Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

RZ73
RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
I posted on another thread about Windmax 2kw turbines, though most of the discussion on that thread was about the Hy-Energy 2kw. Someone pointed out they are not the same and said what I had was a VK-20 2kw. Ok.. it failed and I told that story on that thread but now I've fixed it! Boy do I have an education in these cheap peices of junk! So anyone else with one that wants to discuss possibly fixiing thiers please contact me. I'm not saying mine will run much longer than it did the first time, but after taking it all apart and spreading it across my bench, then successfully getting it back running I think I know it pretty well.

The short version of the story is a spring broke holding one of the slip ring brushes and there where some very charred areas on the slip rings. We just chucked the pivot shaft in a lathe and turned down the slip rings and put it back together. That was a feat in itself but with the help of a hydraulic press it it went back together. Been spinning for about 3 days now and if it lasts more then a week like it did the first time, I'll call it a success!

RZ73

Comments

  • RZ73
    RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    Anyone that has one of these that's failed but still has the charge controller please let me know if you'd like to get rid of it. I understand these are a weak point also and I'd like to have a backup.

    KingAir99@hotmail.com
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    RZ73, Good job on fixing that V-20 turbine and getting it running again. I see from your pictures that you also work on other devices with propellers.

    Yes, the V-20 controllers do also look like they are another weak point. From what I see, they would "melt down" from excessive heat during very high, sustained winds. The design of the 4kW resistor dump loads in the same case as the circuitry is poor. Even though they have a small dividing wall between the 2 sections, it is easy to see that some of the heat from the dump loads will be able to flow around to the other side because of the way the fans and airflow goes in the case. That "dividing wall" between the 2 sections is not sealed very well. Also, they use ordinary wire to run the power to the 4kW resistor loads. Those wires could easily melt/burn during times of high wind where the dump load is being actuated a lot. Before my turbine died, during high winds when the dump load was actuating a lot to try to brake the turbine, things got very hot and smelled like something was burning. The hot glue melt that they used to "lock" the nuts and bolts on the terminals of the big resistors also melted. Not very smart the way they put things together.

    I am using my old V20 controller (the 4kW resistors and metal enclosure) as an emergency backup manual dump load for my current wind turbine, so I am still using mine.

    Edward
  • RZ73
    RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    Seems I spoke too soon.. now the controller has apparently failed. Lotsa wind here and the wind-gen just turns slowly.. If I pull the fuses from all three phases it spins up quickly so it hasn't failed in the PMG motor like it did last time.

    Just finished the framework for 8 220w solar panels. Since the controller for this Windmax turbine is advertised as a "hybrid" controller, supposed to take wind and solar inputs I was going to use it, but after this I'll be looking for a stand alone charge controller for the Pv panesl. Leaning towards a Morningstar PS-30M.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    Wind controllers can be used with solar panels--but you should get better charging control (bulk/absorb/float) with a series connected solar charge controller.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    Sorry to hear about your troubles RZ73.

    I can relate. I had a bad controller too. I had the same design turbine before, and I had nothing but troubles with it from Day 1. They are made by this company http://www.fortechmail.com/f-n/index.asp and they have quite the reputation for producing junk. My controller was defective right out of the box and did exactly what you describe (spin slowly in high winds). After getting a replacement controller, other problems began showing up. There was always something that concerned me about it. Finally, the stator burned out and almost threw a blade. Thankfully, I was finally rid of that headache!

    Edward
  • RZ73
    RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    I picked up a Morningstar 30 PWM controller for my solar panels. Got it off Ebay for $100! (new) Hopefully this weekend I'll have the panels all wired up and going.

    Thanks for the website for the wind-gen manufacturer. I did send them an e-mail but have no real expectations that they'll do anything.

    The PMG motor is really not that complicated and anything other than a short in the stator it should run just fine. The biggest problem I saw with it's construction was there wasn't a gasket or seal in it anywhere. Nothing to keep the water out. I sealed it up pretty good when I reassmbling it.

    Looking around for an alternative to the cheap chinese controller I got some info from www.colemanair.us they have the rectifiers and stuff to control a 3-phase PMG motor at what I thought were reasonable prices. Problem is how do I justify spending any more money on this thing! All that has to happen is the little spring applying tension to the brush holder to fail again and it's all for naught.

    I think the windmax may just become yard art... I got better things to do like mess with my airplanes!
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    The guy who makes the Coleman Air controllers offers some interesting products. I had one of his older diversion controllers, but it was troublesome because of it's slow response. That was because it has a big relay and simple circuit that had some real limitations. The voltage sample rate was every 1 sample every 5 seconds under many conditions, and then it would switch to one sample per second when the voltage would rise near the trip point. Anyway, all that to say that it was too slow to respond to quick changes in voltage (like during big wind gusts). His newer PWM controller which uses MOSFETs instead of a relay looks interesting; however, once you get to $375 then it is getting expensive. Not sure if that turbine is worth it.

    http://www.colemanair.us/vp_asp/scripts/shopexd.asp?bc=no&ccode=C150-SMA

    I'd also recommend considering the Midnite Classic. It is a great MPPT controller that enables you to harvest more power from your wind turbine. BUT, once again, I'm not sure if that turbine is really worth investing a lot more money into. I would not have high hopes for that turbine lasting long term. I know that it is very simple, but the quality is so poor that even the relatively small number of components are prone to failure (as you've also discovered). Here's some information my HY-2000 wind turbine control system using a Midnite Classic 150. The Classic is a great product.

    http://midnitesolar.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=130.0

    By the way, a simpler system than mine could be set up. You could reuse the 3 phase rectifier from your old controller. It is a 200A rectifier so that's good. Then you could re-use the big green resistors as your dumpload. The Classic could be set up with one of the AUX outputs controlling a DC solid state relay to dump to that 4kW resistor bank to keep your turbine RPM and output voltage under control. Just not sure if it's worth the time/money to invest anything more into that turbine.

    The airplanes sound like fun!

    Edward
  • RZ73
    RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    <Just not sure if it's worth the time/money to invest anything more into that turbine.>

    That seems to be the resounding theme. In the meantime I did get 8 220w panels up this weekend. Since I didn't get the Morningstar controller in time for the weekend I went ahead and hooked up half the panels to the "hybrid" controller the Windmax came with. I remember reading something about it only being able to handle 800w of solar or something so that' why only half. It works! At mid-day it was showing 52v and 5 amps and the FX was actually "selling". So I have confidence that the FX is working and wired properly.

    I've looked at the HY-2000 and it sounds like a good investment. The Windmax was a "deal" from a buddy so I don't have much money tied into it. (btw, when he sold it to me, it was working fine, but his wife didnt' like it and made him take it down) I'm not out a lof money, just time. I feel for anyone who actually paid $3500for one!

    I'm not going to spend any money trying to fix it but I will tinker with it till it finally blows up. Then, with a tower and all the other peripherals already set up seems logical to find something better. Till then it's just yard art.

    Ryszard
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    HAM radio antenna tower?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    Ryszard, Good job on getting the solar set up. Looks good.

    I am very happy with my HY-2000 wind turbine. I think the HY-3000 is also a good choice. There is someone on this forum (Dave) that has 3 of the HY-3000 wind turbines on his property. Last I heard from him, he was very happy with them.

    By the way, I once saw that Windmax has the HY-3000 on sale for $2799 which is only $200 more than the HY-2000. I don't know if they will ever have such a sale again, but it seemed like a reasonable price.

    Another suggestion... if you do look into getting a HY wind turbine in the future, try to find out if it comes with the new controller. A few months ago, I was told by someone at the HY factory that they were working on a new & improved controller for the HY wind turbines. You might contact the factory and ask them about the status of their new controller. Now that my wind turbine is controlled by a Midnite Classic 150, I haven't kept track of the release of the new HY controller. Here's their website...
    http://www.hyenergy.com.cn/index.aspx?language=en

    Another idea for a wind turbine is the new Excel XL.1 wind turbine that is supposed to come packaged with a Midnite Solar MPPT controller. Normally, this Excel was rated at around 1kW, but with the Midnite controller it was putting out over 2kW. This looks like another very good choice to me.

    Edward
  • dagelt
    dagelt Registered Users Posts: 24
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    Hello RZ73 and sorry to hear about your V20 experience.... I too have had some issues with the V 20 turbine. They are behind the shed in the junk pill.


    I am still having great luck with my HY3000's. They are running great but I too think they need a better controller. I WOULD RECOMMEND THEM TO ANYONE. Actually when the wind gets to 25 to 28 MPH I have a little trouble getting rid of all the power.
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    Hello David,

    Good to hear from. and glad that your turbines are still working well. We are having a good wind day here (18-20mph average) and my HY-2000 has produced over 23kwh today as shown on my Midnite Classic controller.

    Edward
  • RZ73
    RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    I really apologize for bumping such on old thread but thought some of you might like to see this. Kinda like a bad car wreck, you can't not look!

    Last summer I was struggling with this peice of junk Magnets4less calls a wind turbine. I finally got it working well. It only took me actually going up to Plano and sitting in front of the owner, Jeff Lee until he made me a deal on a "new style" controller. That's a story in itself. Anyway the thing made electricity until last October when it stopped turning. I bought a business around that same time frame and have been very busy so I just said "screw it" and let it sit there. Last weekend I couldn't stand it anymore and my morbid curiousity got the best of me. I laid over the tower and pulled the motor. No wonder it wouldnt spin it had a huge amount of resitance. When I turned it by hand it just went "clunk, clunk, clunk." but it wasn't a mechanical clunk. I could feel every magnet. All three phases where shorted so that made sense. Today I split the case. Wow! Talk about fried! When I disconnected wires from the melted brush holders the motor ran smoothly. You'd think I'd be smarter by now, but any of you guys that have junked your Windmax V-20's got a pivot shaft and slip wring assembly you want to get rid of? I'll pay the postage! LOL!!

    Ryszard
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    Ryszard, Sounds like you could be a glutton for punishment! :D I guess it can be fun challenge to get something to work again, but if it was me, then I don't think I'd want to spend too much time on those turbines.
  • RZ73
    RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    <Sounds like you could be a glutton for punishment! >

    I guess I'll take that as a compliment. I'm a tinkerer at heart and the challenge is definitely there. I wonder how many who had these fail on them actually took them apart to see why. It's becoming obvious the weak point is the slip ring assembly. Last time I just turned down the slip rings, fixed a spring and was back in business. Sure, I have better things to do. I have a hangar full of airplanes I'd much rather be messing with, but last August we had very high winds. Those where the winds that started all the fires here in Texas. That weekend I actually witnessed my meter running backwards! It's inspiring. Then again, October of last year this peice of junk Windmax failed, again. I was determined to just leave it there as yard art, but last weekend my curiosity got the better of me and here I am fixing it again. After doing some research I don't think it will be hard to repair at all. A fellow airplane nut has a Bridgeport and a lathe in his garage. There's not much we can't make.
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    I know what you mean Ryszard about being a tinkerer. I am the same way. I'm just at a stage of life where I have to walk away from things that don't look too promising. With 8 children, they need me more than other projects in life! I do admire your determination to make this thing work. Too bad that the manufacturer didn't have the same determination when they developed these turbines.
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    After sitting for over 1 year, I finally decided to take apart my burned out wind turbine. Actually, I didn't intend to waste any more time on it, but one of my sons really wanted to see how it was made, so I took it apart for the sake of "education" for my son. Otherwise, it would not have been worth the time and effort and mess with it. Here's what we found... burned out windings. Strong, burned electrical smell.

    burned-out-wind-turbine.jpg

    RZ73, Are you still looking for a slip ring assembly. Other than some burned wire insulation that that appears to have gotten near the brush assembly, it looks quite clean still. If you are interested in getting this, then send me a private message with your address and I can get you a shipping quote. If you are in a big hurry, then it probably won't work out, because I would plan to just wait until the next time that UPS comes to deliver something here and then I can hand him the package. If I request a UPS pickup, it will cost something like $12 extra. I live out in the boonies and they charge a lot for the pickup request fee. So, if you are not in a big hurry, then I can try to help you out if you pay shipping and can wait until UPS comes here the next time. I'm not sure when that will be, since it all depends on when I order something next and the time for it to get here.

    wind-turbine-slip-rings.jpg

    Just for the sake of having this in the archives in this thread for future searchers, here's a page where I document my bad experience with this poor excuse for a home wind turbine! :grr

    http://www.rc-trucks.org/home-wind-turbine.htm
  • RZ73
    RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    Here I go bumping a very old thread, again, but once more I'm dealing with a shut down Windmax turbine. I took it down today and all three phases are shorted. Without the time to do much more I dropped it off at an electric motor repair place to see if they could split the case for me. Last time I had this down it was the slip rings that failed. I fixed that by completely bypassing the cheap, plastic slip ring holders Windmax originally had. We installed an "external" set of slip rings and it's worked fine for about a year and a half. High winds and an ice storm last March finally killed it. I just haven't had the time to mess with it so far and not very motivated since I've repaired this thing so many times. My solar works great. Never needs anything from me. This Wing thing.. I feel like it's maintenance man!

    We like having a wind turbine though. Makes great yard art and way of measuring the fly-bys my buddies make when they fly in. If you're not lower than the wind turbine, it don't count.

    Not sure I want to even consider repairing this junk anymore.. so what's a good replacement? I haven't kept up with new stuff.

    Thanks
    RyszardAttachment not found.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    If the failure is slip rings--Think about simply drop a single (outdoor rated) cable (with appropriate support at the top) from the head to the base. Put a plug/disconnect box in the base so you can "unwrap" the cable once every few months/year or so (depending on setup and how level, the turbine should not usually wrap the cable--The swings to the left should just about equal the swings to the right). Saves the whole deal with slip rings.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    I agree with the yard art statement. I have been making all my turbines. If you have two or two and a half weeks free time, they aren't that hard to do. I don't get very much power out of them and it isn't worth it from a power stand point but I still like it and want to build a bigger one.

    Wind is a harsh inviorment and you could have troubles no matter what you do but they are still kind of fun to watch and not really that hard to build if you decide to try that rout.
    Good luck
  • RZ73
    RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    This time the problem is not in the slip rings. The old slip rings with their plastic brush holders where part of the problem. In high winds the electronic braking would cause the brush holders to melt and short out the PMG. We completely removed the original slip rings/brush assy and added an external slip ring. This time the three phases are shorted out at the PMG. The insulation on the leads coming out of the PMG is brittle and breaking off. The only thing left that might not be fatal is if the insulations failed to the point the three phases are shorting out where they're potted in the back of the PMG. I can't tell that till the case is opened up. If it's not that then it's a short in the windings and that will be cost prohibitive to repair.
  • RZ73
    RZ73 Registered Users Posts: 15
    Re: Windmax (Magnets4less) 2kw VK-20

    <If you have two or two and a half weeks free time,>

    I can't remember the last time I had that kind of free time!