Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

Mariner777
Mariner777 Solar Expert Posts: 29
I've been using a morningstar sunsaver duo charge controller for about 6 weeks now. For the first 5 weeks it seemed to function flawlessly. At first I had it on one bank only and then for the last 10 days I had it on 2 banks (I split off two of my batteries to form a second bank as I thought they might charge better together that way and I did see more total amp hours going through the remote meter)

Three days ago around 2pm the meters gone to its red led mode which means critical error. I disconnect and reconnect everything and it charges for another two hours then does the same thing. I repeat and it charges till 2pm the next day - same pattern 3 days in a row of getting the red led at 2 and around 5pm. My only explanation could be heat as I reconsolidated the banks and it still had the red led error at the same times of day. 2pm is around the peak. I do have 470 watts in theory of PVs but on my boat there is always shading and I've never seen more then about 18 amps so I doubt its hitting the 25 amp rating of the controller. The battery temperature sensor reached 127 degrees F the other day which is about 10 degrees hotter then usual so perhaps a heatwave is knocking it offline. However I am annoyed at the power lost, the constant rewiring and dissappointed at the mere 5 weeks I got with morningstar's product before having such recurring problems. Am going to call them in the morning and see what they say.

Is morningstar one of the better PWM brands? I don't want mppt due to the shading and variety of sizes and types of panels on my boat so the best pwm with a good reliable heat sink is probably the best. I already have the remote meter so may go with another morningstar model. I dont really like how it seems much of my energy is going into this heatsink at times - is there an alternative like running the extra power to a koolatron peltier coolbox or fans perhaps on the back of the panels to help cool them down? Theres a bunch of solar panel fans on ebay right now that look like giant PC fans that look interesting. The cooler would be best as I'm just dying of heat. Am half tempted to go buy a cheap generator and one hose room AC and just burn fossil fuels to keep cool (trying to resist this it will be fall in a couple of weeks)...

Comments

  • Mariner777
    Mariner777 Solar Expert Posts: 29
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    Another thought is I cant afford to have my solar system go offline - I rely on it for all my power needs at the moment. I have wind generators but there is no wind at all. I think I need to rethink my setup to include multiple charge controllers so that if one screws up I still have some power going in to the system. My array consists of 25 panels now and I am hoping to add 2 more soon for something around 600-700 watts total in the end. I think grouping my panels by brand and capacity and feeding them into seperate controllers would be the most foolproof redundant setup. I like having the remote meter that tells me how many amps I'm getting etc -- I realize a battery monitor would do this too but I can't wire in a shunt to this setup so thats out. I suppose I just won't know exactly how many amps are going in or out if I do this but at least I wont leave the boat for the day and come home and find I got no power cause the controller tripped and the batteries are empty...
  • Mariner777
    Mariner777 Solar Expert Posts: 29
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    Another thought is if I am going to go with multiple charge controllers perhaps a bunch of small mppt controllers might be feasible. The issue is shading - all the panels are in parallel but many of them are shaded at any given time by the mast and rigging and boom etc. I have for example 10 5 watt panels, 8 15 watt panels, 2 25 watters, 2 24s, 1 10, 1 20, 1 145 watt panel. I could group all the 5 watters into one mppt controller, and maybe all the 15s, the 20, the 24s and the 25 into another and then have the 145 on yet another. I hope to add two more larger panels that could also go into this bigger mppt unit.

    If some of the panels are shaded will the mppt perform worse then a pwm? I read somewhere that it would as it would try to boost the voltage of the shaded panel or something but now that I'm thinking about it again and googling around it seems I wouldn't have much to loose from going mppt. I might not gain a whole lot as its hot as hell here and the panels are likely operating at lower voltages between the heat and the shading. In the winter the mppt might make a substantial difference as the voltages might be higher.

    Finally what would happen if I paralleled this entire smorgasborg of panels into one large mppt controller like I did with the sunsaver duo? Would it perform worse then the PWM? I forgot why I had decided that pwms would outperform mppts for my case I think it had something to do with slight voltage variations from the different panels and what would happen when a panel was shaded...
  • bmet
    bmet Solar Expert Posts: 630 ✭✭
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    I'm wondering if all these small panels are working against you. It sounds as if you have alot of wiring being tied together for very small amount of current. You could replace most of them with another large panel, and perhaps gain some space back on your boat?
  • Joe_B
    Joe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    127F is insanely high for battery temp.
  • Seven
    Seven Solar Expert Posts: 292 ✭✭
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    Remove the last batteries you added and see if the problem goes away. You may have an issue there because the problem started when you added them.
  • Urbandialect
    Urbandialect Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    if your panels are wired in parallel and one of them goes into the shade and the voltage drops then the voltage will drop on the whole array to the voltage of your lowest panel. causing the red light to come on, Your going to have to use a multiple charge controllers.

    The thing is you said this wasn't happening until you split the battery bank, and wired 1 charge controller to 2 battery banks, which kind of throws off the theory that it's happing due to voltage drop.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?
    if your panels are wired in parallel and one of them goes into the shade and the voltage drops then the voltage will drop on the whole array to the voltage of your lowest panel. causing the red light to come on, Your going to have to use a multiple charge controllers.
    In general, for a 12 volt system, paralleling panels with Vmp>15-16 volts (nominal Vmp=17.5 volts) should not be a problem if one (or more) get shaded. The shaded panel will just simply output no more current until it is in full sun again.

    Some panels have series (blocking) diodes, some do not. Blocking diodes are not even needed until you get to 24 or 48 volt battery banks (leakage current is not very high).

    Probably with lots of parallel panels is that a short or an open wire is going to be difficult to diagnose.

    As always, I suggest a DC current clamp meter so you can measure current flow (and direction) to debug and make sure everything is otherwise operating normally.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    > The battery temperature sensor reached 127 degrees F the other day which is about 10 degrees hotter then usual so perhaps a heatwave is knocking it offline.


    Well, if nothing else, your batteries are shot, or the temp sensor is bad. When the sensor reports real temps, maybe things will start working right.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?
    Mariner777 wrote: »
    ... Finally what would happen if I paralleled this entire smorgasborg of panels into one large mppt controller like I did with the sunsaver duo? ......

    MPPT controllers go bonkers with mismatched panels and un-even illumnation. PWM is the best bet for the mess.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Joe_B
    Joe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?
    mike90045 wrote: »
    > The battery temperature sensor reached 127 degrees F the other day which is about 10 degrees hotter then usual so perhaps a heatwave is knocking it offline.


    Well, if nothing else, your batteries are shot, or the temp sensor is bad. When the sensor reports real temps, maybe things will start working right.


    I will say it again, your battery temperature is WAY too high. You dont say what kind of batteries you have but just for reference, a Trojan L16-REB has a MAX operating temperature of 113F.
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    One additional thought, (I can't count, really some additional thoughts),

    Check to make sure that the Battery Temp Sensor is still attached to a battery, that its wiring is intact, and, ideally that there is some insulation over the BTS, so that it is more likely to measure the temp of the electrolyte, rather than ambient temps.

    Furthermore, 127, to me, is a bit of an odd temp. Perhaps that is the limit of the input. Ie two to the EDIT: OOPPSss meant two to the seven. It may indicate that the BTS is open circuited, or shorted (?).

    This may be a bogus thought, as the BTS input is converted to digital info, and an OC might not read as 127, but it is a thought, as batteries are often keel weight, which should be cooler than that, unless the ambient temps there abe about 150 F.

    Good Luck, Keep Cool, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • Mariner777
    Mariner777 Solar Expert Posts: 29
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    Well I took the controller offline for a day and reconnected it elevated up on some cardboard to help keep it cool. It didn't trip today at least while I was watching. I think I should get another controller as this one seems to be possibly too hot or perhaps overloaded.

    With a smorgasborg of panels PWM is likely better. However I am intending a pair of 90 watt panels added to my transom and perhaps an mppt could work back there - am not sure its worth the cost.

    Can anyone give me anecdotal experience about how adding mppt increased output on a small 4-700 watt system?

    I think the morningstar stuff gets high reviews so I might get a sunsaver mppt and or another sunsaver duo.

    I suppose I could try some of the cheaper offerings but they are not very much cheaper and get mixed reviews.

    As to getting rid of small panels for big ones thats not practical as the small ones were specifically selected to fit like tiles on hatches, in little used areas of the cabintop etc. They also combat shading. I cant just slap massive panels on the boat - am going to on my wind generator towers and am contemplating ways to add more solar but it seems seaworthiness is rapidly diminished with large panels.
  • notsobright
    notsobright Solar Expert Posts: 247 ✭✭
    Re: Charge controller screwing up time for a new one?

    hi mariner777. I just saw your post here. I have PM'd you on this subject. as I saw another thread before this one.


    BTW what are the pin switches set on on your SSD and what are your batteries?

    also, does your SSD have a green terminal where the temp sensor connects or is it black?


    thanks