Build Small Generator

jayjay
jayjay Registered Users Posts: 9
Since it's going to be way too expensive to entirely solar power my home, I would like to build a small generator that can do at the very least, 2 things:

(1) run my refrigerator and freezer
(2) run my well to get water into my home

I would also like to ensure I have enough storage capacity for at least 5 days without sun.

I know the basics of what I need, but am unsure as to the specifics. I can get the wattage rating of my Fridge and Freezer to see what I need in capacity, but not sure how to do this on my well pump (it's 220VAC to boot so I suspect I need some sort of up-converter). I realize it will take a 'whollop' to get going, but if I can get by running it only 4 or 5 times a day on the average it'll be as little as possible.

Any suggestions on where to begin on understanding what I need in terms of energy for my well pump?

Thank you.

Comments

  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Build Small Generator

    You've listed some of the biggest energy users in a home, so you'll need a decently sized genset. You will also do better buying a commercial genset - either because you can buy a loud one far cheaper, or buy a quiet (but expensive) one that you know will be reliable.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • The Only Sarge
    The Only Sarge Solar Expert Posts: 164 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Build Small Generator

    I have buyers remorse on many things....but one I do not is my propane generator for my well.
  • jayjay
    jayjay Registered Users Posts: 9
    Re: Build Small Generator

    The reason I am trying to do this with solar is I worry about the unavailability of gasoline/propane/fuel in the not-too-distant future. I agree ... I can buy a propane generator to do everything in my home reasonably, but if you can't get fuel ... it'll then be sun and wind and human power.

    ... and I love non-spoiled food, indoor flush toilets, and showers.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Build Small Generator

    All power comes with a price.
    Unfortunately you want some pretty big power, and that comes with a pretty big price.
    You can spend $30 on a Kill-A-Watt and get some real world numbers on the refrigerator and freezer.
    You can buy an AC clamp-on meter and watch the draw on your well pump when it's running.
    Neither will capture those elusive start-up surge spikes, though.

    Then you will get tons of helpful advice here about finding more efficiency refrigerator, freezer, and well pump. That ought to be a few thousand dollars right there. :roll:

    Finally you will have a set of numbers: 'X' Watts peak including surges, and 'Y' Watt hours daily.
    So you'll say: "I need an inverter that can deliver 'X' Watts" and you'll find out there's a couple more thousand dollars gone. Then you look at that 'Y' Watt hours figure and come up with an acceptable battery bank which will no doubt eat up another thousand or more. Finally you can calculate the size of solar array needed to recharge said batteries and what charge controller to connect them through. You guessed it; more thousands disappear out of your bank account. Toss in the miscellaneous hardware, wire, fuses, et cetera ...

    That's why you have to consider carefully this prospect of running out of fuel for a really inexpensive gen set that can supply those needs vs. the many thousands of dollars needed to supply the same amount of power via solar panels. And batteries don't last forever either.

    It's your money; it's your choice.
    We'll help you size the system but the decision (and responsibility) on the expense is yours alone.
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Build Small Generator

    I'm confused, jayjay. Your first post says you can't install enough solar and want to build a generator. Your second post says you don't want a genset. ???
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Build Small Generator
    techntrek wrote: »
    I'm confused, jayjay. Your first post says you can't install enough solar and want to build a generator. Your second post says you don't want a genset. ???

    Agree. The second post indicates there may be times when fuel to run a commercial generator is not available - - which leads me to wonder what the home built generator spoken of in the first post, would run on.
    Would the poster possible be speaking of a wind driven generator?
  • Urbandialect
    Urbandialect Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Build Small Generator

    Jay Jay, the people on this site are going to tell you how to do it the "right way" . Cariboocoot is right about figure out how much draw your pulling from the frig and pump. what ever the rating is on it is probably a lie. Lets say your frig pulls 13 amps and the pump pulling 17 amps--- that's 30 amps - How long do you want to be able to go over caste for without any sun light to beable to charge your batteries? Lets go with 3 days of Darkness :wink:wink: 72 hours X 32amps = 2304 amp hour battery bank, that's assuming that the pump and frig will be running 24/7 which they won't.. That's why Cariboocot is telling you to find out your daily wattage usage so u can caculate correctly without wasting money.
    You can save energy by putting the refrigertor on a timer, 2 hours on 1 hour off, or vice versa.
    I don't know much about the water pumps, but i'm sure that doesn't run 24/7 either, so calculate what your using daily and what you want to run... the nconfigure your battery bank for 3 days over caste, then figure what kind of solar array will need to charge it back up in a day or 2.

    I don't know much about this solar stuff either, but i'm trying to do the same thing as you.. providing power to my home when resources such as propane and gas are limited.

    Which I'm giving myself till Sept to get it done and set up. So far i got a 1200 amp hour battery bank split in half, 600 of AGMs and 660 of Lead acids T105.. spent $385 for all my batteries.

    And right now i'm building my own solar panels. They advise against on this site because soon as they finish building theirs, they run out side and mount them and they die slowly on them.. I don't mount mine nor leave them outside in bad weather, they're doing just fine. ( note: I do plan on buying professional built solar panels)


    I bought a 1500 MSW inverter the VOX off Craigslist for $30. being running my computer, monitor, stero, tools and stuff of that.
  • jayjay
    jayjay Registered Users Posts: 9
    Re: Build Small Generator

    Sorry for the confusion ... my first post I meant I don't want to entire solarize my home ... the cost would be very high. What I am looking to do is just install enough solar so I can run the 3 items (Fridge, Freezer and Well). Even if I could just run my 220VAC well from solar that would be beneficial to me. My fear in installing a generator (propane in my case) would be that propane could become impossible to acquire. Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I see the future of electricity and energy in this country not being great.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Build Small Generator
    jayjay wrote: »
    Sorry for the confusion ... my first post I meant I don't want to entire solarize my home ... the cost would be very high. What I am looking to do is just install enough solar so I can run the 3 items (Fridge, Freezer and Well). Even if I could just run my 220VAC well from solar that would be beneficial to me. My fear in installing a generator (propane in my case) would be that propane could become impossible to acquire. Perhaps I'm paranoid, but I see the future of electricity and energy in this country not being great.

    Ironically, the three items you wish to keep running are some of the biggest power users you've got. Once you have enough solar to power them the rest of the house would probably run off the excess.

    I wouldn't be too worried about the future of electricity and energy; it may become more expensive but it's not likely to disappear. In my lifetime I've already heard that rant: supposedly we have run out of oil at least twice already. Hasn't happened. If you want to do yourself a real favour, start by learning how you can live while using less energy. If everyone would do that there'd be no energy crisis and "they" wouldn't be able to hoodwink us into paying higher prices every time "they" get the urge for a vacation in Bermuda or a new Rolls-Royce. :roll:

    My advice: get the Kill-A-Watt, measure everything, see what you can shut off/do without or change to a more efficient model. Off-grid solar is about 10 times the price of utility power; if you can afford that you can afford your electric bill for a long time to come.
  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Build Small Generator

    Cariboocoot, once again you've hit the nail squarely on the head! I could not have said it any better. If a solar system can run those major users listed, then except for pure waste (or AC it it's REALLY needed), there is little else to use electricity. Like has been said over and over and over in this form, by many people, Conserve, Conserve, Conserve! Just this morning I visited a friend, new to solar and having 45 watts of old used panels that still work, except the output is now closer to 15 watts) and there they were, installing 40 and 60 watt regular light bulbs, while saving their 9 watt CFL's for something more important, whatever that might be. Sometimes I really have to wonder - - - - - - -
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Build Small Generator
    My advice: get the Kill-A-Watt, measure everything, see what you can shut off/do without or change to a more efficient model. Off-grid solar is about 10 times the price of utility power; if you can afford that you can afford your electric bill for a long time to come.

    And yes, this is a solar forum. :roll:

    Most of us here just happen to be practical and cheap, really cheap... So when you see us say conserve, conserve, conserve--read "cheap", "cheap", "cheap".

    -Bill "Cheap" B. ;):D
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Build Small Generator

    Well pump of about 5/8 HP requires a minimum of 4 kW sinewave inverter to achieve starting current surge. Its actual kWH of consumption depends on water consumption but in the ball park of 2 kWH's per day.

    Refrig 16 cu ft., relatively new, within last 5 years, will draw about 1.1 kWH per day and requires a minimum inverter of 1.5 to 2 kW to start compressor.

    Freezer about 0.8 kWH's per day.

    Total for thoses three items is about 4 kWH's per day.

    For solar, that would require a minimum of about 2 kW's of panels.

    A 4kW sinewave inverter should run on 48 vdc. Battery capacity for five days reserve would be about 6 kWH's per day on 50% depth of discharge or 60 kWH's @ 100% rated battery capacity.

    That is about 1,250 Amp-Hours, 48 volt battery array.

    About 3500 lbs. of deep cycle lead-acid batteries, ten 200 watt PV panels, and a 4 kW sinewave inverter.

    Roughly,
    $12,000 for batteries
    $2800 for inverter
    $6500 for PV panels.
    $3000 for misc. hardware (breakers, boxes, connectors, mounts, and wiring)

    Round to $24,500.