Wiring the bank

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  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,925 ✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank

    I also have Trojan RE batteries, but they are even more extreme - IND series. Yours probably not as bad as mine, but may have some things in common. I'm struggling with them very hard. They simply won't charge at all and I can only get back to original SG with a very long equalization.

    However, looking at the AH coming in and out of the batteries, I am now pretty sure that the SG measurements for these batteries do not reflect SOC. It seems that in the charging process the full charge point (meaning all lead sulphate converted to sulpuric acid) happens long before SG rises to the specified levels. The acid is simply stuck between plates and you need an enormous amount of bubbling to get it out. So, it's possible that shorter charging times will work just as well (or even better). The bad thing about this is that you don't really know at what point they're really charged because SG does not reflect SOC for these batteries.

    As for the recommendations on how often you need fully charge, Trojan is very specific about my batteries:
    Trojan recommends any automated system should be set to equalize Industrial batteries at least
    every 30 nominal charge throughputs. A full charge is recommended at least every three nominal
    charge throughputs. A charge throughput is when a battery is taken from the end of charge, is
    discharged, and then taken to the end of charge again. A nominal charge throughput is reached
    when the sum of the discharge currents corresponds to the nominal capacity of the battery

    There could be a similar recommendation in your manual.
  • SurfpathSurfpath Solar Expert Posts: 393 ✭✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank
    I think you already know the answer. If they were mine I'd be doing a short EQ on them to get the SG up. If you do it every 10-20 cycles, once a month, every six months the longer you wait the bigger chance you'll start getting crystallized Sulfate that causes to lose capacity over time.

    In your case you can raise the charging Voltage and see if you can get it up. The 2 things you can change is Time and Voltage, doing a EQ just breaks the Charging Profile of your regular routine by raising the voltage. The Time you can't do much about because the batteries are limiting the current they will accept. Watch the temperatures and make sure they are below 115 F.

    Everything you do or don't do is a Tradeoff with a Battery.

    OK, how to raise the charging voltage?
    (to recap my Generator has a 24AMP limit, I believe)
    From the FX manual: "The charger limit is the maximum AC current the FX uses to charge the batteries. Depending on the FX model, the setting range is as low as 0.0 AAC to between 6.0AAC and 10.0AAC"

    My default was 9.0AAC I guess I can raise this to 10.0AAC.

    Is this my only option to reduce charging time safely?
    Outback Flexpower 1 (FM80, VFX3048E-230v, Mate, FlexNetDC) 2,730watts of "Grid-type" PV, 370 AmpHrs Trojan RE-B's, Honda 2000 watt genny, 100% off grid.
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank
    Surfpath wrote: »
    OK, how to raise the charging voltage?
    (to recap my Generator has a 24AMP limit, I believe)
    From the FX manual: "The charger limit is the maximum AC current the FX uses to charge the batteries. Depending on the FX model, the setting range is as low as 0.0 AAC to between 6.0AAC and 10.0AAC"

    My default was 9.0AAC I guess I can raise this to 10.0AAC.

    Charging voltage means Absorb, Float, and Equalization Voltage. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • SurfpathSurfpath Solar Expert Posts: 393 ✭✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank

    OK, had a wee lapse there Vt.

    Here are the voltage settings for my L16REB's
    System Voltage: 48 Volt
    Daily Charge: Trojan Recommended 59.2 (mine: 59.2)
    Absorption Charge for RE Applications Trojan Rec. 56.4 – 58.8 (mine 58)
    Float Charge Trojan Rec. 52.8 (mine 52.8 - although have not got to float yet)
    Equalize Charge Trojan Rec 62.0 (mine 62. Only one EQ performed, 3 weeks ago)
    Outback Flexpower 1 (FM80, VFX3048E-230v, Mate, FlexNetDC) 2,730watts of "Grid-type" PV, 370 AmpHrs Trojan RE-B's, Honda 2000 watt genny, 100% off grid.
  • vtmapsvtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank
    Surfpath wrote: »
    Here are the voltage settings for my L16REB's
    System Voltage: 48 Volt
    Daily Charge: Trojan Recommended 59.2 (mine: 59.2)
    Absorption Charge for RE Applications Trojan Rec. 56.4 – 58.8 (mine 58)

    If you have set your Absorb volts to 58, that is your "daily charge". Just EXACTLY what is it that you have set to 59.2?

    Bottom line: Raise your Absorb volts to at least 58.8. If that doesn't work, try 59.0. If that doesn't work, try 59.2.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank
    Surfpath wrote: »
    .
    Daily Charge: Trojan Recommended 59.2 (mine: 59.2)
    Absorption Charge for RE Applications Trojan Rec. 56.4 – 58.8 (mine 58)

    Float Charge Trojan Rec. 52.8 (mine 52.8 - although have not got to float yet)

    Equalize Charge Trojan Rec 62.0 (mine 62. Only one EQ performed, 3 weeks ago)

    OK so I am thinking you have slipped by an observation, in that you have not made it to FLOAT yet!!

    this means you did not finish Absorb either, and then you went through the motions of an EQ, but did not really do an EQ...

    Can you charge your battery in 12V or 24V sets? You need to do a full Bulk by genny and then let your CC do the Absorb and Float phases.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank

    Let's not confuse this. In your Mate.

    CHARGER LIMIT ( 10 Aac )

    ABSORB SET POINT ( ?? )

    ABSORB TIME LIMIT ( ?? )

    FLOAT SET POINT ( ?? )

    Tell us what you have.
  • NorthGuyNorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,925 ✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank
    westbranch wrote: »
    OK so I am thinking you have slipped by an observation, in that you have not made it to FLOAT yet!!

    He said he was charging with the generator. You wouldn't float while on the generator.
  • SurfpathSurfpath Solar Expert Posts: 393 ✭✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank

    Blackcherry:
    In my Mate.

    CHARGER LIMIT ( 9 Aac )

    ABSORB SET POINT ( 58.0v )

    ABSORB TIME LIMIT ( 4hrs )

    FLOAT SET POINT ( 52.8v )

    Hi Westbranch. Sorry this is a bit of a long thread, but earlier posts explain that (for now, at least until mid Feb when I get the panels on), I do not have my panels up & therefore no CC to perform an absorb/float. This is strictly charging by genny (for now).

    VtMaps: Sorry, please ignore the "Daily Charge", it was just cut and pasted from the Trojan Web site ("Trojan FLA recommended parameters"). I do like your idea of raising the absorb voltage towards 59v. These are tall L16 batteries. Perhaps doing this will shorten my charging time a little.
    Outback Flexpower 1 (FM80, VFX3048E-230v, Mate, FlexNetDC) 2,730watts of "Grid-type" PV, 370 AmpHrs Trojan RE-B's, Honda 2000 watt genny, 100% off grid.
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank
    Surfpath wrote: »
    Blackcherry:
    In my Mate.

    CHARGER LIMIT ( 9 Aac )

    ABSORB SET POINT ( 58.0v )

    ABSORB TIME LIMIT ( 4hrs )

    FLOAT SET POINT ( 52.8v )

    Hi Westbranch. Sorry this is a bit of a long thread, but earlier posts explain that (for now, at least until mid Feb when I get the panels on), I do not have my panels up & therefore no CC to perform an absorb/float. This is strictly charging by genny (for now).

    VtMaps: Sorry, please ignore the "Daily Charge", it was just cut and pasted from the Trojan Web site ("Trojan FLA recommended parameters"). I do like your idea of raising the absorb voltage towards 59v. These are tall L16 batteries. Perhaps doing this will shorten my charging time a little.
    Yes, Yes, Yes , as VT posted, Raise the VOLTAGE to 58.8 - 59 and try it. Check your SG's and see if it helped. You might do a 1 hour EQ and get them up and then see if you can keep them there. It gets hard to measure the small SG changes at times. If it takes a couple charges, no big deal as long as they are heading up.

    I tend to get impatient and use the EQ as a big stick.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wiring the bank

    Concur with upping AbsV, and just to add that you should Absorb until your amps-in stops decreasing, then EQ.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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