math qusetion

kurt

just curious as to what kind of math is used when dealing with solar energy , and battries and usage ?

crewzer

Re: math qusetion

I regularly use algebra, trigonometry, and geometry.

HTH,
Jim / crewzer

kurt

Re: math qusetion

thanks , i forgot to mention the reason for asking . i'm trying to get in college and i will have to take a math test, if i pass i won't need to take the math course for the solar energy course.

crewzer

Re: math qusetion

Good luck to you!

Regards,
Jim / crewzer

BB.

Re: math qusetion

Have you had any Calculus yet?

For me, Calculus tied all of my math into real world use (if if you don't ever use integral/differential equations on the job).

For any AC Power work (electrical engineering--or any engineering in general)--Calculus and beyond is a requirement to understand the underlying formulas that describe the operation of motors, transformers, power transmission, etc.

-Bill

kurt

Re: math qusetion

Reguarding Calculus , no i haven't . hhhmmm I hadn't considered that one . thanks crewzer and Bill.

GreenerPower

Re: math qusetion

If you are thinking something like a Solar installer/electrician, you can get by with highschool arithmatics (Ohm's law, voltage/current calculations ... ), complicated stuff are done via table tookup (like tables in NEC standards).
GP

tallgirl

Re: math qusetion

kurt wrote: »

thanks , i forgot to mention the reason for asking . i'm trying to get in college and i will have to take a math test, if i pass i won't need to take the math course for the solar energy course.

Free advice -- I started college at 17 (like, =weeks= after turning 17) and bypassed an entire year of math. It was the single largest mistake of my entire college career, all because I was impatient.

Take the test. But if you pass it, ask a professor if you can sit in on the class ("audit"). That way you gain control over your schedule, while not repeating same mistake I made.

And I'm with the others who've written about the importance of Math. I'd not done any Integral Calculus in =years=, but I recently needed to and it sure came in handy.

Best wishes in your chosen profession and definitely keep us in the loop.

kurt

Re: math qusetion

I'm wondering if there will be a Compass test . anyone know ? , GreenerPower that is what i jhave in mind atleast for a few years and then advance further . , tallgirl thanks for the advice .

Windsun

Re: math qusetion

Not being sarcastic here, but also learn to spell.

Nothing gets a resume trashed faster for us than to see someone apply for a job in solar that cannot spell batteries and other common electrical or energy terms.

BB.

Re: math qusetion

If college is geared towards getting a job... You could study the "other stuff" like Calculus via a self pace or on-line course.

At this point, under graduate colleges are probably going online with any non-lab courses in the next decade...

We are doing classes with the local 2 yr college with our older kid--Just need a laptop and scanner for home work (audio / visual for foreign language classes).

My two cents--avoid college loans at all costs. Work summers, live with parents, whatever it takes. College loans are one of the few things that almost impossible to discharge through bankruptcy. And failure to pay on time can create huge increases in interest rates and penalties.

But as tuitions rise, many people are borrowing heavily to pay their bills. Some no doubt view it as "good debt," because an education can lead to a higher salary. But in practice, student loans are one of the most toxic debts, requiring extreme consumer caution and...responsibility.

Unlike other kinds of debt, student loans can be particularly hard to wriggle out of. Homeowners who can't make their mortgage payments can hand over the keys to their house to their lender. Credit-card and even gambling debts can be discharged in bankruptcy. But ditching a student loan is virtually impossible, especially once a collection agency gets involved. Although lenders may trim payments, getting fees or principals waived seldom happens.

I know that everyone's life and circumstances differ--but, please, please, please, avoid financing your college/post high school education through debt.

-Bill

GreenerPower

Re: math qusetion

Some incentive for going after math ... still mulching on this $1 million prize off and on since college days, lol !
GP

BB.

Re: math qusetion

Agree with Windsun--Break the txt habit. Type in complete sentences with proper punctuation and capitalization... And if you are like me--turn on the spell checker.

I have two kids--oldest just into high school. Does not have a cell phone to "chat"--but I still have to keep on the case to never fall into chat typing (emails with friends look strange--my kid is the only one that, usually, types in complete sentences) :roll:

Also, that link I gave about student loans, I have been reading through some of the 180 or so comments...

And, I agree with some of the folks who say do not go into debt for 4 year degree (live at home, go to school with best scholarships, etc.). Perhaps, by the time you hit graduate school, you will know exactly what field and have only a couple years to finance with a higher salary job available.

And watch the high tech fields--If you hit a bad spot in the economy (like now)--two years of not working in the field after you graduate, and much of your high tech software/computer education can lose value (software changes and you cannot afford to "practice"; out of field and forgot much of what you learned because you never got a chance to use it).

It sounds harsh--but I have seen people try to live "in debt" and that is not pretty either when the economy hiccups (and, right now, we are long past hiccup ).

-Bill

audredger

Re: math qusetion

I majored in skirts, minored in geology, too much study on the skirts caused me to fail in geology. The "Dean" argued that skirts was a non-credit course.. go figure! The draft board didn't like my major either. Trust me, your there to learn not chase skirts! will be enough time for that later!

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!

Kamala

Re: math qusetion

The OP's question was "what kind of math is used..."

crewzer wrote: »

I regularly use algebra, trigonometry, and geometry.

I agree with Crewzer. But really the best answer is "as much as you know."

Myself, I use algebra extensively in the electrical design process. The trig and geometry come into play when designing the physical aspect of a solar installation. Things like orienting the array angle to the sun or setting up the mounting rails.

I got half way through the integral calculus. Wish I had finished. But I must say that even completing the differential was life changing for me. While I don't use it at all in this stage of my life, I do know that it exists, is real, works perfectly for what it is meant to do and perhaps is even "true."

I also think that learning math is a great mental exerciser. It can make your mind more nimble and enhance your problem solving capabilities.

Mathematics is sometimes called the "Queen" of the sciences. Does this mean that it is the "purest" of sciences or that it "rules" over all other sciences? Could be both. I once attended a college (one of five but still no degree) where Math was under the purview of the language department. Makes sense to me and maybe that is common today.

A few points in closing: Had I not learned the math that I have, I think I would be less than I am. Such as that is!:roll: It is said that Newton "invented" the Calculus (apologies to Leibniz) so he could solve his physics problems. Which was his effort to understand or, at least, describe his world. We should partake of that legacy.

With regard to spelling, grammar, syntax and sentence structure: All are skills that I highly value. My wife and I have successfully imparted these skills to our children (now adults.) Those that admonish Kurt in this regard should then look to their own writing and pay attention to usage. In particular, when to use there, their or they're. Also, your and you're. Or its and it's. SpellCheck doesn't work on these words. A handbook of English Usage is very valuable. I just turned to look for mine, I believe it was Shorts, but couldn't find it.

And finally to the OP (original poster) KURT: TallGirl's advise is good. If you are gifted, leap. But it is likely that what you leap over is something you would benefit from.

Craig

icarus

Re: math qusetion

All good advice, especially about learning all you can. I wouldn't "not take" a math course just because you can get away without it. I never went to college (on any regular basis anyway) but I did take some courses as I needed them. (Time and money being a real consideration way back when). In those days a (good!) grade 12/13 education was enough to get you into the trades and advance. Nowdays a BS/BA is the benchmark. I won't get into the argument as to who is better educated, the grade 12 of 1970 or the BS of 2010.

The short answer is there is never a skill not worth learning, although it takes a while to see the real world value. I hated Algebra and really struggled to learn it because I couldn't relate it to the "real world" Later in the construction business I found I was using it all the time. Geometry was, on the other hand like falling off a log for me, because I could envision what it was all about. Never did trig or calc although I wish I had. (Married a Masters in math, University Prof though!)

As for Windsun's comment. There is NOTHING that impresses less than poor writing skills. It may not seem like a big deal, but if you can't put it down in words in a way that cogent, succinct and clear you will not do well in any endeavor. Text-eze, slang, using short cuts will hot hold you in good stead with anyone. Even if you are the most technical person in the world, if you can not convey information to others in a way that they understand and accept you start out with a huge handicap.

Good luck with your education, and remember, the only "stupid question" is the one that isn't asked.

Tony

niel

Re: math qusetion

"Good luck with your education, and remember, the only "stupid question" is the one that isn't asked."

and the dumber question is one that was misinterpreted by being misspelled.

boB

Re: math qusetion

kurt wrote: »

just curious as to what kind of math is used when dealing with solar energy , and battries and usage ?

Mainly Ohm's Law and it's relatives...

boB

russ

Re: math qusetion

When İ was hiring people İ looked at and considered, at a minimum, the following:

1. Discipline, education level, depth of education, rounded education
2. Letters of recommendation went into the garbage can - you should not even interview a person who is too stupid to get good references
3. Ability to communicate:
- written - most of the grammar and spelling İ see on the net would disqualify a person
- spoken - if you can't take or give instructions you are more or less worthless
4. Personal appearance - slobs left immediately
5. Attitude - a wise ass followed the slob out the door

Other items:
1. My sense of whether the kid wanted to learn and continue to learn -
2. Team players only needed to apply

You don't have to be the brightest but you do need to be the most willing.

Windsun

Re: math qusetion

In our business, I would add to that one more - We don't want people that want to get into solar to save the earth or because it is "green".

This is a business. Green is a side effect, not a cause or a reason. Being "interested" in solar is not enough.

russ

Re: math qusetion

Everyone gets all excited about 'green jobs'.

As mentioned in the previous post - first and foremost they are jobs requiring no less effort than any other job and possibly more - the competition is stiff.

The green part is nice but does not mean all that much by itself.

audredger

Re: math qusetion

Key Point: As an employee, you are there to make the "company" money! If you don't make money for the "company" then, they don't need you. The more money you make for the "company" the more likely they are to share some of it with you.

"If you paid me more, I would work harder." is grounds for immediate dismissal!

Another Point: Green will only succeed when it makes "Cents". "Green" toilet paper that costs twice as much as "regular" will not sell!

lorelec

Re: math qusetion

Windsun wrote: »

In our business, I would add to that one more - We don't want people that want to get into solar to save the earth or because it is "green".

This is a business. Green is a side effect, not a cause or a reason. Being "interested" in solar is not enough.

Whoo boy... around here, "green" is the reason people buy into renewables. Sure, the tax credits are nice, but the bottom line is crowded with people who genuinely want to do good (and usually have the money to put their words into action).

I could write an entire essay on what's wrong with the renewable energy movement today. Sure, it's a business. But the #1 rule of business in my opinion is not to let your personal politics offend your customers...regardless of what it is you're selling. It's one thing to say you despise green as a marketing gimmick, and yet another to say that you despise people who want to save the earth (however misguided you think they are). From an employer's perspective, you might find that the "green" employee would bring an enthusiasm to your workplace that the business-oriented employee would not, if you gave them a chance.

Oh, and yes, people will spend more on environmentally-friendly toilet paper (and other things, too!).

Marc

Windsun

Re: math qusetion

lorelec wrote: »

Whoo boy... around here, "green" is the reason people buy into renewables. Sure, the tax credits are nice, but the bottom line is crowded with people who genuinely want to do good (and usually have the money to put their words into action).

I could write an entire essay on what's wrong with the renewable energy movement today. Sure, it's a business. But the #1 rule of business in my opinion is not to let your personal politics offend your customers...regardless of what it is you're selling. It's one thing to say you despise green as a marketing gimmick, and yet another to say that you despise people who want to save the earth (however misguided you think they are). From an employer's perspective, you might find that the "green" employee would bring an enthusiasm to your workplace that the business-oriented employee would not, if you gave them a chance.

Oh, and yes, people will spend more on environmentally-friendly toilet paper (and other things, too!).

Marc

Just based on my 30 years experience in this business, people almost never buy a solar system because it is green as a primary reason. In the past any employee we have had that pushed the "green-ness" far too often overhyped it, kind of like the infomercials on TV. About once a week or so we get calls or a resume from someone that wants to go to work for us because they "are interested in solar", or "want to make the environment safe". Problem is, 95% of those can't do the basic math to figure out a battery system and their electrical knowledge is limited to flipping a light switch. It takes more to design a system, especially an off-grid system than being environmentally correct.

Just like buying a car - people don't buy a Prius because they want to be "green", they buy one because they need a car, and the Prius being fuel efficient is a nice side benefit.

niel

Re: math qusetion

"Just like buying a car - people don't buy a Prius because they want to be "green", they buy one because they need a car, and the Prius being fuel efficient is a nice side benefit."

adding to this a bit, many car manufacturers may call their fuel efficient cars as being greener, but they are not green as that would mean eliminating the internal combustion engine altogether. when they say greener it is meaning it is closer to the goal of being green even though it is a contradiction in terms as a car is not green with possibly an ev as the exception and even that depends on the power source for charging. truly going green might be using something like a bicycle rather than a car to commute.
as to going green, solar is definitely a way to do so, but it is either the need for electric from an alternative source or a way to lower future electric bills that sets up the primary reasons for solar. solar existed before the green movements and note that there were several of those movements over time. most would benefit to go greener to save $ by conservation efforts, but like the car, this is not being green. many people don't realize that even if they did away with all of their polluting possessions and lived in a cave that they would not be green as soon as they lit their fire for warmth and cooking as that pollutes.:roll: i won't mention about waste products either.:p

Kamala

Re: math qusetion

People are not green and cannot be so. Unless they are from Mars or other similarly exotic locales. Green is the name of a color.

Even though I have a political view in this discussion, I will not explicitly share it.

Conservation of energy/resources is the most significant/responsible thing that any one individual can do to ensure a future for their legacy.

Co-opting the name of a color for marketing (read economic/profit) reasons or political ones is, in my view, a corruption of the language. (Which is English in ... STOP... myself)

Green brings to mind lush jungles, teeming with life and renewal. Conservation sounds like conservative.

I'm displeased with both.

lorelec

Re: math qusetion

Funny, I was thinking about the Prius as I was writing my last post. I run out of fingers (and frequently toes, too) trying to count the number of Priuses on the road as I drive through town.

I don't think the fuel efficiency and low emissions of a Prius are incidental factors. People buy the car because of those things, not in spite of them. Why they want those things is another matter. To save money? Maybe. Because they want to use less gasoline and generate less pollution? Almost definitely.

So I'm curious what reason most of your customers give for wanting to invest in solar?

Marc

niel

Re: math qusetion

we are deviating from the op here and if the op does not mind we can let this conversation continue or we can separate it and make its own thread.
what say you, kurt?

~ Windsun edit: probably does not matter much, looks like the OP has not come back since his 2nd post anyway.

solarvic

Re: math qusetion

My brother had a 2006 prius and 1 was enough for him. Battery wore out already and toyota wanted about $3,500.00 for a replacement battery. The purchase price and battery purchase didn.t make up for the difference in the fuel milage. They only wanted to give a $4,000.00 tradein with it needing a battery. I got a 94 geo prizm with $181,000 miles that flirts with 40 mpg on a trip. Lordstown Ohio is going to build the Cruze that is suposed to get 40 mpg and should re employ 1200 GM workers. that is the gas version. Saw a picture of one with a plugin. S:Dlarvic

icarus

Re: math qusetion

solarvic wrote: »

My brother had a 2006 prius and 1 was enough for him. Battery wore out already and toyota wanted about $3,500.00 for a replacement battery. The purchase price and battery purchase didn.t make up for the difference in the fuel milage. They only wanted to give a $4,000.00 tradein with it needing a battery. I got a 94 geo prizm with $181,000 miles that flirts with 40 mpg on a trip. Lordstown Ohio is going to build the Cruze that is suposed to get 40 mpg and should re employ 1200 GM workers. that is the gas version. Saw a picture of one with a plugin. S:Dlarvic

There is something wrong with this. This is the ONLY failed HV Prius battery that I have ever heard of. I know of many Prius's that have gone well over 300,000 km without a significant repair, and all on the original battery,, in taxi service in Vancouver no less. I also believe that the HV battery and it's components are warranted for ~100k miles regardless.

My sister has an '07 Prius with 65k on it, never a problem,no service except for tires and routine oils and filters. We have an '07 with a few less kms on it and no problems. If you anyone is interested in "real world" Prius experience you might do a bit of reading here: http://priuschat.com/forums/

PS I'll give you $4k for the one with the Bum battery. My guess is that they got a bum dealer,, which is not uncommon!

Tony

audredger

Re: math qusetion

I apologize for having gotten everybody worked up. I no doubt could have worded that a whole lot better. I try to do the right thing for the right reasons, as most of us do here. Again, I apologize!