New Lithium Ion battery for us?

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andyrud
andyrud Solar Expert Posts: 70 ✭✭
in Solar Product Reviews & Opinions #1
I was in West Marine buying some 12 volt circuit breakers and came across some interesting info about a company named MasterVolt that supplies electrical components for yachts. They are selling a Lithium Ion battery that has 320 Ah at 12 volts. They say you can use the entire 320 amps with no damage and be totally discharged 2000 times. I have a lead acid 1150 AH battery pack that I really shouldn't go below 50% discharge. That would mean I only need 2 of them to equal what I have. Anybody seen these or have any more info? I don't know how much they are selling for yet.

Andy
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    Let google be your friend...

    Really too easy, do you work for MasterVolt?

    http://www.mastervolt.com/marine/products/li-ion/mli-12-320/
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #3
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    Like the guarantee - 2000 cycles or 2 years. In a RE application I wonder which will happen first.

    Lithium ion batteries - from what I know you do not want to leave them fully charged nor fully discharge them - they need to float in between.

    They don't mention cost.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    http://www.dedicatedmarinesupplies.com/products/MLI-12%7B47%7D320-Ah-%252d-4.3-kWh-Power-Pack-Battery.html

    Price: $6,635.00
    SKU: PN 66010320
    Mastervolt
    Weight: 106.00 LBS

    ouch that price hurts, I need 8 of them !!
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #5
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    Not to mention the 24 hour watchman to guard Fort Knox or would that be Fort Mike?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    This is a prime example of one of the biggest stumbling blocks to advancing RE systems: people unwilling to pay a little extra money to further the cause! :p

    I'd need two of those batteries Mike quoted for my system. Let's see, how man L16RE-A's can I buy for $12,000? About 40. Or ten total battery changes. Enough to last 100 years, which I certainly won't.
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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    come on Cariboocoot. Dont you be the stumbling block .. Advance the cause now.. You can do it.:D
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    Can someone explain why they have the same discharge at C1 all the way to C20?

    thanks
    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #9
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    LI batteries have very low internal resistance and very "fast" chemical reaction times... The battery outputs the same AH at C/20 to C/1 test currents.

    From the rating sheet, they support:
    Pulse current (10 sec) <3200 A

    Or C*10 surge current vs C/2.5 as the typical surge current for a flooded cell lead acid battery. Or ~25 more current for a similar AH rating.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?
    john p wrote: »
    come on Cariboocoot. Don't you be the stumbling block .. Advance the cause now.. You can do it.:D

    Okay, loan me $12,000. Real CDN$, please; not that Australian Kangaroo money. :p
    I'll pay you back - in 100 years.

    Maybe someday these will be common enough to bring the price down to reasonable. Then all we'd have to do is solve the 18% efficiency panels problem. That will probably take some time and technology like the x-ray etching of microcrystals or something.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?
    BB. wrote: »
    LI batteries have very low internal resistance and very "fast" chemical reaction times...

    One of the scary things with new tech batteries, I was introduced to the ability of NiMH batteries quick discharge, when I put a pack of 4 in my pocket while photographing a wedding, shorted out against some change, smokin', and a melted plastic carrier, and blistered thigh, these were 16 or 1800 mA.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #12
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?
    Photowhit wrote: »
    One of the scary things with new tech batteries, I was introduced to the ability of NiMH batteries quick discharge, when I put a pack of 4 in my pocket while photographing a wedding, shorted out against some change, smokin', and a melted plastic carrier, and blistered thigh, these were 16 or 1800 mA.

    I have done the same with alkaline - but it only gets a bit warm to tell you the batteries are probably now useless.
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  • tallgirl
    tallgirl Solar Expert Posts: 413 ✭✭
    #13
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?
    russ wrote: »
    I have done the same with alkaline - but it only gets a bit warm to tell you the batteries are probably now useless.

    It's easy to make mistakes with any battery technology. I used to SCUBA dive using rechargable batteries in my backup light. One night I decided to discharge the NiMH batteries in the light, so I turned it on. The next morning when I them out to put them in the recharger, I found out I'd put Duracell's in instead of the rechargables.

    Oops! One dead set of batteries!
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  • john p
    john p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    Cariboocoot at least AU dollars a woth a tiny bit more than US dollars. I aint gunna lend ya the dough. im poooor. i cant even afford to buy myself a decent battery pack:grr
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?
    john p wrote: »
    Cariboocoot at least AU dollars a woth a tiny bit more than US dollars. I aint gunna lend ya the dough. im poooor. i cant even afford to buy myself a decent battery pack:grr

    Me too. Even though CDN$ is higher than the US right now it doesn't seem to have improved purchasing power one little bit! :grr
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  • fish
    fish Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
    #16
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    Hope I'm not out of place on this - still pretty new. These are the newer tech Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. They are also half the weight of normal batteries.
    The military has been using them and now some private companies are. Powerenz uses them in their high end portable systems. If you google them a company comes up that assembles them. You can still buy a 55 Ahr with charger for 1,300.00 if your quick!
    Hopefully the price will come down quickly.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #17
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    Fish,

    You are fine--We always appreciate information about exiting and new technologies.

    I believe this is the site you are referring to:

    www.powerenz.com

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • fish
    fish Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
    #18
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    Re: New Lithium Ion battery for us?

    Yes, that's it. Thanks for the link - I think lots of folks here might like to browse through it. Great videos of the products.
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