Xantrex DR2412 won't start
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crtet
Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
Have a solar system at a 3 season camp consists of solar panels, Xantrex DR2412 inverter with Trace meter and DC250 disconnect and 6 gel batteries. Things were working fine when we closed camp up in October but when we went back in April to open up the inverter will not come on. The batteries say they are fully charged. The orange lights on the inverter flash and once in a while the breaker will kick, but it will not power up. We are in Vermont and it appears the nearest Xantrex service is in New Jersey. Does anyone have any suggestions on what the problem could be?
Comments
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Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
Are you saying the breaker to the Inverter appears to be tripping from Over Current?
Also, do you have a good meter you can measure battery voltage and voltage at the input to the inverter?
If you have some diagnosing to do--A DC Current Clamp meter (here is an inexpensive one that is "good enough" for basic use around a solar PV system) can help you measure DC current flow (clip on one wire) safely and quickly.
There are failure modes where an unloaded (no AC loads) inverter can draw excessive DC current--At that point, the inverter probably needs to be taken in for service or replaced.
-BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
Agree with BB. If it's the breaker between the batteries and inverter that's tripping, that is definitely NOT a good sign
First thought came to mind - - wonder if there were any lightening storms while you were away? -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
crtet,
i have some dumb questions for you.
did you leave the inverter on all of that time?
were the pvs connected and allowed to charge the batteries?
is the inverter in search mode and is there a load on it?
did it show a fault?
read over the manual and make sure everything is as it should be. from the manual the flashing orange is "when the Trace Series is in the absorption stage of
charge mode."
also in the manual,
Trace Series will not turn on during
initial power up.
Batteries are not connected, loose
battery-side connections.
also along this line the batteries could be dead or damaged. gels are very picky on their charge/discharge.
here's the manual-
http://www.mooresolarllc.com/images/stories/datasheets/inverters/xantrex_trace_operation_manual.pdf -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
I'd hook up a 12V car battery to it and see if a cold re-boot has any effect.
Pick up one end about 1/2 inch and let it drop and see if the relays are stuck in it. A lot of times from inactivity they will get stuck and break loose from the shock . Thats what my service center would tell you to do.
May be a bad charger board. -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
No, the inverter was not on during that time and the pvs were connected and allowed to charge batteries. DC volt meter shows good voltage at connections. It is the breaker on the side on the inverter that has tripped a couple of times when we have tried to start it up. -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
Exactly which breaker if opening? There appear to be to AC Breakers, one for AC pass through input and another for input to the AC charger (owner's manual pdf?)...
It sounds strange--It appears that these two breakers only would open if there was a good sized AC generator connected and running.
Has anyone played with AC safety ground? Most MSW type inverters do not like the AC grounded (aka grounded neutral) and a DC ground (creates dead short through the inverter can will pop fuses/breakers and/or let the magic smoke out).
-BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
What is the battery voltage when you are trying to turn it on?
Is the voltage stable?
What is your charge controller model?
Is your charge controller making any clicking sounds?
Does your CC have an automatic EQ cycle which may have raised the voltage over 15.5 vdc? (including temp compensation adjustments)
Have you tried turning on a generator to feed the inverter with AC input?
Was the inverter just turned off at the button? Was it in search? Or was the inverter's DC breaker off?
Alex -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
We had brought it home and were going to ship it off to be worked on at quite an expense. After reading more comments, we hooked it up to a car battery and it started. Does that mean if we take it back to camp and hook it up the system should work? -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't startWe had brought it home and were going to ship it off to be worked on at quite an expense. After reading more comments, we hooked it up to a car battery and it started. Does that mean if we take it back to camp and hook it up the system should work?
Have you changed any of the wiring in the cabin ?? A feed back of some type could keep it shut down. Were you trying to turn it on with the Remote on/off switch ?? I'v seen them go bad.
Yesterday on my boat I had a back feed fault on one and it shut down. It was the first time this year it had been started. I tried and tried to get it to do it again, it never would. It was when the generator kicked in and the Inverter should have dropped out and passed through. I'd say it was a relay, that was slow to release. -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
The removal and car trip might have done the "relay release" for you. Don't forget to look for insects/nests where you can. Who here had the fried bugs in their inverter?
Ralph -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
Now I'm thinking that it wasn't even the inverter. We took it back and it still would not start on its own but we could jump start it from the car and we hooked a lamp to it and it worked. But when we tried to jump it using one of the batteries from our solar bank, it would not start. Does that mean all our batteries are bad? -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
It is possible... Although, did you wire it in correctly? Some batteries are 12 volt, some are 6 volt, and there are other voltages too... So just clipping across "a battery" may not present the correct voltage.
Also, using jumper cables is very iffy with inverters--especially those that will draw upwards of 200+ amps at full load. Real "bolted" connections with heavy wire, short, wiring.
If you do not have a good volt meter, I would suggest this AC/DC Current Clamp/ Digital Multi-Meter--It is "good enough" for debugging solar systems and the DC current clamp meter works great with the high DC currents used in most off grid systems.
-BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't startAlso, using jumper cables is very iffy with inverters--especially those that will draw upwards of 200+ amps at full load. Real "bolted" connections with heavy wire, short, wiring.
-Bill
Bill is SO right about the use of jumper cables. I almost returned a perfectly good Xantrex 1800/12 for warranty because it was useless when I tested it with jumper cables, to make sure it was OK before I did the final installation. It would appear to be operating properly on loads less than 100 watts, but it wouldn't power as many things as my Morningstar 300 watt inverter. Obviously it was seriously not working right. My heart sank. Finally, out of spite, I properly hard wired it to the battery bank, and nearly fell over when it worked perfectly! And that's no joke. Obviously there was more resistance and thus more voltage drop at the spring-clamps than I had imagined. All it needed was a voltage drop of a couple of volts, and the inverter would shut down. -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
I have a somewhat different problem with similar equipment:
I "inherited" a solar system and i'm helping a friend get it started. The batteries had been removed and there was pretty bizarre wiring in place, which i spent some of the weekend replacing.
The original system had a Trace DR2424 inverter/charger and a Trace C40 charge controller. I added batteries and all new wiring between these components (the previous owner was pretty bizarre, he had the panels wired to the C40 *outputs* for instance so the panesl were connected directly to the batteries, etc.).
Anyway everything works, *except* the DR2424 wont switch from inverter into charge mode. It works fine as an inverter and its not an immediate problem, but connecting a generator to the AC input on the it does nothing. (that part is wired correctly, the generator in use is an eu2000i ).
Has anyone seen a problem between the eu2000i and these units? I'm wondering if the A/C voltage isnt peaking high enough to tell the Trace that there's a/c present.
Since its otherwise working fine, i'll probably just get a separate battery charger and leave it alone, but i'm wondering if there is any quick advice here :-)
thanks, -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
you might try a post over on the MIdniteSolar site as the DR series designer is now at Midnite...
http://midnitesolar.com/smf_forum/index.php#1
hth
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West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
It has been wired and hooked up working for at least 8 years and the batteries are Power Solar Series PSG-12105 12V 91Ah AGT Batteries. We have now unhooked all of them and tried them individually on the inverter and nothing happens. Can these be charged with a regular battery charger so we can test them? With all these responses I've had now I don't know whether to think it is the batteries or still the inverted.... and the AC Input Circuit Breaker will not stay in. -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
Yes, you can charge a 12 volt battery with a 12 volt car charger on one battery at a time... Just make sure you watch the charger and turn if off when batteries are full--Some car chargers are not very good about that (don't leave connected for days/weeks at a time).
But--Other than trying to get enough energy in the battery bank to see if your inverter is functional--These batteries are more than likely toast.
Also, these are GEL type batteries and should not be charged at higher than ~19 amps (C/20), so keep charging voltage/current "low" or they will be further damaged (develop gas voids in GEL electrolyte from excessive charging current/gassing).
Your best bet (if you are trying to get started without too much money out of pocket), try a set of "golf cart" batteries. They will last a 3-5 years or so and are not insanely expensive.
-BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
Yes, because to replace the six Polar Series would be about $1500-$1800. How many golf cart batteries? And can you recommend some good ones? -
Re: Xantrex DR2412 won't start
At a minimum, assuming 4.8kW surge (2x rated inverter power) and C/2.5 for maximum surge current from a generic flooded cell battery bank:- 4,800 watts * 1/24 volts * 1/0.85 inverter eff * 2.5 surge current rating = 588 AH
Any way you cut it--that is a good sized battery bank (roughly 2-3 parallel strings of 4x6 volt golf cart batteries for 8-12 total).
If your maximum surge is much less than 4.8 kW (no well pumps, etc.) and your average maximum power is much less than 2.4 kW, then you can size the battery bank down a to 1-2 parallel strings of batteries.
Some folks here have had good luck with Walmart golf cart batteries (less than $90 per battery)...
I will say, you should really work on your loads first (average watts, peak watts, hours per day * average watts, etc.)...
It is much better to have a known set of loads then design your system (battery bank, inverter, charger, panels, backup genset, etc.) to your needs than to just start laying out $$$ for something that may be way to small or way to large for your needs just because you have some old equipment already there.
I would suggest a Honda eu2000i (or similar Yamaha) "quiet" inverter/generator and a Kill-a-Watt meter (if your loads are all 120 VAC and 15 amps maximum)--Run for a few days or week on the genset and see what your loads look like (may cost you $5-10 a day in gasoline for the experiment). They will last for many years if well taken care of (around 2,000 to 6,000 hours of runtime if you are lucky).
Power usage is a highly personal set of choices. And while we suggest conservation, energy start appliances, and avoiding electrical use in the first place--The 1kWH per day on a 300 watt inverter for one person may not make any sense to somebody else needing 3.3 kWH per day on a 1,200-2,400 watt inverter running 24 or 48 volts...
Any guesses we make will probably not match your needs and desires.
Note--A good aim point for an off grid home is around 3.3 kWH per day (or ~100 kWH per month). For many people, the can have a "near normal" modern home on that (fridge, washer, water pump, etc.). If you use more than that amount of power, the Solar PV systems go up in size and costs.
-BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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