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Thread: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Northwest Ohio
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    Default Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    I need to collect the kwh generated by my inverter ( Xantrex 6048 ) and delivered to my sub-panel (Load/L1/L2) and main-panel (AC1/L1/L2). The overall generation number is to be provided to my power provider 1x per year to pay out my REC credits. (It is an "on your honour number" with a signature guarantee you will give accurate numbers.) My kwh meter outside runs forward and reverse, but is a "dumb" meter. It provides no other information.

    I'm contemplating using two EKM meters (Model EKM-25EDS-N v.2) to track this data. They seem to be a fairly reasonable price and the capabilty for reporting and tracking via their EKM Software and EKM iSerial to TCP/IP converter.

    Has anyone else used these from EKM? Any other recomendations?
    (I need kwh and reverse kwh at a minumum.)
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    Xantrex XW6048, XW-MPPT-60 SCC, Midnite E-Panel, 36 SunXtender PVX-890T @ 801ah, Briggs Elite 8kw, Midnite PV Combiner, 12 Sharp 224s / 2.6kw , Bogart Tri-Metric Meter, 2 EKM Meters (On AC1 and Load)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Willits, CA
    Posts
    5,693

    Default Re: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    Does the 6048 not have total KWh reporting ?
    http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
    http://tinyurl.com/LMR-NiFe

    Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph # 214505 ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV
    Powerfab poletop PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe battery | 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV | Midnight ePanel || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    66

    Default Re: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    Amazingly enough ... no it does not. You can only get the kwh produced per day/month/life from from the MPPT controller LCD. It shows total kwh produced, but not output on AC1/Load, reverse totals, etc. Xantrex sells a communications gateway seperately for about $500, but it uses a Yahoo! widget and from reviews here and elsewhere, it seems to have been panned pretty soundly. The EKMs meters look like they would be more standard to me also. A true kwh meter with lcd and tcp/ip capabilty for 120/240.

    Ballpark pricing is about $500 for two including 4 solid core CTs, 2 enclosures, and one iSerial TCP/IP converter.
    Last edited by dsp3930; February 9th, 2010 at 17:39 PST.
    Xantrex XW6048, XW-MPPT-60 SCC, Midnite E-Panel, 36 SunXtender PVX-890T @ 801ah, Briggs Elite 8kw, Midnite PV Combiner, 12 Sharp 224s / 2.6kw , Bogart Tri-Metric Meter, 2 EKM Meters (On AC1 and Load)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area (California)
    Posts
    21,230

    Default Re: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    Or just hook up a surplus Utility meter "backwards" -- it should log the power nicely. They are not very expensive and the Utility should be happy you are using a utility approved meter.

    -Bill
    20x BP 4175B panels (replacement) + Xantrex GT 3.3 inverter for 3kW Grid Tied system + Honda eu2000i Inverter/Generator for emergency backup.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    South of Erie, North of Pittsburgh PA
    Posts
    943

    Default Re: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    What? Does each utility co do thier meters. In WesternPa. we have First Energy whom put a dual meter that regesters the power generated and power used. They furnished the meter and do the meter reading. I don,t particularly like thier policy as they settle every month and you can,t build up any credit in the summer that you can get back in the winter. I do have a regular utility meter at my inverters to keep track of my use. I got my meter from a online solar sipply for about 35 dollars. Will your utility co. accept that? Solar Vic

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
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    66

    Default Re: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    I live in NW Ohio ... also with First Energy through Toledo Edison. They don't supply a new meter ... you fill out a few forms, they signoff that your setup is conformant to their requirements, you get an NEC code inspection, submit another agreement, and then your're on net metering. Then, thats pretty much it.

    For Toledo Edison (possible FE Ohio) net metering it is all carried over from month to month and then settled with a payment at the end of the year (if requested by the customer).

    I am looking at getting the EKM meters for the new First Energy REC credit program (possibly also in PA). Try looking on Google under "First Energy REC Program Pennsylvania". This year in Ohio, they are paying between over $300 per MegaWatt hour produced. (Adjusted yearly) You have to get PUCO certified for small generation and as part of that process, you have to be able to tell them the kwh you generated each year. (My house meter we have is only usefuly for net metering -- its an older dial meter.) For under a 6kw nameplate inverter capactity, you just have to update them with your total kwh generated each year from a kwh metering system you install (or already have as part of your inverter). They, then cut a check for the amt. 1x per year. This is the process as I have been explained to me by the FE REC program contact. We'll see once I get it all in place.

    What's the catch? You can only claim up the the amount of power you use in home each year as a REC credit. IE. If you use 9,000 kwh per year, then that is 9 REC credits. You can't produce 20,000, use only 10,000 and claim 20 REC credits. Also, the dollar amount listed above is only for Solar. Wind is supposedly about 1/10 of the credit.


    I could probably use a standard meter on my AC1 and Load lines between my inverter and panels. I have been considering that too.

    For the extra $ on the EKM type setup, I would get reporting capabilty to csv or email, graphical menus if desired, and additional metrics beyond just kwh. (Kind of like the Bogart TriMetric Battery meter but for the AC side.)
    Xantrex XW6048, XW-MPPT-60 SCC, Midnite E-Panel, 36 SunXtender PVX-890T @ 801ah, Briggs Elite 8kw, Midnite PV Combiner, 12 Sharp 224s / 2.6kw , Bogart Tri-Metric Meter, 2 EKM Meters (On AC1 and Load)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    South of Erie, North of Pittsburgh PA
    Posts
    943

    Default Re: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    I applyed to be net metered. Had to send First Energy all the plans and $100.00
    engineering fee. I got an email to procede and a meter person showed up a few days later and changed the meter before the electrical work was done. I already got the first bill. They said if I made more than I use it isn,t considered net metering. I think alternitive energy in my area hasn,t caught on yet and no one seems to know what they are doing. Inspector never saw a solar system , only 1 wind turbine. Electrician never did any. I am sure I know more than they did. Now that My inspection was passed I think I don,t want to do anything to cause another inspection. I called the representive 3 times from First Wnergy and he never returned my phone calls. Finally I got thru to a local superviser for the power co and he said they were done. No one from the power co ever came to look over my system. I think each state has different requirements for net metering. I am preety sure I won,t have a surplus. Solarvic

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    pittsburgh, pa
    Posts
    10,278

    Default Re: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    solarvic,
    read this if you haven't already,
    http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/i...A03R&re=1&ee=1
    i believe it states it is allowed to be cumulative to the end of the year.
    "Customer-generators are compensated for remaining NEG at the utility's "price-to-compare" at the end of the year." do not trust your utility to do right by you. here is the other pa areas you could brush up on,
    http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/i...srp=1&state=PA
    also note that all of western pa does not have your utility as there are many others such as duquesne light, west penn power, allegheny power, and so on.

    i did not read the entire thread, but you can look up info for ohio or any other state at www.desireusa.org
    Last edited by niel; February 9th, 2010 at 23:16 PST.
    NIEL

  9. #9
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    Nov 2009
    Location
    Dallas (Plano), TX, USA
    Posts
    297

    Default Re: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    Quote Originally Posted by dsp3930 View Post
    I need to collect the kwh generated by my inverter ( Xantrex 6048 ) and delivered to my sub-panel (Load/L1/L2) and main-panel (AC1/L1/L2) ...

    I'm contemplating using two EKM meters (Model EKM-25EDS-N v.2) to track this data. ...
    I think you have several options:

    1. Purchase of remanufactured kWh meters. I'm using these: http://www.hialeahmeter.com/ .

    2. I looked at the EKM meters back when I didn't have a monitoring system. I thought they looked pretty good.

    3. The Energy Detective (TED) is a pretty good self-contained neat and no fuss instrument, and, is compatible with Google's power monitoring capability making data available from remote locations.

    4. I'm using WattNode AC power and kWh meters from Continental Controls. These provide bi-directional outputs for PV and Net Metering. See http://www.ccontrolsys.com/products/pulse_output.html . (You'll need some kind of pulse counting capability with this alternative. I'm using the Web Energy Logger - http://www.welserver.com/ ).

    Hope this helps.

    Best regards,

    Bill
    Energy reduction & monitoring
    American Energy Efficiencies Inc. - Dallas, TX (http://www.americaneei.com
    Example monitoring system: http://www.welserver.com/WEL0043/

  10. #10

    Default Re: Sub-meter / KWH Metering for Utility Reporting

    so, what was your final solution and how does it is working so far?
    We in PR are having a similar issue
    the XW6048 is a common inverter in the Island because of the backup power, we have a lot of power failures from the utility

    now days, there is an incentive from the government for solar installations
    but in order to qualify for the incentive
    the government must monitor the solar production from a web page (they like the sma sunnyweb option and think all manufactures have a similar solution)

    for some reason, Xantrex don't have a solution for this

    I was thinking on use TED, but, a XW have two outputs, AC1 and Loads
    the actual or real production of the solar system is AC1 + Loads
    b.ecologýcAll energÝa solar puerto rico

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