Gas Fridge

basewindow
basewindow Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
I have just purchased a small gas fridge 60ltr. It says not to use indoors. I assume due to CO issues.

As my cabin/shack is 6x9 meters and pretty much open plan apart from 2.5x3m bathroom/toilet, how much of an issue is this really?

It has a few draughts and the door gets opened every now and again, so I guess it would be an issue only over night?

Cheers,

Cam.
Off Grid shack - Victoria Australia. 480W array, 500Ah AGM at 12V. 30A PWM Manison CC. Trimetric 2030. 300W Pure Sine Inverter. 120lt Dometic Gas Fridge. Composting Toilet. 5000lt water tank with 12v 35psi pump. Bosch Hydropower 16 for nice hot water. 4kw Fuji Micro Generator (dead after 7 years) 5kva Subaru Generator.

Comments

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    that's interesting as i've never heard of a refrig saying not for use indoors. maybe it was a mistake for you to buy this?
  • basewindow
    basewindow Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    Just to clarify it is a 3-way unit, but runs best on gas. It's basically the same a as a caravan fridge, with a pilot light that heats ammonia etc. I guess the warning is more for use in unventilated tents or vans but I was just wondering if anyone had any experiance with them for cabin use and if anyone has CO issues with the units they have.

    If I decide to use it or a larger one on a permanent basis I will vent it to the outside.
    Off Grid shack - Victoria Australia. 480W array, 500Ah AGM at 12V. 30A PWM Manison CC. Trimetric 2030. 300W Pure Sine Inverter. 120lt Dometic Gas Fridge. Composting Toilet. 5000lt water tank with 12v 35psi pump. Bosch Hydropower 16 for nice hot water. 4kw Fuji Micro Generator (dead after 7 years) 5kva Subaru Generator.
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge
    basewindow wrote: »
    Just to clarify it is a 3-way unit, but runs best on gas. It's basically the same a as a caravan fridge, with a pilot light that heats ammonia etc. I guess the warning is more for use in unventilated tents or vans but I was just wondering if anyone had any experiance with them for cabin use and if anyone has CO issues with the units they have.

    The caravan fridges that I have seen are vented... they are inserted into a cutout in the kitchen wall (or cabinet) and there is a flange that seals the unit to the front (inside) of the kitchen wall or cabinet. The exhaust is released on the outside of the living space. The exhaust would probably not be a problem in a larger cabin. If you're worried about CO, buy a CO detector.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    My cousin has a gas fridge, an older one, apparently meant to be used inside. The first night the family stayed at their camp with the fridge operating, they all woke up with severe headaches, and a couple of them vomiting. It was a VERY close call. Since then the fridge has been moved to it's own room, the door to that room is kept closed, the exhaust stack on the fridge now goes into a pipe that vents through the roof and a window in that room is kept open when the fridge is operating. Works well except when windy, and sometimes a downdraft will blow out the flame / pilot light in the fridge. They consider they had a very close call.
    Years ago before fridges were designed to be vented outside, there were many deaths in the Northern Ontario (Canada) forests when after a long winter, folks would go to their camps, light the propane fridge, and once they went to bed, they'd never wake up again. Investigations revealed that over the Winter, mice had built nests in the air inlet to the flame, or in the exhaust duct, partially blocking the airflow, resulting in improper combustion. Regular gas / propane stoves burn their flame in open air, so normally complete combustion is the norm. Not so with fridges, the flame is enclosed within a tube, and any improper airflow can result in CO production.
    If your fridge isn't designed to be vented outside - - - use inside at your own risk. If it's at all possible to run it outside, perhaps on a deck, or in a vented outbuilding, that would be the way to go.
    Many / most gas fridges now made for in home use, have CO detectors that shut off the fuel supply at the first sign of CO.
  • Volvo Farmer
    Volvo Farmer Solar Expert Posts: 209 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    A battery powered CO alarm would be cheap insurance should you decide to use it indoors. We have a Danby and when it is operating properly, it is fine indoors. However the burner got some dust/lint in it once and it set off the detector. I had an existing vent for a water heater in the same room, so I used some 3" flexible aluminum vent and ran it from the top of the burner tube to a "t" in the vent pipe.
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    It's really not that hard to box in around them on a outside wall and put a vent at the bottom and top. They will pull air in for combustion and venting out the top. All the RV supply places have vent kits for them.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    It is pretty simple. First, as suggested, get a good CO detctor. Then instll proper venting. Every LP fridge I have worked on, and that is hundreds, have an exhaust at the top of the boiler. You can simply fashion a pipe to fit loosely over the exhaust (as a draft hood) and route it outside. Then, cut a hole, through the wall with a hole saw of ~11/2" and fill it with a pop in metal or plastic vent. This allows combustion air. Additionally, for a absorption fridge to work well, you need a natural draft over the evaporator coils at the top the of th fridge. By providing an opening in the wall low for incoming cool air and either living the fridge open to the room to vent the coil sets up a natural convection which makes the fridge work. You can augment tht with a tsat controlled fan other coils, and or, a wall vent up high to vent the heat outside in warmer climates.

    Fire up the fridge with the new vent flue pipe, and make sure that it draws properly in all conditions. In some cases wind can cause problems with the flame, then requiring a wind baffle. Now with a CO detector you have a safe installation. I like to use a peice of tin on the wall behind the boiler as added insurance, though it is not really needed. Also, as you pass the flue through the wall structure you need to protect the wall from excess heat, even though it is not very hot. Simple stainless or aluminum flex pipe works quite well. I have even used ABS pipe, but depending on the fridge, it can be too hot for ABS.

    Tony
  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    I would think another unlikely but possible problem with out proper venting is if there were an ammonia leak. I would not want to be in a closed room with that possibility. Why not just build a box around it vented through the wall for outside combustion air and exhaust gases much like they do in an RV.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Gas Fridge

    In the end--CO poisoning is an odorless/clear gas that that tends to put you to sleep. And CO detectors need to be replaced every ~5-10 years (the detector is really a chemical battery, with the CO providing one of the reactants--So, the detectors do eventually fail).

    Short answer--It is not worth the risk to your life. Install outside or vent well.

    =Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    Cooling unit ammonia leaks are really not much of an issue UNLESS you have a fairly large cooling unit in a very enclosed space. The reality is the volume of ammonia in the coolant solution is quite small, and leak typically happen through a pin hole in the cooling unit (most often due to rust where the coolant tubes pass through the case, mixing cold and hot causing condensation, and ergo rust, more often in fridges that re used off and on, pretty rare with fridges that are used year round), the pin hole leak releases ammonia slowly enough that often times you never even notice it, until the fridge won't get cold.

    Bottom line I worry more about Co than ammonia leaks, but with proper venting it shouldn't be an issue.

    Tony
  • basewindow
    basewindow Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    Thanks for all the replies. It's just a short term solution. I will run it on gas during the day near the door and either turn it off before I go to bed or put it on 12v. If I decide propane is the way to go insead of a compressor fridge I'll do as you all suggest and vent it and invest in a CO detector.
    Off Grid shack - Victoria Australia. 480W array, 500Ah AGM at 12V. 30A PWM Manison CC. Trimetric 2030. 300W Pure Sine Inverter. 120lt Dometic Gas Fridge. Composting Toilet. 5000lt water tank with 12v 35psi pump. Bosch Hydropower 16 for nice hot water. 4kw Fuji Micro Generator (dead after 7 years) 5kva Subaru Generator.
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge
    basewindow wrote: »
    I will run it on gas during the day near the door and either turn it off before I go to bed or put it on 12v.

    Bad idea. These fridges are horribly inefficient when run on 12 volts. You will ruin your batteries.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge
    vtmaps wrote: »
    These fridges are horribly inefficient when run on 12 volts. --vtMaps

    True. They actually run on electric heat, which is a quick battery drainer :(
  • basewindow
    basewindow Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
    Re: Gas Fridge

    Just checked. 6.5A at 12v, not the best. Thanks all, I will work something out!
    Off Grid shack - Victoria Australia. 480W array, 500Ah AGM at 12V. 30A PWM Manison CC. Trimetric 2030. 300W Pure Sine Inverter. 120lt Dometic Gas Fridge. Composting Toilet. 5000lt water tank with 12v 35psi pump. Bosch Hydropower 16 for nice hot water. 4kw Fuji Micro Generator (dead after 7 years) 5kva Subaru Generator.