Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

stereoman405
stereoman405 Solar Expert Posts: 56 ✭✭✭✭
I get confused once you start getting into "power factor corrected" math on inverters. :blush:

Could a Honda eu2000i handle being the 'DC source' for a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

My thought is to use the Prosine 2.0 hooked up to grid power to keep my batteries floating and then when the grid goes down I could hook my Honda up to the DC input side to handle battery charging. Seems like it would be nice to get my charger and inverter in the same unit.

It seems like if the Prosine can pull 100A @ 12v to charge the batts then my genny should handle it right? I'll attempt the math here just to prove I'm trying.


Honda EU2000i

Rated voltage=120V
Rated frequency=60Hz
Rated current=13.3A
Rated output=1.6kVA
Maximum output=2.0kVA

So assuming the Prosine 2.0's 99% AC Power Factor and 81% efficiency:
  • 120 volts * 13.3 amps * 0.99 * 0.81 = 1,280 watts into the battery bank

So, for the Prosine to output 100A @ 14.4v bulk charging...
  • 100A * 14.4 = 1440 watts (efficiency loss already factored in above)

So it looks like I'm 160 watts from this working on paper, except we were assuming the Honda's rated output, not the max. Would this give me some wiggle room especially when you add the input form the panels into the mix?

Comments

  • trkarl
    trkarl Solar Expert Posts: 33
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

    My prosine 2.0 runs fine off my eu2000i. You have to program the prosine and you don't have to make it charge with 100 amps if you don't want it to. You don't want to charge with 100 amps on a small bank anyways.

    Just get a heavy duty cord and put a plug on one end and wire the other end into the Prosine. That way you can plug it into an outlet or plug it into the eu2000 when the power is out. That is what I did.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

    Steroman405,

    Your math is fine. Also, the Honda is rated at 2,000 watts peak--so it can carry the charger along for awhile.

    Put a kill-a-watt meter on the Pro-Sine and see how much current it really draws while charging... If it is a small bank that is not deeply discharged--you probably are not drawing maximum amperage anyway.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RWB
    RWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

    How long can that Honda 2000i run at 1800w on a full tank?

    What is a full tank on that thing?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

    From the spec. sheet

    1.1 gallon tank
    4 hours at 1,600 watts
    15 hours at 400 watts (ECO throttle ON)

    One of the "interesting" things you can do with an eu2000i (and probably other eu models) is to buy a new fuel cap and put a hose barb and 4' of fuel hose on it (plus weighted end). Drop the weighted end in a 5 gallon gas can (and the 1.1 gallon tank near full)--and the internal fuel pump in the Honda will draw enough vacuum to pull fuel into the main tank... Now you have an extended run fuel tank. (protect against fuel leaks, siphon if hose breaks, etc.).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • RWB
    RWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?
    BB. wrote: »
    From the spec. sheet

    1.1 gallon tank
    4 hours at 1,600 watts
    15 hours at 400 watts (ECO throttle ON)

    One of the "interesting" things you can do with an eu2000i (and probably other eu models) is to buy a new fuel cap and put a hose barb and 4' of fuel hose on it (plus weighted end). Drop the weighted end in a 5 gallon gas can (and the 1.1 gallon tank near full)--and the internal fuel pump in the Honda will draw enough vacuum to pull fuel into the main tank... Now you have an extended run fuel tank. (protect against fuel leaks, siphon if hose breaks, etc.).

    -Bill

    Now that is very very interesting to me Bill. Really I've been wondering how to easily and safely add on a larger fuel tank to these generator small Honda Generators.

    How did you come across doing this? Any pictures? Any official directions on how to do this correctly? Is there any ready made kits to do this?

    It would sure beat having to refill the tank all the time if you were to want to run the generator for a few days straight.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

    Here is one vendor of tank kits (Honda eu2000i, eu1000i, Yamaha EF1000isc, and a couple Robin brand units too):

    www.wisesales.com/DurationTanks.html

    DYI project (barb to fuel cap seal needs to be solid and air/fuel tight):

    http://members.cox.net/ccandies/Hondas.htm

    Obviously, keeping an eye on the oil level is important (they do have low oil shutdown--but I am not sure I would want to trust that for long engine life).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • stereoman405
    stereoman405 Solar Expert Posts: 56 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?
    trkarl wrote: »
    My prosine 2.0 runs fine off my eu2000i. You have to program the prosine and you don't have to make it charge with 100 amps if you don't want it to. You don't want to charge with 100 amps on a small bank anyways.

    Just get a heavy duty cord and put a plug on one end and wire the other end into the Prosine. That way you can plug it into an outlet or plug it into the eu2000 when the power is out. That is what I did.

    Interesting. So you have the ability to actually set the 'ceiling' on the bulk and absorption charge cycles? My bank will end up between 700ah - 1500ah @12v when all is said and done so its nice to know I can tweak the Prosine to do what I want.

    Curious, how inefficient is it to run a 2k pure sine inverter at 15% - 50% load? I know I'll be pushing my capabilities at around 1200w due to staying 12v but I'm wondering it its a big power waist to under utilize an inverter.

    PS - For extended run time you could also do a propane / natural gas / gaoline tri fule conversion for $200. That way you could plug it into a 25gal LP tank and run for days. Easier long term fuel storage as well.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

    I think we may have missed a bit of necessary info here. Just to be safe, the Honda can not be the 12V source for an inverter: its 12V output is limited to 8 Amps. Nor should any inverter be run off a DC supply other than a battery; the current requirements can be very large indeed.

    As a 12VDC charging source, the little Honda isn't very good. You can get more efficient charging using its 120VAC output and a good battery charger.

    (Posted just for clarification.)
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

    From the Pro-Sine manual (PDF)--you can set the charger current/profile--And you can also set the maximum input AC current (breaker rating). I believe it will share the charging current and pass-through current to loads to meet the input limits:
    Since the charging current limit of the PROsine may be configured all the way down to 0A it is possible to use very small generators with the PROsine to charge batteries. Xantrex has operated the PROsine from a generator as small as 700W.

    To do this, configure the "AC Breaker Size" (found in Configure PROsine —
    Basic Menu on page4–7) to a current rating compatible with the generator size.

    For example, 6A should work well with a 700W generator, 8A should work with a 1000W generator - experiment to find the largest setting that the generator can accommodate. To operate the PROsine at the full 100A charging current rating Xantrex recommends a 2kW generator or larger and a breaker size setting of 20A.
    ...
    Automatically reduce charger current as internal temperature exceeds 80°C, input Vac approaches low transfer, and ac input current approaches 80% of breaker setting.
    Xantrex has some really nice inverter/charger products. I hope they get their variable availability fixed.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • stereoman405
    stereoman405 Solar Expert Posts: 56 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

    Awesome. Good info. Its a little more money for the unit than what I would spend for a charger and 1k pure sine inverter, but have the flexibility and control sure would be nice.

    Cariboocoot - Thanks for the clarification. BB set me straight on that a few weeks ago. Always good to revisit though for newbs such as myself.
  • RWB
    RWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?
    Interesting. So you have the ability to actually set the 'ceiling' on the bulk and absorption charge cycles? My bank will end up between 700ah - 1500ah @12v when all is said and done so its nice to know I can tweak the Prosine to do what I want.

    Curious, how inefficient is it to run a 2k pure sine inverter at 15% - 50% load? I know I'll be pushing my capabilities at around 1200w due to staying 12v but I'm wondering it its a big power waist to under utilize an inverter.

    PS - For extended run time you could also do a propane / natural gas / gaoline tri fule conversion for $200. That way you could plug it into a 25gal LP tank and run for days. Easier long term fuel storage as well.

    Does anybody know how long its rated to run off a 25Gal LP Tank? I agree its a much better way to store fuel.
  • myocardia
    myocardia Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?
    Awesome. Good info. Its a little more money for the unit than what I would spend for a charger and 1k pure sine inverter, but have the flexibility and control sure would be nice.

    stereoman, read the top of this page again: http://store.solar-electric.com/xaprsiwain.html Neither the 1,000 or the 1,800 watt Prosines have a charger.
    DoD= depth of discharge= amount removed from that battery   SoC= state of charge= amount remaining in that battery
    So, 0% DoD= 100% SoC, 25% DoD= 75% SoC, 50% DoD= 50% SoC, 75% DoD= 25% SoC, 100% DoD= 0% SoC
    A/C= air conditioning AC= alternating current (what comes from the outlets in your home) DC= direct current (what batteries & solar panels use)
  • myocardia
    myocardia Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?
    RWB wrote: »
    Does anybody know how long its rated to run off a 25Gal LP Tank? I agree its a much better way to store fuel.

    Since Propane has almost exactly half the energy density as gasoline, you get roughly half the MPG or half the run time as you would with gasoline.
    DoD= depth of discharge= amount removed from that battery   SoC= state of charge= amount remaining in that battery
    So, 0% DoD= 100% SoC, 25% DoD= 75% SoC, 50% DoD= 50% SoC, 75% DoD= 25% SoC, 100% DoD= 0% SoC
    A/C= air conditioning AC= alternating current (what comes from the outlets in your home) DC= direct current (what batteries & solar panels use)
  • stereoman405
    stereoman405 Solar Expert Posts: 56 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?
    myocardia wrote: »
    stereoman, read the top of this page again: http://store.solar-electric.com/xaprsiwain.html Neither the 1,000 or the 1,800 watt Prosines have a charger.

    I was looking at the Prosine 2.0.

    http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/41/p/1/pt/8/product.asp

    You're right the 1000 and 1800 don't have charging capability.
  • RWB
    RWB Solar Expert Posts: 168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?

    Thanks for the info.

    There are ProSine Versions that have the Charger Built In also. You can find it under inverter/charger product section at their site.
  • stereoman405
    stereoman405 Solar Expert Posts: 56 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can Honda EU2000i handle a Xantrex Prosine 2.0?
    RWB wrote: »
    Does anybody know how long its rated to run off a 25Gal LP Tank? I agree its a much better way to store fuel.

    This site give good info on fuel consumption at various loads. Its teh brand I put on mine.

    http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Honda-EU2000i-Tri-fuel.asp?page=EU2000i_Tri_Fuel