small generator questions

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
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    Re: small generator questions

    One neat thing to add--The small Honda's use a fuel pump. So folks setup an extra fuel cap with a hose barb from the hardware store (epoxied in to hold barb) that can connect to a plastic hose (weighted in, perhaps a fuel filter) that can be dropped in a 5 gallon gas can. Fill the genset gas tank up, run the engine, and it will pull fuel from the gas can through the plastic hose.

    Get day(s) of runtime without having to refuel (obviously, check oil use before long term running).

    There is a low oil shutdown--but I would prefer not to test it.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Mangas
    Mangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    Before I built my ranch house and Off Grid System, For five years, I ran the old small ranch house exclusively on eu1000s' and then eu2000s'. I went through several of them.

    I religously changed the oil, washed/oiled the foam air cleaner, replaced the spark plug every 100 hours and cleaned out the arrestor. I ran the little gennys 5+ hours a day, and replaced them every year and half or so if they started to burn oil. I think that translates into about 2,000 to 2,500 hours. We tried to rebuild one but it didn't work.

    When they did get some age on them, they would shut down periodically when the oil got low. Dumped some more in and let er buck. Usually, when mine started burning oil it was time for a new one.

    They are cheap to maintain, highly dependable, quiet, use hardly any fuel and run with a two stage power output depending on the load. I highly recommend them to off gridders trying to get a foothold. A very cheap source of reliable power.

    If you use them exclusively keep a box of plugs on hand, extra foam air cleaner and a few mainifold gaskets.
    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF Custom House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions
    Can two generators run 240v in phase ? Won't that pop the breaker on one or the other ?

    maybe

    You need a generator that has a SYNC connection for another gen. Then you would have to make up a cable, and then test it. The sync connection may just be DC power for the internal inverter.

    Or use a transformer to get 240V
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    i am wondering what oil they take, regular or synthetic as synthetic would make it last longer i think.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    I run Castrol 10w30 in mine. Since I keep the genny in heated space, it isn't a problem with cold. If not I would run 0w or 5w in the winter.

    I have changed to synthetic in cars, but I haven't made the switch in the little engines.


    Tony
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    they make 10w30 synthetic although it's not as common. i can see using standard oil to break the engine in, but afterward i believe synthetic would help greatly. i'm not one who likes the blend of both types, but that's an option too.
  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions
    hey dwh check this out:

    auxbatgra.gif

    what do you make of that in regards to altenator charging multiple isolated batteries?

    Looks about like the setup on my truck. Mine has a sort of "charge lamp" as well. I don't think it's exactly the same though - the charge light on mine is on when the alternator is putting out (when the coil in the relay is energized), and off otherwise.

    That's just from casual observation - I haven't bothered to trace out the wiring on mine because I'm planning to re-work it later and it's working so why bother.
  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions
    niel wrote: »
    they make 10w30 synthetic although it's not as common. i can see using standard oil to break the engine in, but afterward i believe synthetic would help greatly. i'm not one who likes the blend of both types, but that's an option too.


    That's pretty much SOP for a lot of people's posts I've seen on the net. Break-in with regular and then switch to synthetic.
  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions
    BB. wrote: »
    One neat thing to add--The small Honda's use a fuel pump. So folks setup an extra fuel cap with a hose barb from the hardware store (epoxied in to hold barb) that can connect to a plastic hose (weighted in, perhaps a fuel filter) that can be dropped in a 5 gallon gas can. Fill the genset gas tank up, run the engine, and it will pull fuel from the gas can through the plastic hose.

    Get day(s) of runtime without having to refuel (obviously, check oil use before long term running).

    There is a low oil shutdown--but I would prefer not to test it.

    -Bill

    My Honeywell has a fuel pump as well. However, setting up the aux fuel supply isn't as simple as the Hondas as it appears that the tank is vented to a charcoal canister for CARB compliance.

    I believe the HW1000i doesn't have that problem, as it shows a fuel cap with a vent that must be opened when you want to run the generator.

    It's not much of an issue for me, so I haven't bothered to try to find a workaround yet.
  • notsobright
    notsobright Solar Expert Posts: 247 ✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    intresting about the fuel pump and its advantages.


    Mangas wrote: »
    Before I built my ranch house and Off Grid System, For five years, I ran the old small ranch house exclusively on eu1000s' and then eu2000s'. I went through several of them.

    I religously changed the oil, washed/oiled the foam air cleaner, replaced the spark plug every 100 hours and cleaned out the arrestor. I ran the little gennys 5+ hours a day, and replaced them every year and half or so if they started to burn oil. I think that translates into about 2,000 to 2,500 hours. We tried to rebuild one but it didn't work.

    When they did get some age on them, they would shut down periodically when the oil got low. Dumped some more in and let er buck. Usually, when mine started burning oil it was time for a new one.

    They are cheap to maintain, highly dependable, quiet, use hardly any fuel and run with a two stage power output depending on the load. I highly recommend them to off gridders trying to get a foothold. A very cheap source of reliable power.

    If you use them exclusively keep a box of plugs on hand, extra foam air cleaner and a few mainifold gaskets.


    let me guess.. Castrol GTX is part of that religion? Im just asking really but from my experience that stuff is NASTY!

    I wonder if the Honda Generators use nikosil lined cylinder walls like in the motorbikes? doesnt sound like it from your experiences.



    I have a few lifelong customers who insist on Castrol GTX and Ive seen what the insides of these engines look like after +50k of normal use and regular change intervals.

    what Ive seen is way higher than normal sludge/crust build up and it also tends to dye everything an almost orange color. I dont know this as a fact but I belive that stuff is recycled and made from reclaimed used engine oil.


    about synthetics, specifically Mobil-1, I own a 1985 GMC truck I bought from the original owner who is also a friend Ive know since before he bought it.

    he started using Mobil-1 full synthetic at the first oil change and continued for the next 4 years. I bought it in 1990 and hadnt used synthetics before but since thats what it allways had I continued to use it.

    now that the truck is aproaching half of a million miles with the original engine I am a firm beliver in the stuff (Mobil-1)

    I have also learned it it not good to start using it in older cars (or other synthetic oils) that have real rubber seals instead of the modern neoprene seals. it tend to harden these older rubber seals quickly. Ive notice previously leak free engine start to leak oil shortly after switching to Mobil-1 synthetic.


    I gonna re-read this thread.. lots of good info and I want to make sure I havnt missed anything.

    thanks
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    I have sort of always felt that oil is oil assuming you by a reasonable brand. I have just always used Castrol. Good service in Air cooled VW/Porsches. Had good service in stationary engines etc. I have moved to Mobil one in newer vehicles, mostly because you get a bit better fuel mileage.

    Tony

    PS I've never had an engine failure with Castrol, on the other hand I have only had a couple of engines fail in a big way.
  • Mangas
    Mangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    Yep, I used Castrol 10w 30w GTX and NGK plugs exculsively. As posted, need to keep that spark arrestor cannister clean.

    When we tried to rebuild the motor, we installed new rings and bearings. Ran fine for about 100 hours and then started burning oil again. Of course the little genny had over 2500 hours on it!

    Don't know if they use Nikasil bores. I know German OEMs' use Nikasil.

    Costwise, might well buy a new one. These little guys are bullet proof and can't recommend them highly enough.
    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF Custom House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
  • notsobright
    notsobright Solar Expert Posts: 247 ✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    a noticed a Honda 2000iu sitting in a friends garage so I asked to look at it.

    it has a 12v outlet, I asked him if he has the maunal for it and he did. it just says it is 8A output and unregulated

    I wonder if the ac inverter is allways on when its running or if using the 12vdc output to charge on its own would be useful?


    he started it up, it IS real quiet! my 12vdc air compressor is much louder than this generator.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
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    Re: small generator questions

    The 12 volt output (if I recall correctly) only works properly when the ECO Throttle is turned off (engine running at high speed). If you need a little bit of charging current (such as for a car battery)--can be useful. But not very fuel efficient or very much current (14 volts * 8 amps = 112 watts or so).

    But, if you need to charge a big battery bank--a true 120 VAC to DC battery charger would be much better.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    Bill is right - the 12V output only meets rating at full speed. It will put *something* out when idled down, but voltage and current aren't maintained.

    You can get far more power by using an AC charger, even with the engine idled down!

    Not to mention, at least for the Hondas at the time I bought mine, they charge extra for the 12V cable... :roll:
  • notsobright
    notsobright Solar Expert Posts: 247 ✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    good to know. I also noticed in the 2000iu maintenance schedule that valve lashes should be checked every 200 hours. it gives the specs for the lash settings but only refers to official service centers for checking and adjustment.

    for those who cant or dont want to DIY its still very important.

    out of spec lashes can definately lead to premature wear and failures ussually from excessive heat.

    worth mentioning.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    You are probably right, but every Honda engine I have ever owned calling for adjusting the valves, and I don't think I have EVER done it! It is doesn't even cross my radar of things I should do. I have never had a failure however in any Honda engine.

    I'm not even sure I know how to it. The GX series engines were flat head, and there is a engine series (homeowners duty) with overhead cams and chain. I think that the Eu are built that way, but I have never had one apart to find out.

    Tony
  • notsobright
    notsobright Solar Expert Posts: 247 ✭✭
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    Re: small generator questions

    I now have a brand new EU2000i

    I stopped counting how many Hondas Ive owned over the years but this is the first one that doesnt self propel ;-)

    Ive never had a significant engine failure on a Honda either Icarus and I have countless hours/miles on them. but then they allways have had plenty of normal and prevenative maintenance too.

    I once had a secondary rocker arm shaft back out of and RFVC OHC cylinder head when I was miles away from anywhere on a trail in the mountains and my tool kit didnt include the correct allen key to re-tighten it. one of my more difficult rides home since I had to hold the shaft in with my (gloved) left hand while navigating some serious hillclimb/decents!

    the 2000i is indeed overhead cam. I'll keep a check on the valve lash at every 5th oil change. from experince with these types of engines they do tend to tighten up slightly overtime (normal wear)

    my break-in proceedure for this one was to run it with whatever oil the dealer had used innitially for 10min with no load (first heat cycle) and then drail the oil and refiled with the Honda recomended oil (SJ API Rating, kinda hard to find since generally the SJ rating is for diesel engines)

    second run was for an hour or so with out eco switch engaged and with a load while loading and unloading it with a substantial load (1500w heatgun) so as to get the engine. this helps pressurize the cylidner and seat the piston rings.

    after this I drained and refilled the oil again. I will drain it again right after next use and refill /switch to Rotella synthetic.

    I never follow recomended break-in proceedures, I have an extensive background in engine R&D and experince tells me to remove initial break in oil (contaminated) ASAP! and also to not hod anything back durring break-in. I allways break-in new engines the way they will be used.

    this may sound like crazy advice but I can assure from experience developing both the Arrora, NorthStar and many other egines for GM. in the development stages when we ran them on the Dynos the first thing we allways do, prime the oil pressure with an external pump.

    then start the engine and ran it at ~2500-3500 rev until oil and water temps stabilized then make a couple of pulls to make sure nothing is loose or obviously wrong then went right into full-on race simulations (Full revs) in less than 10 minutes from initial start-up.


    break-in is critical! and never use synthetic oil for break in either BTW

    here's more on the subject for those intrested:

    http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm


    I cant offer much in way of solar related experience and have gained lots of wisdom here so this long winded post I try to return favor for all the great advice and help many here have provided me. Thanks