Diesel Truck: Solar Maintenance Charger for Batteries

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when do i need a blocking diode?
i have a 1991 diesel truck with 2 large batteries. it doesnt get driven much 2 x per month to the local dump. i have placed a 5 watt solar panel with a fuse to one of the batteries. do i need a blocking diode and how can i tell if it has one built in?
thanks for any help!
-mark turik

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
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    Re: when do i need a blocking diode?

    Solar panels in the dark will leak a bit of current from the battery unless there is a blocking diode. You can connect an amp meter, and with panels in darkness -- measure if there is any leakage current.

    If you had a charge controller--normally you then don't need a blocking diode.

    Depending on how large your battery set is... You may want more solar panels. 5 watts is enough for a car sized battery (60-80 AH or so at 12 volts). Yours may be quite a bit bigger.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
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    suggestion for solar panel / charge controller

    i have a 20 year old diesel 6.2l pickup. it is only driven 2-3 times a month.
    i would appreciate your suggestions on a good solar panel (and size suggestion) and a charge controller. i would like to either keep it on the dash board or be able to move it when i use the truck.

    my truck has 2 large batteries and i live near raleigh, nc.. even new batteries tend to go dead due to no usage.

    thanks so much for your help! i have researched this project to death and still dont know what i am doing!

    - mark turik
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: suggestion for solar panel / charge controller

    GM's somewhat troublesome diesel? If I recall, a couple of big (group 31?) batteries with about 150 Amp/hrs capacity each. Glow plugs eat a lot of current, and as they age they eat more and heat less.

    You're not trying to charge off solar panels; just maintain. That makes it easier as you'll only be trying to keep ahead of the self-discharge rate. Still, you're looking at a 15 Watt panel - as opposed to a 5 Watt 'automotive' type that is sold for this purpose. You shouldn't need a charge controller in this application; those batteries will take everything it can give them. You may need a 'blocking diode' if the panel is not so equipped, to keep the batteries from discharging back through the panel when no sunlight is present.

    Also, check the wiring over carefully; any slight corrosion amplifies the charging/starting problem with diesels.

    Might be cheaper to attach a battery maintainer powered off household. A simple timer with a cheap 10 Amp automatic charger coming on once a day for an hour or so should keep things ready.
  • GreenPowerManiac
    GreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
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    Re: suggestion for solar panel / charge controller

    Mark,

    I know what you're talking about. My father had a 1983 6.2L diesel that he hated in the winter. Gelled up during a bad cold spell. Long story. Anyway, why not something like this:
    http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-2017-Solar-Battery-Charger/dp/B000VHT9GS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1264942149&sr=8-1

    This should be backward protected from discharge. The other brands didn't get good reviews.

    Otherwise you'd be spending $$ over some expensive equipment components. Or just drive it often enough to maintain a charge.
    Nature's Design & Green Energy on FaceBook : Stop by and "Like" us anytime.. Many up-to-date articles about Renewables every day.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: suggestion for solar panel / charge controller
    Mark,

    I know what you're talking about. My father had a 1983 6.2L diesel that he hated in the winter. Gelled up during a bad cold spell. Long story. Anyway, why not something like this:
    http://www.amazon.com/Wagan-2017-Solar-Battery-Charger/dp/B000VHT9GS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1264942149&sr=8-1

    This should be backward protected from discharge. The other brands didn't get good reviews.

    Otherwise you'd be spending $$ over some expensive equipment components. Or just drive it often enough to maintain a charge.

    I don't see any specs on that at Amazon. How many Watts is it? If it's 5 like most of the plug-in maintainers it will come up shy. Their claim "charges even in cloudy weather" is dubious and misleading.

    Orientation of panels, as we know, is vital to output. In an automotive application chances are it won't be pointing in the right direction/angle.

    The OP lives in NC, where winters aren't very harsh and he's still having trouble - although mostly from long inactive periods. Driving it often enough would probably mean a daily start and warm-up.

    The fuel gelling problem is another issue. We used to use a product called 'Silo' which was basically propyl alcohol - the only kind that would mix with diesel. Even then, with 'Winter diesel', fuel would gel. Nothing more fun than putting a canvas over equipment and pointing a 150,000 BTU 'salamander' under it - directed at a very expensive piece of machinery that was full of flammable liquids that sometimes leaked out!

    If there's room for bigger batteries, that would help. The self-discharge eats up the tiny 'margin of error' for starting power. Industrial diesels usually have 24 Volt systems because of this. They can be a pain too - look up "arc point".
  • GreenPowerManiac
    GreenPowerManiac Solar Expert Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
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    Re: suggestion for solar panel / charge controller

    You're right. There isn't anything out there that would do the trick. 1.5 watts I think I've read on one similar. Hardly the wattage needed, however, he may be fighting a lost cause. Two batteries that don't hold a charge for at least two weeks seems to me a battery system failing. The plates may be degraded enough to cause issues or their sulfurizing. I use a desulferizing PWM on all my equipment and you can tell when the green light goes out within a couple weeks, the batteries are weak. A better option may be to have the batteries load tested. I'm sure someone at a close by garage has one. Or the starter motor is drawing too much current or worse yet, failing itself.

    My 1992 L8000 Dump Truck has 3-12v batteries in parallel. It does just fine after sitting for a month. His system may still be 24v in assuming 1990 like stated. Shortly after, all the semis and diesels went to parallel systems, I believe. In his case, if 24v system then that's absorbing some heavy current to actuate the starter motor. Good batteries may be the only option that I see.

    http://www.compactappliance.com/Wagan%20Solar%20Car%20Battery%20Charger%20-%202017/2017,default,pd.html

    This link as more info, but not the wattage we're looking for. It's a mystery and pretty much worthless for a 24v system.
    Nature's Design & Green Energy on FaceBook : Stop by and "Like" us anytime.. Many up-to-date articles about Renewables every day.
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    Lots of DIY Renewable Energy Projects on ETSY : Solar Panel builds, Wind Turbine builds, Rain Barrel build,etc.  
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
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    set up to recharge truck batteries

    question,,,,
    i want to recharge a very seldom used diesel pickup truck (1990 chevy, 6.l). it has 2 large batteries but sits most of the time in sun light and is driven only a couple of times a month. i have a 20 watt solar panel panel and a charge controller. the controller has 6 connections. 2 for the solar panel, 2 for the battery, and 2 for load. if i want to charge the batteries only, do i not use the 2 load terminals, and will the batteries charge through the battery connections?

    my charge controller is a HQRP Solar 20A Charge Power Controller / Regulator 12V / 24V 20 Amp

    thanks so much for your help in advance.
    sincerely,
    mark turik
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
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    Re: Diesel Truck: Solar Maintenance Charger for Batteries

    Mark,

    I combined your three threads--It makes it easier for everyone to follow the discussion on your truck battery charging requirements and questions.

    Regarding the "LOAD" connections... I could not find a manual--but generally the "LOAD" output is for connection to small loads (radio, lights, etc.)--typically for a maximum of 8 Amps or so. The load output turns off if the battery voltage falls to near 10.5 volts (dead--cutout voltage could be higher or programmable).

    In your case, you do not need to connect anything to the load terminals. The batteries should charge just fine the way you have them connected to the controller.

    Make sure you put an in-line fuse (near the battery) on the lead that goes to the charge controller (see controller manual for proper value and wire gauge). You want to make sure that any possible short/failure does not catch your wiring on fire.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: set up to recharge truck batteries
    markturik wrote: »
    question,,,,
    i want to recharge a very seldom used diesel pickup truck (1990 chevy, 6.l). it has 2 large batteries but sits most of the time in sun light and is driven only a couple of times a month. i have a 20 watt solar panel panel and a charge controller. the controller has 6 connections. 2 for the solar panel, 2 for the battery, and 2 for load. if i want to charge the batteries only, do i not use the 2 load terminals, and will the batteries charge through the battery connection
    Sounds like you need a dodge. My 91 dodge 5.9 diesel sit since before Christmas and I just started it a couple days ago. No problemo and it just has 1 12 volt battery That was in it 5 years ago when I bought it. I live farther north where it gets down to below zero and it has always started. No gelling problems either. The oil companys treat the fuel for cold weather here to stop the gelling. Maybe you need some fuel treatment to prevent jelling? I can,t tell you the name but here in Pa. Most fuel stations have it. My brother lives near Raliegh by a town called Fuquai-Varina. S:Dlarvic
  • myocardia
    myocardia Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Diesel Truck: Solar Maintenance Charger for Batteries

    Hello, Mark. You will need at least two 10 watt panels: http://store.solar-electric.com/so10wamusopa.html if not two 20 watt: http://store.solar-electric.com/so20wamusopa.html plus two of the larger blocking diodes here: http://store.solar-electric.com/diodes.html To answer your question about "how do you know if you need a blocking diode?", the answer is that all good solar panels need them, unless they are being used with a charge controller. Charge controllers have blocking diodes inside already.

    Only the made in China, and screwed together in Canada panels that are sold under 1,000 different names (Coleman, Sunforce, Northern Tool, and Sunsei are the 4 most popular) don't need diodes. So how do you tell if a panel fits that description, if it isn't one of the four I just listed? That's easy. If it has any plastic whatsoever visible from the front, it has the diode built into the panel. Also, a good way to tell is if you bought it from WalMart, Amazon, CostCo, or the other "usual" places.

    BTW, Windsun must have been drinking when he put the disclaimer on the 20 watt panel that I linked.8) That should read "You will need to use a charge controller with this panel if you are using it with smaller than an 80 Ah battery bank", not the 800 Ah he mentions. A 36V golf cart has considerably less than an 800 Ah battery bank.
    DoD= depth of discharge= amount removed from that battery   SoC= state of charge= amount remaining in that battery
    So, 0% DoD= 100% SoC, 25% DoD= 75% SoC, 50% DoD= 50% SoC, 75% DoD= 25% SoC, 100% DoD= 0% SoC
    A/C= air conditioning AC= alternating current (what comes from the outlets in your home) DC= direct current (what batteries & solar panels use)
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
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    Re: set up to recharge truck batteries
    markturik wrote: »
    question,,,,
    i want to recharge a very seldom used diesel pickup truck (1990 chevy, 6.l). it has 2 large batteries but sits most of the time in sun light and is driven only a couple of times a month. i have a 20 watt solar panel panel and a charge controller. the controller has 6 connections. 2 for the solar panel, 2 for the battery, and 2 for load. if i want to charge the batteries only, do i not use the 2 load terminals, and will the batteries charge through the battery connections?

    my charge controller is a HQRP Solar 20A Charge Power Controller / Regulator 12V / 24V 20 Amp

    Since you have a charge controller you don't need to add diodes.

    I have a Ford 7.3L that doesn't get driven more than a couple of times a month, if that. I have a 65W panel hooked thru a 7.5A controller and it does the job of keeping the batts charged up just fine, even with the weeks of no sun we've had lately (unusual for this area).

    Too late for me to buy a Dodge, Solarvic!

    Also, Mark, you likely don't have a tuner BUT...

    I have an Edge Evolution II on mine and the tuner draws 90ma all the time. The phantom load on the Ford is also 90ma, so I normally unhook the tuner if it's gonna be parked for a few weeks (normal). It took me some time to learn that a 180ma constant draw would cause starting problems after 3 or 4 weeks.

    I drove the Ford today and it was a little sluggish starting. It's cold, been weeks since very much sun, and I noticed this morning that I forgot to unhook the tuner. Oh, well, it started. Glad I brought it to work today as another week may have meant jumper cables.

    Phil
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: set up to recharge truck batteries

    I have a Ford 7.3L that doesn't get driven more than a couple of times a month, if that. I have a 65W panel hooked thru a 7.5A controller and it does the job of keeping the batts charged up just fine, even with the weeks of no sun we've had lately (unusual for this area).

    Too late for me to buy a Dodge, Solarvic!

    Also, Mark, you likely don't have a tuner BUT...

    I have an Edge Evolution II on mine and the tuner draws 90ma all the time. The phantom load on the Ford is also 90ma, so I normally unhook the tuner if it's gonna be parked for a few weeks (normal). It took me some time to learn that a 180ma constant draw would cause starting problems after 3 or 4 weeks.

    I drove the Ford today and it was a little sluggish starting. It's cold, been weeks since very much sun, and I noticed this morning that I forgot to unhook the tuner. Oh, well, it started. Glad I brought it to work today as another week may have meant jumper cables.

    Phil[/QUOTE]
    Sorry about the post about getting a dodge. I don,t mean to be smug but I honestly think they start better in cold weather. Have a friend that had his dodge a few years before I got mine and he didn,t even know it had a block heater. Auto transmissions seem to be dodge weak points. I had to get mine rebuilt in mine. I was thinking if you had the Dodge cummins engine, Chevys Allison transmission in a ford body that would be a preety good truck. I have an interstate battery that was in the truck. I left it set all winter last year because the trans. went and it still started in the early summer so I could get the trans fixed. So I hope you guys get these trucks to keep the batterys charged. My brother who lives near raliegh Nc has a late model ford diesel that he said he keeps plugged in in the winter so it will start. the ford repairman said they are designed to turn over a few times before they start so the oil pressure builds up a little before it starts. Maybe a good idea to save engine wear, if it is so. Maybe we would drive our diesels if it was a little cheaper. In my area diesel fuel is usually if not higher price than high test gasoline. I know a couple guys that burn the oil from thier gaswells in thier trucks. One reason I bought mine was I was going to try that too but not getting too much oil from the gaswell anymore. Be nice for you gys to get them batterys charged on your trucks. S:Dlarvic
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
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    Re: set up to recharge truck batteries
    solarvic wrote: »
    ... the ford repairman said they are designed to turn over a few times before they start so the oil pressure builds up a little before it starts. Maybe a good idea to save engine wear, if it is so.

    Oil pressure is what "fires" the injectors in these engines (maybe not the OP's, but all newer Ford diesels). So first the low pressure pump feeds the high pressure pump, and that then feeds the injection oil rails that fires each injector. Maybe there is some benefit from having oil pressure before it starts, but it's only a side benefit.

    And you are SPOT ON: Allison and Cummins in a Ford... the perfect truck. The only thing I'd change would be putting a Caterpillar engine in front of that Allison, if there one that would work. I've owned 3 over-the-road semis, two with Cummins & 10-speeds, one with a Detroit Diesel in front of an Allison. After driving mine a buddy bought a Kenworth with a Cat and Allison combo. I drove it a few times -- the best!!

    And, Cariboocoot... I used to use Siloo in my trucks but haven't seen it offered anywhere I frequent now (I no longer frequent truck stops tho). Is it still around?

    Phil
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: set up to recharge truck batteries
    PhilS wrote: »
    Oil pressure is what "fires" the injectors in these engines (maybe not the OP's, but all newer Ford diesels). So first the low pressure pump feeds the high pressure pump, and that then feeds the injection oil rails that fires each injector. Maybe there is some benefit from having oil pressure before it starts, but it's only a side benefit.

    A benefit that doesn't outweigh the bloody awful problems of this idiotic design. Extra cost of the 'no foam' oil alone. I've seen dozens of different diesel designs and these things are turkeys!
    And you are SPOT ON: Allison and Cummins in a Ford... the perfect truck. The only thing I'd change would be putting a Caterpillar engine in front of that Allison, if there one that would work. I've owned 3 over-the-road semis, two with Cummins & 10-speeds, one with a Detroit Diesel in front of an Allison. After driving mine a buddy bought a Kenworth with a Cat and Allison combo. I drove it a few times -- the best!!

    Totally agree on the Caterpiller. They are the "Chevy small block" of the diesel world. Really good engine.
    And, Cariboocoot... I used to use Siloo in my trucks but haven't seen it offered anywhere I frequent now (I no longer frequent truck stops tho). Is it still around?

    Phil

    I haven't seen it anywhere in 20 years. That can't be a hopeful sign. Mind you, I'm not looking too hard. I'll keep my gas engines for now, thanks; it can get cold in Winter up here even though it's been ridiculously warm this year. Oh well: free solar heating! :)