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  • 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Hi, I'm new to this forum, but not to wind power. In the '80's I rebuilt & put up a Wincharger 32volt single blade & ran it for a couple years ,until it vibrated off the tower. I want to try again withe same generator, and combine w/ solar. Can I charge a 24volt bat bank w/ my 32volt machine? And also charge w/ a24volt solar bank? Thanks.

  • #2

    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

    Originally posted by weedtreehugger View Post
    Hi, I'm new to this forum, but not to wind power. In the '80's I rebuilt & put up a Wincharger 32volt single blade & ran it for a couple years ,until it vibrated off the tower. I want to try again withe same generator, and combine w/ solar. Can I charge a 24volt bat bank w/ my 32volt machine? And also charge w/ a24volt solar bank? Thanks.
    i am not familiar with the wind turbine, but for the turbine that might depend on the consistent voltages you would see from it. if it hovers around 24v for your winds then this would not be good enough to deliver a charge to a 24v battery bank as this may require voltages up to around 30v+. consistent 32v would be good to charge a 24v battery bank as it even would have the 2v leeway for the regulation circuit requirements and other losses. that is cutting it way too close and my gut says no on 24v. you know what it can do better than i though.

    the requirements for solar are the same as consistency in voltage is needed. now pvs during high heat can lose a bit of the voltage and they tend to be pulled down in voltage under optimal load (at their max power point) so you will have a higher need on the voltage specs. for 24v batteries we like to see about 35v or better for the vmp total. if the vmp voltage goes too high then we often recommend an mppt cc to maximize the charge to the batteries. what may be considered too high is up for debate and even 34.5v would work with 35v-38v as a typical good range one can use for pwm ccs if so desired.
    NIEL

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    • #3

      Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

      Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

      Originally posted by niel View Post
      i am not familiar with the wind turbine, but for the turbine that might depend on the consistent voltages you would see from it. if it hovers around 24v for your winds then this would not be good enough to deliver a charge to a 24v battery bank as this may require voltages up to around 30v+. consistent 32v would be good to charge a 24v battery bank as it even would have the 2v leeway for the regulation circuit requirements and other losses. that is cutting it way too close and my gut says no on 24v. you know what it can do better than i though.

      the requirements for solar are the same as consistency in voltage is needed. now pvs during high heat can lose a bit of the voltage and they tend to be pulled down in voltage under optimal load (at their max power point) so you will have a higher need on the voltage specs. for 24v batteries we like to see about 35v or better for the vmp total. if the vmp voltage goes too high then we often recommend an mppt cc to maximize the charge to the batteries. what may be considered too high is up for debate and even 34.5v would work with 35v-38v as a typical good range one can use for pwm ccs if so desired.
      Thanks for your prompt reply.
      My turbine is a 1930's Wincharger 32 volt 1200 watt with the single blade and a paddle governor. I had it running for a couple of years and it put out 90 to 100 kw per month ( I had a meter form the electric company). It charged a large 32 volt bank of telephone co batteries. Ran lights and one 32 volt motor in my cabinet shop. I know it will put out enough voltage for the 24v bank of batteries, what I am wondering is if I will lose a lot of amperage if it is only charging 24volt instead of 32v, and if I can run it on the same battery bank as a 24 volt photovoltaic system? Or will it overcharge the batteries if it is putting out 36 volts? It is a DC generator.

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

        Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

        Does it have a regulator? The regulators of that era were electromechanical, vibrating armature type.
        If so, it probably will not be any good. They did not last long.
        At any rate if it has a regulator and if it is working, you would need to recalibrate to run on 24 volts.
        You might be able to put some more turns on the coil to make it operate at 24 volts.
        Sometimes they had a series resistance in the sense circuit.
        If so, cutting it down or taking it out completely would lower its control point.

        Or you could just hook it up to a 24 V battery. It would charge it.
        But it could overcharge if you left it unattended.
        It depends on your relative battery size and power usage.

        As for expected power, It will cut in at a somewhat lower wind speed.
        But the charging current will be approximately the same, maybe a little more.
        So it will charge at a little less power but probably not enough less to make a practical difference.
        20-Suntek 270 W on single axis tracker, 20-Suntek 290 W fixed, 4-XW60, two strings Trojan L-16H, One string Interstate L-16,
        XW6048, 4-2500 W MSW inverters connected through 10KW xformer, 10 KW Kohler LP remote start, Home built 60 amp charger,
        Modified Kohler transfer grid/solar switch. 5 Ton water source heat pump open loop, runs off solar with VFD, DHW provided by hp,

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

          Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

          Would not a Midnight classic handle this?

          Tony
          Please note, being a moderator does not add any weight to my opinions 300 watts Siemens/BP panels,plus a Sun 90,, making ~400. ~30 amps into Rogue MPT-3024, 450 ah of Trojan T-105, Morningstar ts300 inverter, a Tri-Metric meter.a collection of antique generators, plus 2 Honda eu-1000i's (also a BS2512 IX controller) and assorted other stuff!

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

            Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

            If the wind turbine is worth the investment and capable of higher RPM/Voltages--The Midnite Classic + Clipper system that Tony mentioned has the ability to (roughly) double the kWH harvest from your turbine (using MPPT vs just "hardwiring" to the battery bank). But it is not cheap--so the "extra power" should somewhat justify the costs of the system before spending the cash.

            -Bill
            20x BP 4175B panels (replacement) + Xantrex GT 3.3 inverter for 3kW Grid Tied system + Honda eu2000i Inverter/Generator for emergency backup.

            Comment


            • #7

              Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

              Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

              ok you are charging 32v (sorry meant 24v) batteries and do most likely have a primitive regulator, but the guys are right that a classic and clipper may work out good for you. contact the guys at midnite solar for better specifics.

              i'm curious as to the power rating on that turbine if you know it?
              Last edited by niel; December 22nd, 2012, 11:24.
              NIEL

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                Originally posted by niel View Post
                ok you are charging 32v batteries and do most likely have a primitive regulator, but the guys are right that a classic and clipper may work out good for you. contact the guys at midnite solar for better specifics.

                i'm curious as to the power rating on that turbine if you know it?
                Turbine is 1200 watts, probably @25mph. I had a control panel that I think had one of those clicker type regulators they used to use cars, but it got lost in the shuffle. A Classic w/mppt would be wonderful, but not sure I can afford one.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                  Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                  Originally posted by weedtreehugger View Post
                  Hi, I'm new to this forum, but not to wind power. In the '80's I rebuilt & put up a Wincharger 32volt single blade & ran it for a couple years ,until it vibrated off the tower. I want to try again withe same generator, and combine w/ solar. Can I charge a 24volt bat bank w/ my 32volt machine?
                  You have a WinCharger Giant with the 11' prop and 1:6 geared generator. That will NOT work with a Classic controller because it is wound field with a self-exciting shunt generator and will run at way too high of voltage and burn the field out. It should work fine on 24V because the old 32V telco banks used to run in the high 20's when they were discharged.

                  The field in the generator is excited by the generator's output. So if the output is "clamped" lower than 32V the field current will also be lower than normal. However, those generators built field faster than needed, so if it tends to stall the rotor you'll have to put a small shunt resistor on the field to lower the field current a bit.

                  Where you at? I got a WinCharger Airline Deluxe here - complete with the Zenith tube radio that came with it new. And it all still works. Mine is a Model 611 - built in 1929. A few years ago on eBay there was some 32V kitchen appliances that used to be sold for the farm 32V systems back in the late 20's and early 30's. There was a mixer with the beaters, an iron and a toaster. I bid on it but the stuff went for over $3,000. It's all collectors items today.
                  --
                  Chris
                  Last edited by ChrisOlson; December 2nd, 2012, 21:38.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                    Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                    Completly off topic, but, how does a single blade prop not throw itself to pieces? Seems line a strange idea, or am I missing something?

                    Tony
                    Please note, being a moderator does not add any weight to my opinions 300 watts Siemens/BP panels,plus a Sun 90,, making ~400. ~30 amps into Rogue MPT-3024, 450 ah of Trojan T-105, Morningstar ts300 inverter, a Tri-Metric meter.a collection of antique generators, plus 2 Honda eu-1000i's (also a BS2512 IX controller) and assorted other stuff!

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                      Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                      I answered my own question,, it looks like a large, single prop (like a conventional airplane prop) which I would describe as a two bladed prop.

                      T



                      http://www.windcharger.org/Wind_Charger/Wincharger.html
                      Please note, being a moderator does not add any weight to my opinions 300 watts Siemens/BP panels,plus a Sun 90,, making ~400. ~30 amps into Rogue MPT-3024, 450 ah of Trojan T-105, Morningstar ts300 inverter, a Tri-Metric meter.a collection of antique generators, plus 2 Honda eu-1000i's (also a BS2512 IX controller) and assorted other stuff!

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                        Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                        It's a two-blade prop with a drag-type governor. The airfoils were GOE-222. On the later 14 foot WinChargers they went to a four-blade prop made of aluminum. Two blades were lift blades and two were drag for speed control.

                        If you've never heard the air brakes come on on a Wincharger it will make you jump. They run VERY fast and when the brakes come on it sounds like a machine gun firing.
                        --
                        Chris

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                          Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                          Right now I live in Duluth, am in the process of buying a farm outside of Mahtowa, MN, where I want to install the wind plant. The propeller I had was actually one piece of wood but two blades. I bought a home made 3 bladed hub that feathers in high wind, that I plan to use. Good info about the classic and field coils. So do you think it would be okay to run this in tandem with a 24 volt solar panel with a simple charge controller maybe?
                          Originally posted by ChrisOlson View Post
                          You have a WinCharger Giant with the 11' prop and 1:6 geared generator. That will NOT work with a Classic controller because it is wound field with a self-exciting shunt generator and will run at way too high of voltage and burn the field out. It should work fine on 24V because the old 32V telco banks used to run in the high 20's when they were discharged. I won't be able to bring the generator in from the field until spring (rotator cuff surgery, and snow, and slow closing on my farm). I'm going crazy sitting here not being able to do anythng but recover from surgery. so I'm trying to get my ducks in a row for when spring comes.
                          David J

                          The field in the generator is excited by the generator's output. So if the output is "clamped" lower than 32V the field current will also be lower than normal. However, those generators built field faster than needed, so if it tends to stall the rotor you'll have to put a small shunt resistor on the field to lower the field current a bit.

                          Where you at? I got a WinCharger Airline Deluxe here - complete with the Zenith tube radio that came with it new. And it all still works. Mine is a Model 611 - built in 1929. A few years ago on eBay there was some 32V kitchen appliances that used to be sold for the farm 32V systems back in the late 20's and early 30's. There was a mixer with the beaters, an iron and a toaster. I bid on it but the stuff went for over $3,000. It's all collectors items today.
                          --
                          Chris

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                            Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                            Actually single bladed propellers for aircraft are not unheard of...

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-blade_propeller

                            -Bill
                            20x BP 4175B panels (replacement) + Xantrex GT 3.3 inverter for 3kW Grid Tied system + Honda eu2000i Inverter/Generator for emergency backup.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                              Re: 32volt wincharger, 24v batteries?

                              D@#$%!^! Wish I hadn't lost my 32v motor inverter, and my 32 1/2hp motor. I do have a 32 volt Delco(?) kerosene powered back up generator. It would be great to have on of those refigerators.
                              I also have a 6volt Wincharger radio charger with stubb tower and paddle brake and control panel. If I can find it that is.
                              Never had it up, have to make a blade for it. Anybody have a templet for a 6' long double blade? David J
                              Originally posted by weedtreehugger View Post
                              Right now I live in Duluth, am in the process of buying a farm outside of Mahtowa, MN, where I want to install the wind plant. The propeller I had was actually one piece of wood but two blades. I bought a home made 3 bladed hub that feathers in high wind, that I plan to use. Good info about the classic and field coils. So do you think it would be okay to run this in tandem with a 24 volt solar panel with a simple charge controller maybe?

                              Comment

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