Which battery is best for long term?

twolf
twolf Registered Users Posts: 7
I am currently limping along a 24v battery string of Deka Solar batteries which are about 3 years old. There are some weak cells in the three strings I have. really getting tired of running the generator every night for 2-3 hours to make it thru the night ( which it doesn't any longer) even after an excellent day of sunlight.

been exploring the various types of batteries - lead/acid which I have now.
Ni-FE (also known as Edison batteries) - heard some good and some bad things about them.
wondering about AGM, NiCD and other types of batteries.

The strings I have now are three strings of 6v batteries with 1110 AH capacity - when new.

Equipment I have:
Various sizes and brands of panels = 1.8Kw
Outback Flexmax 80 charge controller
Outback Mate
Outback DCmate monitoring
Outback VFX3624 Inverter.

Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    Welcome to the forum

    Since Dekas are actually good batteries and capable of lasting more than 5 years I think it might be a good idea to figure out why the ones you have failed in only 3 before dropping $$$ on new batteries.

    First clue: 1110 Amp hours of battery. Second clue: 80 Amp charge controller. Third clue: 1800 Watts of panel. Fourth clue: panels of various sizes and brands. Fifth clue: three parallel strings.

    So from #1 we see a need for over 100 Amps of charge current. From #2 we see there is no way they are going to get it. From #3 we see the array can only produce about 58 Amps at best (barely 5% charge rate excluding loads). From #4 we can surmise you may not be getting the maximum power potential anyway as panels with various specs will not always work together well. From #5 we see the potential for uneven current sharing between batteries.

    In other words your batteries were killed by chronic deficit charging. Putting in new batteries of any type or brand will just result in the same premature failure.

    Now, what do we do about it?

    Start by re-evaluating your loads. Determine how much power you need to supply daily in AC Watt hours. As it was that battery bank should have been capable of over 6kW hours at 25% DOD. That's quite a bit of power. Do you really need that much?

    Once you've got that portion worked out check and see if there's enough array to recharge the battery capacity. 1800 Watts would be good for 580 Amp hours @ 24 Volts or about 3 kW hours. The array should harvest 5.5 kW hours DC and the over-all system should manage 3.7 kW hours. All that works. If it fits with your power needs then you get a smaller battery bank. If it doesn't you need to increase the array size and possibly the controller capacity as well.

    Speaking of that array, with a full set of specs of all panels and a wiring configuration we can figure out if you're getting maximum potential from it or if there is a conflict between panels that is costing you power.

    Okay?
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    Coot is right on. another thing you can do is check and record the SG on each cell in each string I suggest numbering them in advance) and come back to us so we can suggest what to do in the interim... You probably need to do some EQ charging to try to recover them somewhat. It is a long process but there is a chance you might be successful
    cheers
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    There are other battery options other than lead acid. LiFePO4 is an option that's currently available, although up front cost is higher than lead acid. Also there will be a sodium ion battery available to the consumer later in 2014 from Aquion Energy, although they haven't published specifications of their battery to date. Both options will eliminate the problems of deficit charging, that is a inherent with lead acid, if the system isn't designed properly.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    While the NiFe is an old, mature tech, the 5-7 year change out of the electrolyte looks like it's going to be a major mess.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    northerner wrote: »
    ... from Aquion Energy, ...

    Can we please stick to products that are actually available now? I'm sure Bill Gates and Vinod Khosla appreciate the exposure here.

    Until it is produced on a scale for the masses, it is vaporware, unless one is seeking venture capital funding through the forums. The funny thing is it sure is a small world - who would have thought that battery technology would bring Microsoft and ex Sun Microsystems together. Man, I remember the VMS vs Unix wars just prior, although their ideals were totally opposite each other. I wonder what Dave Cutler and Bill Joy think of the battery? :)

    I respect Dr. Jay Whitacre, and his videos from Carnegie Mellon about Li-based battery tech. (The same place that brought us the mach microkernel), and his further research into Sodium phospate as a replacement for Iron phosphate in the Li battery. However, until it makes it to market, for the common-man, and not just the likes of Siemens, or willing beta-testers, we are just crystal ball gazing.

    One has to wonder if in the end is the sodium-phosphate battery THAT much better than the iron-phosphate, or is it a matter of seeing who has the biggest patent-portfolio warchest? In any case, that kind of discussion does not belong here.

    Maybe I should see if I can get a lead-crystal battery from Axion, and start promoting that in my thread responses.
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    Hi "Twolf", here is a whole bunch of important and educational info on batteries. It can be a real eye opener and you'll quickly see that as usual, Cariboocoot nailed the most likely (almost 100% certain) cause of your unfortunate situation.
    As has so often been said in the past: "Most batteries don't die, they are murdered."
    All the best and good reading: http://www.solarsolutionssa.co.za/?battery-faq,93
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    If you can't get a common lead-acid battery system to work right switching to more complex storage technology isn't going to help.

    This repeated promotion of "in the works" technology to newcomers has to stop, guys. It doesn't help them it just confuses the issue.
  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    This repeated promotion of "in the works" technology to newcomers has to stop, guys. It doesn't help them it just confuses the issue.

    I would want to know myself, if there was a better battery in the works, as I will be replacing my lead acid batteries with something better. So I'm sure there are others out there as well that would be interested in something new and that will be available later this year. Let's face it, the lead acid battery has some serious issues, and a better alternative is in the best interest of everyone. I don't have any affiliation with the company, so have nothing to gain personally. I myself am just looking for a better, longer lasting storage system. I myself am considering a LiFePO4 battery if the price comes down, and issues with battery state regarding a BMS are resolved. But another good alternative will likely be the sodium ion battery, and is not expected to have any issues with battery state of charge, deficit charging, etc...

    I see there have been plenty of other discussions about products about to be available. An example of that is the Whiz Bang jr (battery monitor). There has been plenty of discussion and anticipation of this device, leading up to it's recent availability. Is it prohibited to talk about a product on this site that is not quite available?
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    In the context of discussing products old, new, and future no.

    In the context of trying to provide help for someone who has a problem it just clutters up the thread.

    Comprendo?
  • twolf
    twolf Registered Users Posts: 7
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    I appreciate the heads up for the future types of batteries, but as stated by someone else here, my concern is the here and now.


    This off-grid house is a weekend/retirement house, so the time between posts with info may take a while.

    I know that I have 4 batteries that are marginal at best. I will make them one string and then disconnect them. that will lower my AH to 740 which from what I am reading closer to what the panels will support. After I lean the battery string out, I will turn on the generator and EQ the lower string and see what the effect will be.

    I will also take a specific gravity reading for the cells that are left in operation.

    Thanks in advance for all of the reading material and I am hopefully headed in the right direction now.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    twolf wrote: »
    I appreciate the heads up for the future types of batteries, but as stated by someone else here, my concern is the here and now.


    This off-grid house is a weekend/retirement house, so the time between posts with info may take a while.

    I know that I have 4 batteries that are marginal at best. I will make them one string and then disconnect them. that will lower my AH to 740 which from what I am reading closer to what the panels will support. After I lean the battery string out, I will turn on the generator and EQ the lower string and see what the effect will be.

    I will also take a specific gravity reading for the cells that are left in operation.

    Thanks in advance for all of the reading material and I am hopefully headed in the right direction now.

    Whoa. If you reconfigure all your batteries from one parallel string to all in series the Voltage will go up like crazy.

    Your best bet is to disconnect the three parallel strings and charge one at a time to see if you can get them ramped up to good charge.
  • twolf
    twolf Registered Users Posts: 7
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    Sorry didn't mean to scare anyone. I had 3 strings of 4 batteries each. Now after reconfiguring them, i have 2 strings of 4 batteries each. When i took some voltage readings on the ones i took out, they are reading about 4.23 to 5.01. After the movement around, without the generator or pv panels connected, i am reading a 26.5v, also with no load. I think much better than the 19.2 before the reconfiguring. See how they do and will keep you posted on the progress. And if the back holds out, i will do SP readings on all concerned batteries.
  • BillBlake
    BillBlake Solar Expert Posts: 49
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    mike95490 wrote: »
    While the NiFe is an old, mature tech, the 5-7 year change out of the electrolyte looks like it's going to be a major mess.

    One problem is we really don't have anymore idea than the man in the moon
    how long the electrolyte in your Ni-Fe Cells is going to hold up
    or
    how much percentage of the Ni-Fe Cell Capacity you will lose waiting so long.

    We don't know how contaminated (or not) the electrolyte chemicals (shipped with the batteries)
    from China has been the last few years.

    Never heard of anyone that laid a gram scale on the badboy electrolyte powders
    to check the weight
    against what it weighs as it leaves the Lab - weeks or many months ago when new.
    The Labs DO publish that information.
    The devils.

    Then we do know what terrific Oxygen and Hydrogen Generators the Ni-Fe Cells are along with being
    incredible CO2 Scrubbers as well.

    Ni-Fe Cells could be a Star in an underground human civilization survival movie.

    The greatest survival technology that already was - but got lost to human greed.

    'Diamond' John Mario D'Angelo from Beutilityfree could Direct the movie :-)

    So endless oxygen is bubbling through the (CO2 enriched powders???) or not?

    Then the endless addition of more CO2 every month or so ? or not?

    <snip> EPA.GOV ... Speaks

    Were you surprised to find that the distilled water did not have a neutral pH?

    Pure distilled water would have tested neutral, but pure distilled water is not easily obtained because carbon dioxide in the air around us mixes, or dissolves, in the water, making it somewhat acidic. The pH of distilled water is between 5.6 and 7. To neutralize distilled water, add about 1/8 teaspoon baking soda, or a drop of ammonia, stir well, and check the pH of the water with a pH indicator. If the water is still acidic, repeat the process until pH 7 is reached. If you accidentally add too much baking soda or ammonia, either start over or add a drop or two of vinegar, stir, and recheck the pH.

    http://www.epa.gov/acidrain/education/experiment1.html


    NOT TO FRET !!!

    Once the Ni-Fe batteries bite the dust it's time to cut
    the plates apart so they can be fastened together like the Edison's were.
    How old Bill would Likes it.

    Make up New cases with simple Air Lines and a tube going to the bottom of each cell

    Like the Edison Submarine Batteries did it a Century or so ago.

    Post the Patent that Edison left us on how to Boil the Plates Clean,
    like day new again,
    and den we can discuss the easiest ways to make it happen.

    Just like Zapp Works already did with thousands of Ni-Fe Plates :-)

    Then it's time to:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvIydHPhb98


    BillBlake
  • twolf
    twolf Registered Users Posts: 7
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    BillBlake wrote: »
    One problem is we really don't have anymore idea than the man in the moon
    how long the electrolyte in your Ni-Fe Cells is going to hold up
    or
    how much percentage of the Ni-Fe Cell Capacity you will lose waiting so long.

    We don't know how contaminated (or not) the electrolyte chemicals (shipped with the batteries)
    from China has been the last few years.

    Never heard of anyone that laid a gram scale on the badboy electrolyte powders
    to check the weight
    against what it weighs as it leaves the Lab - weeks or many months ago when new.
    The Labs DO publish that information.
    The devils.

    Then we do know what terrific Oxygen and Hydrogen Generators the Ni-Fe Cells are along with being
    incredible CO2 Scrubbers as well.

    Ni-Fe Cells could be a Star in an underground human civilization survival movie.

    The greatest survival technology that already was - but got lost to human greed.

    'Diamond' John Mario D'Angelo from Beutilityfree could Direct the movie :-)

    So endless oxygen is bubbling through the (CO2 enriched powders???) or not?

    Then the endless addition of more CO2 every month or so ? or not?

    <snip> EPA.GOV ... Speaks

    Were you surprised to find that the distilled water did not have a neutral pH?

    Pure distilled water would have tested neutral, but pure distilled water is not easily obtained because carbon dioxide in the air around us mixes, or dissolves, in the water, making it somewhat acidic. The pH of distilled water is between 5.6 and 7. To neutralize distilled water, add about 1/8 teaspoon baking soda, or a drop of ammonia, stir well, and check the pH of the water with a pH indicator. If the water is still acidic, repeat the process until pH 7 is reached. If you accidentally add too much baking soda or ammonia, either start over or add a drop or two of vinegar, stir, and recheck the pH.

    http://www.epa.gov/acidrain/education/experiment1.html


    NOT TO FRET !!!

    Once the Ni-Fe batteries bite the dust it's time to cut
    the plates apart so they can be fastened together like the Edison's were.
    How old Bill would Likes it.

    Make up New cases with simple Air Lines and a tube going to the bottom of each cell

    Like the Edison Submarine Batteries did it a Century or so ago.

    Post the Patent that Edison left us on how to Boil the Plates Clean,
    like day new again,
    and den we can discuss the easiest ways to make it happen.

    Just like Zapp Works already did with thousands of Ni-Fe Plates :-)

    Then it's time to:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvIydHPhb98


    BillBlake

    I do not have NI-FE batteries. Deka solar are lead-acid.
  • twolf
    twolf Registered Users Posts: 7
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    Sorry for taking so long to reply, but the weather . . . I live in Colorado.

    Ok so back to the continuing saga. Roughly figured out that we use about 3.2 kw of power which is almost every day, takes to an electric Refrigerator and heated waterbed, both of which are being considerably looked at to replace with none electrical units. I have trimmed the batteries down to 2 strings of 4 units each, which has lower the total capacity to 740 AH. On going thru the log in the Charge controller, I have noticed that there are days when I have taken in almost 8kw of solar. I have a solar guy out there, but I don't think he quites understands the sizing of items and how to get out of problems, like I am having. But he did go thru and arrange the panel outputs to maximize the power I could get from the. Whent he weather warms up, I will get up onthe ladder and find out the make and model numbers of the panels. I know there are some 75Ws, couple of 120s, some 200W and couple of 205W's, the smaller ones were at the house when we bought it. I have added the 200 and 205's to the mix. I have noticed that the power fro teh panels is coming in around 62V and the Flexmax 80 is taking it down to the 24 volt ranges.
    I have noticed that the current configuration is not lasting thru the night. I have to run the generator every night we are there for 2-3 hours before we go to bed, so that it makes it thru the night. The refrig and water bed are unplugged at this time and have been for several weeks now.

    So being the novice and really uninformed, but working on learning, what would be the next step?
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    SO what is the SG on those batteries remaining?
  • twolf
    twolf Registered Users Posts: 7
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    Here are the specific gravity of each of the remaining cells. The plus voltage from the panels are connected to one and 5. The negative is connected to 4 and 8.

    1-1. 1.300
    1-2. 1.300
    1-3. 1.125
    2-1. 1.300
    2-2. 1.300
    2-3 1.300
    3-1 1.300
    3-2. 1.100
    3-3. 1.275
    4-1. . 1.300
    4-2. 1.300
    4-3. 1.280
    5-1. 1.300
    5-2. to 6-3. 1.300 each
    7-1 1.280
    7-2. 1.100
    7-3. To 8-3. 1.300 each

    Hope that helps.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    twolf wrote: »
    Here are the specific gravity of each of the remaining cells. The plus voltage from the panels are connected to one and 5. The negative is connected to 4 and 8.

    1-1. 1.300
    1-2. 1.300
    1-3. 1.125
    2-1. 1.300
    2-2. 1.300
    2-3 1.300
    3-1 1.300
    3-2. 1.100
    3-3. 1.275
    4-1. . 1.300
    4-2. 1.300
    4-3. 1.280
    5-1. 1.300
    5-2. to 6-3. 1.300 each
    7-1 1.280
    7-2. 1.100
    7-3. To 8-3. 1.300 each

    Hope that helps.

    I see at least three bad cells in there (in bold) which are crying out for an equalization charge.
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    I see at least three bad cells in there (in bold) which are crying out for an equalization charge.

    I would suggest you put those 3 batteries, plus one of the others together in a 24 volt string and equalize just that string. No sense torturing the other string while you equalize (=overcharge) the weak string.

    Keep a close eye on the temperature while equalizing. Before equalizing, give them an extra long absorb.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • AzSun
    AzSun Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    twolf wrote: »
    I am currently limping along a 24v battery string of Deka Solar batteries which are about 3 years old. There are some weak cells in the three strings I have. really getting tired of running the generator every night for 2-3 hours to make it thru the night ( which it doesn't any longer) even after an excellent day of sunlight.

    been exploring the various types of batteries - lead/acid which I have now.
    Ni-FE (also known as Edison batteries) - heard some good and some bad things about them.
    wondering about AGM, NiCD and other types of batteries.

    The strings I have now are three strings of 6v batteries with 1110 AH capacity - when new.

    Equipment I have:
    Various sizes and brands of panels = 1.8Kw
    Outback Flexmax 80 charge controller
    Outback Mate
    Outback DCmate monitoring
    Outback VFX3624 Inverter.

    I would consider NIFE. I am not sure if the currently available cells are equivalent to the original Edison cell performance or not. I have a set of Edison cells manufactured in 1928 that had an advertised rating of 375 Ah. I have been using them for over 3 years now. Testing shows them to be around 120 AH +. 86 years seems long term to me. I have another set manufactured in 1960 that are at near 100% of new rated capacity. They are inneficient, expensive, require a lot of watering, and a periodical electrolyte change. On the plus side..happily tolerate any abuse that would destroy a lead acid cell.
  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    AzSun wrote: »
    They are inneficient, expensive, require a lot of watering, and a periodical electrolyte change. On the plus side..happily tolerate any abuse that would destroy a lead acid cell.

    Why so expensive?
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    they have a lot of nickle in them, which makes them almost jewelry.
    and I'm NOT looking fwd to the week long project of electrolyte change. (either price of chemicals or labor).
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • AzSun
    AzSun Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    mike95490 wrote: »
    they have a lot of nickle in them, which makes them almost jewelry.
    and I'm NOT looking fwd to the week long project of electrolyte change. (either price of chemicals or labor).

    Mike,

    I am looking to purchase a Morningstar MPPT. What is the range of the custom setpoints for these? I was thinking of bulk charge to 16.5 V and as high as 18.0 followed by an absorb for 1-3 hours. Will this controller do this? I cannot find any published data for this question.

    Thanks
    Tom
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    AzSun wrote: »
    Mike,

    I am looking to purchase a Morningstar MPPT. What is the range of the custom setpoints for these? I was thinking of bulk charge to 16.5 V and as high as 18.0 followed by an absorb for 1-3 hours. Will this controller do this? I cannot find any published data for this question.

    Thanks
    Tom

    What I know.

    My tristar MPPT60 can be remotely programed to those values. (with the MSview software)(I'm using a NiFe bank)
    the MPPT 40 is the same thing, just lower power, and should be OK
    My small sunsaver MPPT can talk via MSview , but I've never tried to change it's setpoints.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • AzSun
    AzSun Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    mike95490 wrote: »
    What I know.

    My tristar MPPT60 can be remotely programed to those values. (with the MSview software)(I'm using a NiFe bank)
    the MPPT 40 is the same thing, just lower power, and should be OK
    My small sunsaver MPPT can talk via MSview , but I've never tried to change it's setpoints.



    Thanks for the info Mike. I forgot to mention I would be charging NIFE also but an Edison bank.
  • BillBlake
    BillBlake Solar Expert Posts: 49
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?
    mike95490 wrote: »
    they have a lot of nickle in them, which makes them almost jewelry.
    and I'm NOT looking fwd to the week long project of electrolyte change. (either price of chemicals or labor).

    One fellow froze a lot of the distilled water to speed the Ni-Fe Electrolyte brewing process up some.

    The buckets of KOH may be worth the premium over the bags of KOH.

    That stuff must be similar to the old quicklime.
    The Lithium Hydroxide must be even worse.
    A buddy of mine used quicklime for sucking up CO2 from his apple storage many years ago.
    He weighed a few bags from each pallet he bought to make sure the stuff was fresh.

    Same as you can weigh a few CC of your KOH and LiOH before using it to see what
    they want to lay on you.

    98 to 99% pure LiOH is what you want.

    The battery grade LiOH is junk.

    <snip>

    LIME.ORG

    Chemical Uses of Lime

    Lime is a basic industrial chemical that is used as a component in many other chemical processes.

    'Fruit and Vegetables'

    <snip> carbon dioxide penetrates easily through the multi-wall paper bags into the lime.

    http://www.lime.org/uses_of_lime/other_uses/industrial-chem_uses.asp


    Those 50 pound bags of Potassium Hydroxide can gain a good amount of pounds of CO2
    which turns into (One Type of) Carbonates in the Nickel Iron Battery Electrolyte
    when
    married to the endless supply of oxygen from your Hydrogen / Oxygen Generators.
    (Your Nickel Iron Batteries.)

    Breaking down the endless supply of distilled water with even more CO2 (in it as well)
    is the oxygen source.

    Just one of Many dangers to contaminate that sweet electrolyte.

    Why wait until there is endless flushing needed?
    By then the capacity has dropped significantly INSIDE the plates.

    As you can tell by reading the New Changhong Batteries Manual
    they mention enough problems to look for NOW that JUST a KOH carbonates test
    means so little NOW that I wouldn't worry about it any longer.

    It's like greasing a truck.
    Anytime is a good time to change that electrolyte within reason.
    Old Bill figured every 2-3 years was good Long before
    'Changhong and The Electric Indian'
    fessed up fairly recently.
    The devils :-)

    Bill Blake
  • twolf
    twolf Registered Users Posts: 7
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    moved #7 into the spot of number 2 and left 4 right where it is.
    Disconnected the four 'good' batteries and there were only 4 - 6V batteries left in the string.
    Did a 3 hour ABSORB to the batteries and then hit them with a one hour Equalize @30V, but the Amps never got much higher than 18A.

    Did a SG reading at the end of the equalize and here is the results

    1-1. 1.300
    1-2. 1.300
    1-3. 1.100
    7-1 1.280
    7-2. 1.300
    7-3. 1.300
    3-1. 1.300
    3-2. 1.100
    3-3. 1.275
    4-1. 1.300
    4-2. 1.300
    4-3. 1.300

    So maybe #7 is in better shape, but #1 and #3 are still limping along.
  • wild01
    wild01 Solar Expert Posts: 100 ✭✭✭
    Re: Which battery is best for long term?

    Saw you are in Colorado. IF! these are forklift style batteries IBS in Denver may be able to rebuild them for you, they can remove the bad cells and replace them with good cells, I would recommend using the good cells on the batteries that you have pulled from the system this will keep all cells the same age which is a good thing and also reduce your total amp hours available which will help with your chronic undercharging. you should equalize at least once every 3 months from now on. 1 hour is not enough, 18 amps is not enough. plan on running your generator all night on eq days!

    IBS also pays pretty good to recycle old batteries, so in the end you may break even on the service!