Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

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  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    My dish is 100 feet from the house, mounted on the ground. Have to get that far away to get out of the tree line. One strike was on a tree 20 feet from the dish, the other was about 8 feet away. We are up on the rocky edge of a ridge - perfect conditions for attracting strikes from what I've read. No way to easily run a copper ground out to the dish at that length.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    grounded or not, at those distances it didn't stand much of a chance. you better stock up on the lna/lnbs as it'll happen again.

    although the long coaxial line length will diminish the chances of sending a strike/emp downstream it can still do so. this is reason to suspect possible cable damages so watch for degradation in signal. although i understand the no ground thing at the dish, but you better have it go to ground before entering your place. grounding the outer jacket will do just fine as a direct strike will punch through the insulation to the ground braid, but emp may go unimpeded without further measures.
    http://www.computercablestore.com/Grounding_Block_Single_F__PID1809.aspx
  • ggunnggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    I had lightning take out my dryer once. It fried the heating element like a burnt out light bulb. Nothing else in the house was damaged.
  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    niel wrote: »
    grounded or not, at those distances it didn't stand much of a chance. you better stock up on the lna/lnbs as it'll happen again.

    although the long coaxial line length will diminish the chances of sending a strike/emp downstream it can still do so. this is reason to suspect possible cable damages so watch for degradation in signal. although i understand the no ground thing at the dish, but you better have it go to ground before entering your place. grounding the outer jacket will do just fine as a direct strike will punch through the insulation to the ground braid, but emp may go unimpeded without further measures.
    http://www.computercablestore.com/Grounding_Block_Single_F__PID1809.aspx

    Yup, I'm sure it will with our location. Which is partly why I purchased their protection plan. Contractors cut all 4 coax lines from the dish last week and it only cost (the contractor) the $50 service call under the plan to fix it.

    Yes, last time I got zapped it took out the coax and the multiswitch. Grounding the coax at the entry point has been on my to-do list since last time... hasn't happened yet.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    One bit of curious trivia:

    The new Telus satellite picture is noticeably better on HD than either Shaw Direct or Shaw Cable.

    There's still nothing worth watching, though. :p
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    One bit of curious trivia:

    The new Telus satellite picture is noticeably better on HD than either Shaw Direct or Shaw Cable.

    There's still nothing worth watching, though. :p

    Curious maybe, but not hard to explain.
    The broadcast HD signal uses a very wide bandwidth (well, as wide as one old analog channel anyway) and it spreads its energy over uniformly over the whole bandwidth. That gives it a 6Mhz bandwidth and a correspondingly high data transfer rate. If you watch an HD show over the air, you will see all of this detail unless the video has been compressed before getting to the broadcast station.
    But older satellite and all cable providers are trying to deliver hundreds of channels and subchannels in a limited bandwidth. So they compress the HD signal as much as they can get away with, losing some quality in the process, especially for rapidly changing images (think sports, for example.)
    The compression algorithms which they use are inherently lossy, so there is no way that the best TV set can reconstruct the original picture.
    Apparently the Telus satellite has enough power and bandwidth to spare that it can send either a fully uncompressed (broadcast equivalent) signal or one which has been compressed using only a lossless compression algorithm.
    Tell me more about Telus service please.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    That makes sense, because when we dropped the cable at the old house and I went to picking up the local stations via some cheap rabbit ears it also looked better.

    Telus is a Canadian company. Handles phone, cellular, and satellite TV for quite a large area. It probably won't do you any good in the US: http://www.telus.com/

    BTW, their receiver dish has two feedhorns on it. I'll take a picture of it tomorrow to show (it's pitch black out there already).
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    Appreciate your answer "inetdog"!
    Good to know what they're up to these days.
    And "Coot", looking forward to that picture of the Telus dish. I haven't seen one in this area yet.
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    BTW, their receiver dish has two feedhorns on it. I'll take a picture of it tomorrow to show (it's pitch black out there already).

    The two feedhorns are either for two different polarities or more likely to allow one dish to aim at two different satellites.
    Dish and Direct TV in the US use some dishes with three feedhorns. Regardless of where in the (contiguous) US you are, you will have a view of at least three satellites and they give you the dish appropriate to your area and to how much you are paying. :-)
    Appreciate your answer "inetdog"!


    BTW Wayne, you can just call me Dog. (Or Dave)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    I believe there is a bit more to the lousy picture quality that may be buried in what you say Inetdog.

    For instance , on the same channel, the Canadian weather network , I have noticed on an analogue cable channel, we sometimes get a fantastic digital map image, so good we can almost see our local berg, and at other times the pixels are so large as to cover 100 Km or more, What I am thinking is that if there is a higher user demand on the HD channels they drop the bandwidth on the analogue channels or compress them more... Make any sense? Just thinking...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
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  • Logan5Logan5 Solar Expert Posts: 32
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    If the dish provides Phone, internet and TV, the two feed horns, My bet is that one is a transmitter and the other an LNB
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    Logan5 wrote: »
    If the dish provides Phone, internet and TV, the two feed horns, My bet is that one is a transmitter and the other an LNB

    The Telus dish provides only TV; they do not offer satellite Internet.
    The two Xplornet Internet dishes each have only one feedhorn.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    maybe and maybe not as it may be duplexed on the same feedhorn although separate would be a bit easier for them to do and also depends on the frequency going up to the bird.

    added-they can also use a dual polarity on the same feedhorn, but i believe they send out more programming on the other polarity.
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    westbranch wrote: »
    I believe there is a bit more to the lousy picture quality that may be buried in what you say Inetdog.

    For instance , on the same channel, the Canadian weather network , I have noticed on an analogue cable channel, we sometimes get a fantastic digital map image, so good we can almost see our local berg, and at other times the pixels are so large s to cover 100 Km or more, What I am thinking is that if there is a higher user demand on the HD channels they drop the bandwidth on the analogue channels or compress them more... Make any sense? Just thinking...

    Very interesting. Yes that might be the provider's way to deal with a bandwidth crunch. But there is also the possibility that the provider has actually converted the old analog channels to digital and is requiring a digital to analog converter box to be used with older TVs. Anyway, the pixellated image is often the result of signal interference such that the coarse resolution information is getting through but the finer resolution updates as the picture changes are being dropped. Related to the way that sometimes an Internet jpeg image will appear very coarse at first on a slow connection and then slowly gain in detail.
    And a big variable in the whole available bandwidth picture is providing for video on demand (VOD)purchases. That has to come from somewhere.
    If you have a DVR, cable companies cheat by sending the current VOD favorites to your DVR very slowly and then showing them to you from disk if you order them. (Don't look at the man behind the curtain!) This hidden pre-recording is why you may have room for 30 hours of your own HD on the built in disk, but when you add exactly the same size external disk or double the size of the internal disk you suddenly have 90 or 120 hours instead of 60.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    Logan5 wrote: »
    If the dish provides Phone, internet and TV, the two feed horns, My bet is that one is a transmitter and the other an LNB

    If the two feedhorns are any significant distance apart on the same dish, they have to be aimed at different satellites. My mistake earlier when I talked about polarizations. That would have been two switchable antenna elements in the same feedhorn.
    Transmit and receive can use the same feedhorn as long as the transmit and receive frequencies are far enough apart. Same way that cell phones could use only one antenna (back when they had antennas that you could see.)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    inetdog wrote: »


    BTW Wayne, you can just call me Dog. (Or Dave)

    Haha Now if only I could remember that! :blush:
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    westbranch wrote: »
    What I am thinking is that if there is a higher user demand on the HD channels they drop the bandwidth on the analogue channels or compress them more...

    But if the satellite is transmitting only, it wouldn't matter how many people are receiving the signal, it doesn't get divided down and diluted depending on how many dishes are receiving the signal.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    But if the satellite is transmitting only, it wouldn't matter how many people are receiving the signal, it doesn't get divided down and diluted depending on how many dishes are receiving the signal.

    wayne,
    if they are able to have the specialized vod they need to receive from many subscribers too making the bird not only transmit many wide band signals, but also a need to receive many requests and interactions with the subscribers. that's a tall task for a bird.
  • Logan5Logan5 Solar Expert Posts: 32
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    I may be incorrect but I believe the satellite used for interactive services is much like a DD-WRT router, in that it has the ability to manage many different unlink connections. as far as the down link, I bet they are all combined into a single stream.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    Logan5 wrote: »
    I may be incorrect but I believe the satellite used for interactive services is much like a DD-WRT router, in that it has the ability to manage many different unlink connections. as far as the down link, I bet they are all combined into a single stream.

    not true as each channel of hd video is transmitted on its own frequency. now it is true that some satellites can get fancy as just a wide banded repeater that inverts the frequency, but it still holds true of what i said and would only reduce the number of transmitters needed. the wider bandwidth transmitters would need to compensate by upping the power greatly. if the satellite was not designed to transmit and receive as many as it is, it could degrade the quality of what is transmitted and received. there are other factors too unrelated like a lowered available power for whatever reason from either the pvs and/or batteries or the bird needs a realignment in its orbit to name a few.
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    Anyone listen to CLARK HOWARD on the radio? Today he had callers about how the power co,s in Alanama and Florida have lobyist trying to hold back use of solar. Also someone from Dish called in discussing that Dish is going to have cell phone service on thier satelite. QUESTIONS ABOUT TELES
    How long has Teles been in service? Will the snowbirds be able to take thier dishes south with them for winter? Shaw direct has good signal into Mexico. What degree is teles in the CLARKBELT? How large area is thier downlink beam? :Dsolarvic:D Wayne, or anyone that listens to TUNEIN, You can listen to CLARK HOWARD from WPIC radio. Go to location on tunein and pick North America, US, Pa. and western Pa or Erie and you will find WPIC.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    Unfortunately Solarvic, I cannot answer any questions re Telus birds, as until this evening I didn't even know they existed. :blush:
    But I'd like to learn!
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    http://telus.com/content/tv/sat/
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)

    Front & rear views of the Telus dish. You RF guys can make of it what you will. :D
    I took shots of the Xplornet & Shaw dish as well. The Shaw dish (which is not up) has four coaxial connectors on the horn. I can't tell how many are on the others - eyesight not good enough from the ground.
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    Front & rear views of the Telus dish. You RF guys can make of it what you will. :D
    I took shots of the Xplornet & Shaw dish as well. The Shaw dish (which is not up) has four coaxial connectors on the horn. I can't tell how many are on the others - eyesight not good enough from the ground.

    Looking at the front of the horn (picture #2) you can see that there are two different antenna locations, making this a dual-satellite dish. The installer will aim one receiver at the satellite with the best signal and the other will automatically be pointed at the second satellite (assuming that the dish is mounted level, of course.)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • ggunnggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    solarvic wrote: »
    Anyone listen to CLARK HOWARD on the radio? Today he had callers about how the power co,s in Alanama and Florida have lobyist trying to hold back use of solar. Also someone from Dish called in discussing that Dish is going to have cell phone service on thier satelite.
    Cellphone on satellite sounds like a terrible idea to me. There would be a quarter second time lag in conversations. It doesn't sound like a lot, but a quarter second delay in answering a simple question can make you sound like an idiot.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    ggunn wrote: »
    Cellphone on satellite sounds like a terrible idea to me. There would be a quarter second time lag in conversations. It doesn't sound like a lot, but a quarter second delay in answering a simple question can make you sound like an idiot.

    Not necessarily. We use VOIP phones with the satellite Internet set-ups. The Vonage one has so much delay it's useless (people hang up before you get through). The Dolphin one works as good as a regular phone about 90% of the time. But sometimes there is a delay. Oddly, it works better calling out than in. :confused:
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    ggunn wrote: »
    Cellphone on satellite sounds like a terrible idea to me. There would be a quarter second time lag in conversations. It doesn't sound like a lot, but a quarter second delay in answering a simple question can make you sound like an idiot.

    That would be more important if normal ground-based cellular were working at light-speed. But I have found that the data packet switching on a congested network can add more than a full second delay to normal cell conversations. That not only makes you sound like an idiot, it makes you seem rude since you keep interrupting the other person. And do not even attempt it for a conference call.
    For people with bad ground-based cellular service (not limited to any single provider, they all do it in places) the constant, predictable, 1/4 second delay might be preferable.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    ggunn wrote: »
    There would be a quarter second time lag in conversations. It doesn't sound like a lot, but a quarter second delay in answering a simple question can make you sound like an idiot.

    Sounds like a return to the old 2 way radio practice of saying "OVER" is needed when you are finished....:D
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
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    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
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  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Direct TV, DishNet, DVR's power usage, and input power Modifications (Discussion)
    westbranch wrote: »
    Sounds like a return to the old 2 way radio practice of saying "OVER" is needed when you are finished....:D

    that kind of defeats the best part of what a phone actually does as it allows both to speak and be heard simultaneously (full duplex). to make somebody to actually listen and let somebody complete their words is unheard of in this day and age and most people couldn't deal with that. letting others talk without interrupting is the 2nd most common problem new 2-way radio users encounter as they think they can hit the ptt button and be heard by the other person while they are still talking. the first problem in using 2-way radios is being mic shy.
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