    http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=294783-1136-125BO%20NG&lpage=none

    It is an outdoor tankless heater.
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