Propane oven with pilot ignition.

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nobody928
nobody928 Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
I bought a propane pilot ignition GE- xl44 stove for 75 dollars on craigslist. It has no power cord and runs only on propane. The oven has a pilot that stays on all the time as well as the range.

Will this use up tons of propane? Is it best to leave the pilots lit all the time, or to blow them out after use?

Does anybody have similar set ups for reference?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    I have a Peerless propane pilot-light range. Leave the pilots burning; they don't use much gas.
    If you blow them out ever time you'll need an accessible gas valve that you can shut off otherwise gas will leak into the room (oven pilot probably has a thermocouple on it, burners don't).
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #3
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    Pilot lights--Can be not much or a fairly substantial use of energy (and money)--From:

    http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/PilotLights.htm

    Various sources report that a pilot light burns from 5 to 12 therms of a gas per month depending on the particular appliance and how the pilot is adjusted. At $1.50 a therm for natural gas, this would be $7.50 to $18 per month per pilot light. For $2 per gallon propane, it would be about $11 to $26 per month!
    So, there is a definite cost associated with a constantly burning pilot light.

    Personally, I would shut off the range top pilots and use a simple gas lighter to light the burners when you cook.

    For the oven--Depends. If you use an oven quite a bit--Then leaving the pilot running vs having to re-light every day is probably not worth the pain.

    You can look at your propane use--If you use 20 gallons a month, this can easily be 20% of your entire bill.

    Also, pilots can keep your home warm in winter, but to hot in summer.

    Lastly, how sensitive are your to the smell of burned propane. Years after I moved out of my parents home (old natural gas range with 4 pilots)--I really noticed the slightly acrid smell of the pilot lights and a bit of "bad air" feeling in the home during winter. Plus, if you don't use a range vent fan, you can get a sticky/gummy film over everything in the kitchen--That is really not easy to clean off without a lot of elbow grease (typical kitchen cleaners do not seem to work well for me).

    A "therm" is 100,000 BTU... and propane runs around 91,500 BTU per gallon... so you can estimate your own pilot light consumption.

    I know that a natural gas water heater will stay pretty warm on just the pilot heat.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.
    BB. wrote: »
    Lastly, how sensitive are your to the smell of burned propane. Years after I moved out of my parents home (old natural gas range with 4 pilots)--I really noticed the slightly acrid smell of the pilot lights and a bit of "bad air" feeling in the home during winter. Plus, if you don't use a range vent fan, you can get a sticky/gummy film over everything in the kitchen

    I have not lived with natural gas, but I find the odor of propane exhaust to be unpleasant. I have read (but not sure its true) that natural gas exhaust creates that stick/gummy film, more so than propane.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • nobody928
    nobody928 Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    As always Coot and BB thanks for your timely advice.

    My next question is if the gas is on and being supplied to the pilot, does it use the same amount of gas as when its lit? If so it makes sense to leave it on.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #6
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    On my parent's 65 year old stove, the pilots for the top burners could be turned off (adjusted) with a needle valve/screw. I just turned them off.

    For the broiler/oven, if the pilots "blew out", the thermal sensor would turn off the pilot valve (and prevent the main burner from lighting).

    For their stove, you had to do a little dis-assembly of the top grates to access the pilot relight button (and some stretchering to push the button and light the pilot).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.
    nobody928 wrote: »
    As always Coot and BB thanks for your timely advice.

    My next question is if the gas is on and being supplied to the pilot, does it use the same amount of gas as when its lit? If so it makes sense to leave it on.

    If the pilot is shut off it uses no gas. If the pilot is on and lit is uses gas. Burner or oven on will use more gas, of course. Pilot on but not lit - will blow your house up.

    Funny thing is, I've used NG, propane, and electric and never noticed this build-up people talk about. Most of the build-up comes from fried foods. Maybe people do more frying if they have gas.

    What I have noticed from living in different places is that the smell varies from one area to another. I think some companies may put more of the hydrogen sulphide odorant (back) in than others. This might also account for a difference in build-up.

    For quality of cooking I find NG (higher btu's per volume) beats propane, and electric just plain sucks. But since I have neighbours who don't even manage to cook their food with gas I can easily see how people's opinions on this would vary.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    I thoufgt that you get more btu,s for volume with propane over ng. I know when I switched to NG from propane I had to change out the propane orifices to on my furnace and gas range to orifices that had bigger openings for the NG. solarvic
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #9
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    Natural gas is "less dense" (I think) per cuft vs propane.

    But natural gas is sent around the home at a much lower pressure--So you have to change orffices (and sometimes regulator settings) to convert from one fuel to another.

    NG is ~7"-11" inches of water or ~1/4+ PSI.
    Propane is ~11-14 inches of water

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    What I have noticed from living in different places is that the smell varies from one area to another. I think some companies may put more of the hydrogen sulphide odorant (back) in than others. This might also account for a difference in build-up.

    I think the usual additive is ethyl mercaptan, which like hydrogen sulfide, has a rotten egg smell.

    Hydrogen sulfide is particularly dangerous because your ability to smell it is very transitory... it inactivates the receptors in your nose that detect it.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    Ethyl mercaptan is a hydrogen sulphide compound: CH3CH2SH
    It's like ethanol but with sulphur in it.

    The irony here is that natural gas first has the hydrogen sulphide compounds scrubbed out of it, then they add back in controlled amounts of the least corrosive version so you can still smell the gas if it leaks out.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #12
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    You almost never know what is any industrial product...

    Polychlorinated biphenyl     - Wikipedia

    PCB's are considered to be a very hazardous substance, now--Which was very common as a transformer oil (insulation/cooling) decades past. Utilities would dump the excess PCB (from their transformers) and put it into the natural gas mains to lubricate valves and pumps... So that stuff was pumped and burned in our homes via the natural gas mains.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • fowlerrudi
    fowlerrudi Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    I lived in an off-grid home that had a pilot light in the water heater, 3 in the cook stove, and one running the fridge. We could get 4 weeks of use before having to change out our 100lb tank. We started turning off the main valve to the oven so it wouldn't burn those 3 pilot lights and started getting 5 weeks before switching tanks. So 20%? In our new off-grid home we didn't want any pilot lights, nor did we want an oven with glow bar ignition which would burn up valuable KWs. We discovered that Whirlpool makes a DSG (Direct spark ignition) model that uses an electronic spark for the oven and the cooktop. No pilot and no glow bar and a pretty stainless appliance that my wife is pleased with.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.
    fowlerrudi wrote: »
    We discovered that Whirlpool makes a DSG (Direct spark ignition) model that uses an electronic spark for the oven and the cooktop. No pilot and no glow bar and a pretty stainless appliance that my wife is pleased with.

    Which model? There are several models... I just looked at one spec sheet for a Whirlpool DSI model and the stove requires a dedicated 15 amp service.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • fowlerrudi
    fowlerrudi Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭✭
    #15
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    Yeah it does require 110 for the spark and clock etc. WFG520S0AS

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Whirlpool-5-0-cu-ft-Gas-Range-with-Self-Cleaning-Oven-in-Stainless-Steel-WFG520S0AS/203572168

    I got it for $599 on a price match with Best Buy at the time. Would have been in December.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.
    fowlerrudi wrote: »
    Yeah it does require 110 for the spark and clock etc. WFG520S0AS

    From the installation manual:
    A 120 volt, 60 Hz., AC only, 15-amp fused, electrical circuit is required. A time-delay fuse or circuit breaker is also recommended. It is recommended that a separate circuit serving only this range be provided.

    From the description, I suspect there's more to it than just a spark and clock. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #17
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    Re: Propane oven with pilot ignition.

    Looking at an appliance parts site... It appears that it does not need any "high current" from the AC mains. Just clock unit plus spark ignitors+gas valve (for oven).

    I am guessing that they say this for retrofits to older homes... Old homes may not have an earth ground wire or a polarized AC plug (Hot+grounded neutral).

    Don't know about this model, but I do have a range with spark ignition that "almost" worked when the hot and neutrals were wired backwards during a remodel (the worker new he needed to check, but did not bother to check when wiring up the range outlet in our 75 year old home). First thing the warranty repair guy did was to check the AC outlet grounding/polarity (very common issue).

    Almost worked being the key... Sometimes it lit, sometimes it would continue to spark when the flame was running... Very flaky/confusing operation.

    Means that for off grid (I am guessing) you should have a TSW (true sine wave) inverter with a ground bonded neutral for proper operation of the spark ignition (those that have automatic spark. Manual spark types--push button/turn knob part way/etc. probably would work on MSW or TSW inverters).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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