Using a Prius as a generator

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Comments

  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    inetdog wrote: »
    Great cartoon strip of one kid telling another that if he were designing a house he would add an indoor parking place as part of the package. Other kid says "You mean like a garage?"
    "Yeah, only for cars."
    Chevrolet, I believe, offered a contractor's special pickup which was a hybrid with an inverter run from the traction battery. That made some sense, but I do not think it caught on.
    You can also get a riding mower/lawn tractor which is a battery/gas hybrid and has a built-in inverter output.


    Actually the Via motors truck is alive and well and getting closer to mass market. They are delivering fleet vehicles now. http://www.viamotors.com/
    Exportable power
    Power where you need it—at home or the workplace. 120 and 240 volt outlets right on the back of the truck provide easy access for work or emergency. Now you can plug your house into your truck in an emergency! The VTRUX power export module option provides 15 kW at 30 amps of onboard mobile power. A utility grade output module, now in development, is designed to provide 50 kW of mobile emergency power to keep critical facilities online.
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    120 and 240 volt outlets right on the back of the truck provide easy access for work or emergency. Now you can plug your house into your truck in an emergency! The VTRUX power export module option provides 15 kW at 30 amps

    I wonder how they do their math, 30 amps @ 240 volts = 7200 watts.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    inetdog wrote: »
    I suspect that part of the problem may be that the headlights are powered from the auxiliary 12V battery while the AC is run from the traction battery.
    Cycling to keep the aux battery charged would change the timing from what it would be just to keep the traction battery up. And the startup current surge of the AC compressor (even with an inverter/VFD in between) may be causing some problems too.
    Normally a dip in the traction battery voltage does not cause any problems since the drive components will just feed more power to the motor instead or just not deliver any greater acceleration.

    The headlights shouldn't be an issue, the 12 volt system is supplied continuously via a DC-DC converter. The computers, screen, etc use about 200 watts on the 12 volt side all the time.

    I've always thought it is spurious readings due to the AC compressor and inverter (it has its own, fed from the traction battery).
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    techntrek wrote: »
    I wonder how they do their math, 30 amps @ 240 volts = 7200 watts.
    Think about 208/120 three phase perhaps?

    With 30A on each of the three phase wires that would be 90 x 120 for 10800.
    Or 240 delta for 12,240. Getting closer....
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    Maybe with their commercial package that was mentioned earlier. But for construction site and home backup they would have to supply 120/240 split phase.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    I tried this over the weekend. I have a 2006 Prius that's getting up there in mileage (140,000.) I got a 2kW AIMS inverter from Ebay:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/AIMS-Prius-2kW-Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter-for-Backup-Power-Generator-/200841111789

    Went pretty smoothly overall with the exception of that damn orange safety plug. It is a bear to get back in right, and it took me 2 hours of fussing, poking and prodding to get it back in correctly, wondering all the time if I'd have to get a tow truck to tow the thing to the dealer if I couldn't get it back in. You actually have to reach into the battery and get your finger on the other side of the signal connector as you are seating it, which to me sorta misses the point of a safety plug.

    The inverter came with a simple wiring harness. I used a 12 gauge extension cord with a straight blade 240V 20A connector on the end. That's unusual enough that the odds of someone seeing it and thinking "you know I can just plug my X in there!" is pretty low. I added a 30 amp fuse just in case in the cable to the inverter.

    Finally I got it all connected (and got the safety plug back in) turned on the car and turned on the inverter. It ran a 1500 watt heat gun with no problem. On a scope the waveform looks very clean, although it does something odd on startup - ramps smoothly from 0 volts to 120 volts over the course of about five seconds. I've never seen an inverter do that before, and I'm not sure what it would do to your average appliance.

    So I am now better prepared for a longish blackout. (Of course, in San Diego these almost never happen.) I am also prepared to power entire tent cities at homebrewing campouts, tailgate parties and Burning Man.

    Some pictures below:

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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    ...
    Went pretty smoothly overall with the exception of that damn orange safety plug. It is a bear to get back in right, and it took me 2 hours of fussing, poking and prodding to get it back in correctly, wondering all the time if I'd have to get a tow truck to tow the thing to the dealer if I couldn't get it back in. You actually have to reach into the battery and get your finger on the other side of the signal connector as you are seating it, which to me sorta misses the point of a safety plug.

    Congrats! Its great having so much power available while it only uses as much gas as a 2 kw Honda inverter-genset.

    Sorry to hear you had so much trouble with the orange plug. I mentioned the solution - what you did - in post #12 on this thread. No worries about putting your finger back there, the high voltage connection is completely encased.

    I just looked at your pics and it looks like you tapped into the BATTERY side of the relay contacts. I highly recommend you change to the other side. How you are wired now your tap is always live, whether the car is on or not. You can't disconnect it in an emergency. If you go with the switched side of the relays when you turn the car off, the tap is off. If the car throws a fault code which would disconnect the battery, it will also disconnect your tap. Lots of reasons to make the switch.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    Sounds like moving the power tap is highly recommended... (just to make the above post is seen and understood).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    techntrek wrote: »
    I just looked at your pics and it looks like you tapped into the BATTERY side of the relay contacts. I highly recommend you change to the other side. How you are wired now your tap is always live, whether the car is on or not. You can't disconnect it in an emergency. If you go with the switched side of the relays when you turn the car off, the tap is off. If the car throws a fault code which would disconnect the battery, it will also disconnect your tap. Lots of reasons to make the switch.

    It is indeed on the switched side of the contacts (no power when the car is off.) The photos were taken from opposite angles; that may make it look like the wires were on the hot terminals.
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    Ah, ok, now I see the orange battery cables to the left of that picture (second pic) and that it is an opposite view of the wide shot (first pic). Sorry for the mix-up.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    Another successful round of power from our Prius. We had a big ice storm 2 days ago that took down many trees and branches, we were without power for 40 hours, and I ran the Prius for about 35 of that. It used 0.14 gallons/hour this time. That included running my electric chainsaw for 5 hours to clear a big Walnut tree that came down over the driveway, plus the usual loads. For comparison my Yamaha inverter-genset uses 0.2 gallons/hour running my camper - A/C, lights, computers and cell phones charging.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • mtl4
    mtl4 Registered Users Posts: 1
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    techntrek wrote: »
    Forum member semipro contacted me about a month and a half ago to let me know about another UPS line which appears to be compatible with the Prius, and with other hybrids with higher DC voltages like the Highlander or Volt. I didn’t want this info to fall through the cracks so I'm posting it here. Unlike the APCs I've mentioned earlier in this thread I haven’t purchased/tested any of these, I’m just passing along the manufacturer info.

    The one he told me about is the Toshiba 1600EP, which after some searching I’ve also found under the Alpha brand name and at least one other, but most hits are on the Toshiba name so they are likely the original manufacturer. The more modern replacement of that line with the same specs is the 1600XP. Toshiba groups models with varying specs under the one model number so you must be careful to look at the kVA capacity to get the right ones. The 3.6 and 6 kVA versions have a nominal DC voltage of 216 volts, with an alarm at 192 and shutdown at 170. I estimate an upper voltage of at least 270, so they would be perfect for some of the Prii. The 8 kVA and above are spec’ed at 288 nominal, 246 alarm, 227 shutdown, with an estimated upper limit of at least 360, so these should work with the Highlander, possibly the Volt, and possibly some of the other Prii. Unfortunately as well-suited as these are there are two downsides. From everything I’ve read they can’t be cold/black started from the DC input, so without a temporary AC “jump start” they would be useless (the APCs can do a cold/black start). And while they can natively output 120/208/240, that is because they have a transformer built-in which makes them very heavy even without batteries, like the old Liebert Smart-UPS line. With batteries they are around 475 pounds. They would be fine permanently installed in a garage, just don’t plan on taking one on the road for portable power.

    I also found one version of their model 1000 line that might work with the Prius, the 6 kVA version, with a 240 nominal DC voltage. AC output is 208/240 with a weight of around 150 pounds with batteries – no transformer or 120 volt output (same as the APCs). So an external transformer will be necessary for portable power or sub-panel connection. I do not know if this can be cold/black started or any other specs.


    Some really great info in here for sure. I've got a Highlander Hybrid I finished rebuilding the battery pack on recently and I'm looking to use it as a backup generator (looked at low speed diesel gensets and was quite stunned). We also get occasional power spikes/drops throughout the year (must be on a weak part of the grid) so having a buffer on the more sensitive electronics would be very helpful too. I do have a 50A generator transfer switch installed so my critical circuits are already isolated at this point but I was a bit worried about both fuel consumption (need to conserve during SHTF events) and power quality (damage to electronic items).

    Getting back to the Highlander generator setup, I know the nominal voltage is around (9.6v x 30 = 288v) but in use on the road with mini VCI (Techstream) I saw voltages quite a bit higher (maybe maxing out around 350v) so I wanted to make sure any UPS or inverter system I was using could accomodate the higher voltages of the Highlander and not do any damage to the system (ie everything works happily within the normal range of the hybrid pack). I even thought about setting up a way to maintain a separate Highlander battery pack / inverter setup (essentially a home made UPS) then connecting the Highlander once the power goes out. Any comments or help on options for setting up a reasonably priced system would be great.

    Alternatively the AIMS Prius inverter looks great and would also be a good option but I'd like to be more in the 4-5 kW range and I'm not sure on the input requirements on this setup either. I assume these inverters can't be daisy chained for AC output and being able to just develop a cord that plugs right into my transfer panel from a single inverter would be alot easier than branching off more circuits in the electrical panel. Again any help on options would be fantastic.

    Thanks in advance!
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    Hope to hear if you get a system working, I haven't talked with someone that got a Highlander UPS working (usually just Prii).

    Don't worry about the pack voltage while on the road, from what I've read the regen braking can spike the voltage. Since the UPS won't be hooked up while you are on the road you can ignore that. Intead, look at the voltage during a normal low-high-low cycle while parked. However, you may find it shows a higher voltage unloaded than you'll get with a load. You may want to connect something, maybe 3 incandescent lights wired in series, before monitoring the voltage.

    I've discussed the downsides of trying to get a system working outside of a working vehicle. Thrown error codes would be very easy with even a simple thing out of place. The advantage of using a Prius or Highlander is the lack of maintenance or additional cost - it is being driven and maintained already so no appreciable additional expense would be needed other than the UPS.

    No, you can't stack any of the UPSs or inverters like the AIMS. However, as I detailed earlier in the thread, if you get a UPS or inverter that only outputs 240 or 208, the APC SURT003 transformer will convert it to 120/240 split phase, fairly cheap if you keep your eyes open. If you start with 120 volts, you can get a transformer to go the other direction, again providing 120/240. Then use that to feed any subpanel.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • MarkC
    MarkC Solar Expert Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    There is an older Prius in our family (Son-in-law). I've got his interest in potentially integrating it into my solar system that is installed in a remote location. My electric co-op gave me a really sweet deal on an on-grid installation, and I currently have 14 SolarWorld 280 monos feeding a SMA Sunny Boy 4000 TL-US. Currently I am installing some "hybrid" equipment to keep my golf cart batteries (and spare set) charged for use during a long outage. I also have a gas-guzzling, extremely loud, but powerful electric start, split phase, 6500 watt generator to run my well pump so that we will always have water (and maybe some selective air conditioning use). This will take some real rationing of gasoline, but I'm prepared to do that.

    Down South here in Texas Gulf Coast, we can have rather long power outages due to hurricanes of up to several weeks - in my case it could be months at the end of the transmission system deep in the country. So to use the Prius (just drive it up to my Solar System and hook it up! - it is located in an adjacent storage shed), I'd need to get around 4000 watts of 240 volt split phase electricity on demand - that would just be phenomenal. It would be great to integrate the 8 - 155 AH golf cart batteries (2-48 volt strings) also as they can consistently be charged by the existing solar system - and keep the gasoline usage to absolute minimum. What would be ideal is a highly flexible inverter that could take the traction battery output (sort of like it was from the traditional PV panels) on demand, and use the recharged 48 volt Cart system batteries for the majority of power supply. I'd think that this type of inverter could also recharge the 48 V batteries (from the Prius) if needed during extended cloudy weather -just to keep them in good condition.

    Bottom line is the ability to produce the 240 volt split phase for short periods of time - almost indefinitely, which seems possible IF both the Prius (rationed gas) the 48 volt battery system (solar) can both feed a 240 V split phase inverter. Of course, the constraint on my grid-tied inverter is that it will not make split phase power unless it is on the grid. This SMA inverter does make 120 v AC - up to 1500 watts off-grid however which will be used to charge the 48 v battery bank during sunny times.

    I have recently joined the post and a newbie to renewable power, and realize this might be totally impractical, but whats the fun in being practical!

    Mark
    3850 watts - 14 - 275SW SolarWorld Panels, 4000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy Grid tied inverter.  2760 Watts - 8 - 345XL Solar World Panels, 3000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy GT inverter.   3000 watts SMA/SPS power.  PV "switchable" to MidNite Classic 250ks based charging of Golf cart + spare battery array of 8 - 155 AH 12V Trojans with an  APC SMT3000 - 48 volt DC=>120 Volt AC inverter for emergency off-grid.   Also, "PriUPS" backup generator with APC SURT6000/SURT003  => 192 volt DC/240 volt split phase AC inverter.  
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    Welcome. Unfortunately you won't find an inverter and/or charger that will accept 48 and 192 volts DC. Your best bet will be to get one of the UPSs I mentioned earlier (and transformer to get the 120/240 split phase) and use that to power your well pump, and a 120 or 240 volt charger for your batteries, also driven by the UPS/transformer.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • MarkC
    MarkC Solar Expert Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    techntrek wrote: »
    Welcome. Unfortunately you won't find an inverter and/or charger that will accept 48 and 192 volts DC. Your best bet will be to get one of the UPSs I mentioned earlier (and transformer to get the 120/240 split phase) and use that to power your well pump, and a 120 or 240 volt charger for your batteries, also driven by the UPS/transformer.

    That certainly seems to be the case. Is there a specific APC model number for this split phase transformer? It seems these UPS prices are all over the map on ebay now!

    Out of curiosity, how do the APC UPS get the back up batteries to a high enough voltage to drive its inverter? Has anyone added "battery backup" of a substantial amount directly to the UPS - and basically rid the system of a second battery backup (e.g. 12,36,48 volt traditional lead/acid)? To make this functional it seems one would need to find a (PV) charge controller that could charge this (powerful) UPS battery system directly?

    Not being an electrical engineer/designer, probably missing some functionality here, but it sure seems you are on the right track for Prius owners that are seriously interested in substantial emergency power. If our family all showed up at our remote home during a hurricane (which did happen during Ike), with full tanks for gas in every car, plus my planned storage, we could go for months with the Prius concept and be fairly comfortable.
    3850 watts - 14 - 275SW SolarWorld Panels, 4000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy Grid tied inverter.  2760 Watts - 8 - 345XL Solar World Panels, 3000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy GT inverter.   3000 watts SMA/SPS power.  PV "switchable" to MidNite Classic 250ks based charging of Golf cart + spare battery array of 8 - 155 AH 12V Trojans with an  APC SMT3000 - 48 volt DC=>120 Volt AC inverter for emergency off-grid.   Also, "PriUPS" backup generator with APC SURT6000/SURT003  => 192 volt DC/240 volt split phase AC inverter.  
  • sub3marathonman
    sub3marathonman Solar Expert Posts: 300 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    Hopefully I don't violate any rules here, as I'm not trying to use the forum as advertising for something I'm actively trying to sell, but I have an HP Powertrust II MR 4.5kw, an APC Smart UPS 2200, and two APC 3000 units, though I'm not exactly sure without further checking them about the exact model. I was going to do the PriUPS method years ago, I got the equipment, was going to get things set up, and then decided to drop everything and try to get in on the Florida $4/watt rebate years ago. I did just manage to get the rebate, after finally listening to the guys at the electrical shop saying every time I went in, "Fire the electrician." I had a great group take over and between them and myself got the system up and running in time. Another guy I know lost half the rebate because of the despicable actions of the Florida politicians not living up to their word. But don't get me started on that! LOL

    I don't know if these UPSs still work, and they don't have any batteries so I haven't tested them. I don't plan on getting any batteries for any of them any time soon, so if somebody is interested you can send me a PM. I'm in Central Florida.

    If you want to read more about the PriUPS, google "Richard Factor," who was the pioneer with these setups. He's a very interesting and intelligent guy.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    Not a problem. Members are allowed to sell personal solar/re equipment.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    MarkC wrote: »
    That certainly seems to be the case. Is there a specific APC model number for this split phase transformer? It seems these UPS prices are all over the map on ebay now!

    Out of curiosity, how do the APC UPS get the back up batteries to a high enough voltage to drive its inverter? Has anyone added "battery backup" of a substantial amount directly to the UPS - and basically rid the system of a second battery backup (e.g. 12,36,48 volt traditional lead/acid)? To make this functional it seems one would need to find a (PV) charge controller that could charge this (powerful) UPS battery system directly?

    Not being an electrical engineer/designer, probably missing some functionality here, but it sure seems you are on the right track for Prius owners that are seriously interested in substantial emergency power. If our family all showed up at our remote home during a hurricane (which did happen during Ike), with full tanks for gas in every car, plus my planned storage, we could go for months with the Prius concept and be fairly comfortable.

    Read through my previous posts on this thread, I discuss the transformer, and adding an external battery pack (at 192 volts, with 16 12 volt batts) which is charged by the UPS itself.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    Hopefully I don't violate any rules here, as I'm not trying to use the forum as advertising for something I'm actively trying to sell, but I have an HP Powertrust II MR 4.5kw, an APC Smart UPS 2200, and two APC 3000 units, though I'm not exactly sure without further checking them about the exact model. I was going to do the PriUPS method years ago, I got the equipment, was going to get things set up, and then decided to drop everything and try to get in on the Florida $4/watt rebate years ago. I did just manage to get the rebate, after finally listening to the guys at the electrical shop saying every time I went in, "Fire the electrician." I had a great group take over and between them and myself got the system up and running in time. Another guy I know lost half the rebate because of the despicable actions of the Florida politicians not living up to their word. But don't get me started on that! LOL

    I don't know if these UPSs still work, and they don't have any batteries so I haven't tested them. I don't plan on getting any batteries for any of them any time soon, so if somebody is interested you can send me a PM. I'm in Central Florida.

    If you want to read more about the PriUPS, google "Richard Factor," who was the pioneer with these setups. He's a very interesting and intelligent guy.

    The models you mention aren't compatible with the Prius, only the models I mention earlier in this thread. Unless the generic 3000 models you mention are specifically SURT models.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • MarkC
    MarkC Solar Expert Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    I had read that - I think what confused me when looking at the specs on the SURT003, it simply states 240 volts output - not clarifying that it is split phase. However the four prong connector likely confirms the two 120 V phases (+ground and neutral)?

    Any thoughts on using the Prius with a traditional off-grid 48 volt system (Seems as if most ~ 4000 watt off grid systems will use 48 DC volt systems)? It does appear possible to use a charge controller (one of the higher voltage types) to charge a traditional 48 volt system directly from the traction battery - when the solar charge controller is "in the dark". These have all the "bells and whistles" to properly charge the batteries. There are a few 48 volt in /240 split phase out off-grid inverters out there, but quite expensive and generally have a second AC input (generator support), and can charge the batteries themselves. However, they are quite efficient and fit for service.
    3850 watts - 14 - 275SW SolarWorld Panels, 4000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy Grid tied inverter.  2760 Watts - 8 - 345XL Solar World Panels, 3000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy GT inverter.   3000 watts SMA/SPS power.  PV "switchable" to MidNite Classic 250ks based charging of Golf cart + spare battery array of 8 - 155 AH 12V Trojans with an  APC SMT3000 - 48 volt DC=>120 Volt AC inverter for emergency off-grid.   Also, "PriUPS" backup generator with APC SURT6000/SURT003  => 192 volt DC/240 volt split phase AC inverter.  
  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    MarkC wrote: »
    Any thoughts on using the Prius with a traditional off-grid 48 volt system (Seems as if most ~ 4000 watt off grid systems will use 48 DC volt systems)? It does appear possible to use a charge controller (one of the higher voltage types) to charge a traditional 48 volt system directly from the traction battery - when the solar charge controller is "in the dark". These have all the "bells and whistles" to properly charge the batteries. There are a few 48 volt in /240 split phase out off-grid inverters out there, but quite expensive and generally have a second AC input (generator support), and can charge the batteries themselves. However, they are quite efficient and fit for service.

    The one problem there is that charge controllers require one side of the "array" (the prius in this case) to be grounded, and the Prius has extensive ground fault protection. You _might_ get it to work by relying on the resistance between the car and the actual earth ground, but it would be worrisome to me.

    As an alternative consider a DC/DC converter set to output charge voltage (say 54 volts.) For example the RSP-2000-48 will work from a 130-360 volt DC input and give you 54 volts out at about 40 amps. You will have to be careful about current draw since the RSP-2000 cannot run in current limit for very long.
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    The SURT003 definitely has 120/240 split phase output, I have it feeding a subpanel via the L14-30. You can find the manual here: http://www.apc.com/prod_docs/results.cfm?DocType=User+Manual&query_type=99&sku=SURT003

    The DC-DC converter is a good idea. Personally I would just get a 48 volt charger that will accept 120 or 240 volts AC input, less hassle getting it to work right. The overall losses in the multiple conversions will be a little higher but since this is for an emergency backup system and not prime power I'd live with it. You already have losses within the Prius itself since it is designed to be a car and not a generator.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • MarkC
    MarkC Solar Expert Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    I was trying to decide (using the Prius) if it makes more sense to invest in a more or less standard off-grid inverter that would be powered by two sets (48 V) of golf cart batteries combined in parallel. One set maintained by a Midnite Kid from 6 solar panels and the other maintained by a Classic 250 from the Prius directly. I need the second set as spare anyway as the current set is fairly old.

    The off-grid inverter would be a 4000 watt split phase type and I would use all it's capacity to run a 1.5 ton AC and a 3/4 hp well pump (both split phase - plus some other small users). I realize, likely will have to start each of these separately, but this would be utilized only on extended outages - more or less in a "survive with water and some level of comfort in summer time Texas".

    Other alternates are a much more efficient split phase generator (sure wish Honda would make the 2000 watt "companion" series with a combined split phase output) - or - using the UPS route you have taken with the Prius. At this time, I'm just working thru the advantages/disadvantages and not really ready to do the actual design and "put my money where .....". Maybe other alternates I've not thought of?
    3850 watts - 14 - 275SW SolarWorld Panels, 4000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy Grid tied inverter.  2760 Watts - 8 - 345XL Solar World Panels, 3000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy GT inverter.   3000 watts SMA/SPS power.  PV "switchable" to MidNite Classic 250ks based charging of Golf cart + spare battery array of 8 - 155 AH 12V Trojans with an  APC SMT3000 - 48 volt DC=>120 Volt AC inverter for emergency off-grid.   Also, "PriUPS" backup generator with APC SURT6000/SURT003  => 192 volt DC/240 volt split phase AC inverter.  
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    The two loads you mention worry me, they are on the no-go list for any small system.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • MarkC
    MarkC Solar Expert Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    I have a rather high efficiency "hotel" style AC unit that draws about 5-6 FLA. Don't know startup. The well pump would be operated manually to refill containers and tubs for use as needed - not pressure up the house. The AC would be on from early evening to morning - for some comfort in sleeping. Both are 240 v split phase. Not sure of the well pump FLA or startup surge requirements. Again, this scenario is well into a long term outage while the local co-op is repairing lines after a hurricane - probably at the most 2-3 weeks. Not thinking at all of full house backup.

    Can't spend lots of money on this, but I need the 8 - 155 AH 12 v batteries anyway for my "off-road" golf cart - one operating and one spare set. Just trying to figure how to best use them - with the Sunny Boy SPS as a given - I've already determined that will work well to charge one set of batteries - as long as we have some sunny weather after the hurricane, which is normal.
    3850 watts - 14 - 275SW SolarWorld Panels, 4000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy Grid tied inverter.  2760 Watts - 8 - 345XL Solar World Panels, 3000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy GT inverter.   3000 watts SMA/SPS power.  PV "switchable" to MidNite Classic 250ks based charging of Golf cart + spare battery array of 8 - 155 AH 12V Trojans with an  APC SMT3000 - 48 volt DC=>120 Volt AC inverter for emergency off-grid.   Also, "PriUPS" backup generator with APC SURT6000/SURT003  => 192 volt DC/240 volt split phase AC inverter.  
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator
    techntrek wrote: »
    The two loads you mention worry me, they are on the no-go list for any small system.

    I would not call the Prius a "small" system. It's a portable battery with a auto-start genset ! Just add gas. And a big split phase inverter.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    I was referring to this:

    "I was trying to decide (using the Prius) if it makes more sense to invest in a more or less standard off-grid inverter that would be powered by two sets (48 V) of golf cart batteries combined in parallel. One set maintained by a Midnite Kid from 6 solar panels and the other maintained by a Classic 250 from the Prius directly."

    I don't think that is going to stand up to a conventional A/C running all night. The Prius + UPS will run it, no batteries needed. I got rid of my 22 kw battery bank once the Prius proved itself.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • MarkC
    MarkC Solar Expert Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    Techntrek - I understand your comment and agree from the perspective of the relatively small battery bank. However, with 50+ amps at 50 volts coming from the Classic (from Pruis) at night, I would think that would provide ample power back thru the off-grid inverter (likely a 4000 watt model) to run the A/C all night. This would be in addition to any extra battery capacity available at night - although minor. My intention using the Prius/Midnite Classic is for all conditions except when the (relatively small) battery bank gets low - then would have to crank up the "gas guzzling" 6500 watt generator under this option to re-charge the batts and run the A/C and well pump if needed all simultaneously (as a last resort). My thought was that the "standard" solar charge controller and inverter might be more efficient than the APC UPS/transformer system - which could be an advantage during an extended outage with lower gas consumption. The big disadvantage is complexity and cost?? Again, any suggestions/logic checks are appreciated.

    BTW - upon testing, if the system handled all scenarios without the 6500 watt generator, I'd get rid of it!
    3850 watts - 14 - 275SW SolarWorld Panels, 4000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy Grid tied inverter.  2760 Watts - 8 - 345XL Solar World Panels, 3000 TL-US SMA Sunny Boy GT inverter.   3000 watts SMA/SPS power.  PV "switchable" to MidNite Classic 250ks based charging of Golf cart + spare battery array of 8 - 155 AH 12V Trojans with an  APC SMT3000 - 48 volt DC=>120 Volt AC inverter for emergency off-grid.   Also, "PriUPS" backup generator with APC SURT6000/SURT003  => 192 volt DC/240 volt split phase AC inverter.  
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Using a Prius as a generator

    I'd keep the generator as a backup. While my Prius is now my primary source, I have 2 generators for backup. You can never have too many backups.

    Then spend the $300 for a SURT6000 (4000 watts, 6000 surge) plus $250 for a SURT003 transformer. The UPS is 93% efficient according to APC's docs, you won't do better with another inverter but you might match that. There is the loss in the transformer, I believe 90% efficient, so about 83% overall efficiency. Gas-wise my identical setup is almost exactly as efficient as my Honda inverter-generator.

    Forget the rest of the stuff. Why add the complexity of batteries, chargers, and a more expensive inverter when the Prius + UPS + transformer gives you the 120/240 split-phase that you need to run everything. It is quiet, too, quieter than my Honda and way quieter than my Generac.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is