My batteries just arrived!

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czyhorse
czyhorse Solar Expert Posts: 42 ✭✭
I'm excited today since my Rolls 6cs17ps batteries are in...

As a bonus, my dealer threw in three nice 4 aught welding cable jumpers along w/ stainless steel bolts & washers.

I've checked the voltage on them already and each 6v battery is reading at 6.31V. If I'm reading my tables correctly, this translates into a full charge, correct?
I'm looking at the Rolls webpage here for guidance:
http://www.rollsbattery.com/content/renewable-energy-bulletins-solar-wind?q=node/51&phpMyAdmin=2eda4dec0bd69647b9e3cf0f71e01d23&phpMyAdmin=9dec4a269d70t7a63be7c

One thing that I am initially concerned about is the electrolyte level. I have checked every cell visually and it looks like the fluid level is well below the recommended 1/4" below vent well tube. Should I add distilled water before charging? The Rolls FAQ instructs you not to add any water before the first charge. Any thoughts?

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    Do not add water before charging a battery unless the electrolyte is below the plate level (i.e. not visible).

    It should be 1/4" or more above the plates. Generally they put the right amount in them when new, but if they've been sitting around a warehouse ...

    Is the level consistent throughout the cells? That is what is most important: same levels, same SG, same Voltages to begin with. Record that info for future reference. All subsequent readings are relative to the initial ones.

    Otherwise, fully charge & EQ if necessary before using. Remember that batteries need a few cycles before they're fully functional.

    I like to see electrolyte level just to the bottom of the fill tube, so that the vent slits are still exposed but you have maximum fluid capacity. But that isn't the factory spec on all batteries.
  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    Cool. I am pretty sure Rolls/surette supplys the battery cables
  • blackswan555
    blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    From Rolls
    When a bank is first put into service the electrolyte levels and specific gravities should be check and recorded. As a battery is charged, water is electrolyzed into hydrogen and oxygen gas. Original electrolyte levels should be noted and replacement water should be added back to this level.
    The battery bank should be placed on a bulk / absorption charge and voltage settings should be set at the maximum level of the above table. (15/30/60v) This voltage should be held for 6 hours and final current, if monitored, should be 2% of the 20 hour capacity rating. If not the bulk / absorption charge should be continued.

    And to put that onto practice (well at least how I do it)
    Install batteries remembering to fit temp sensor before bat leads, gently break silicon round poles and lift off lid, re-seal after, (fit temp sens halfway down on INTERNAL bat casing, where if you live in a hot climate the warmest place, cold , the coldest)
    Only if seriously low, add water,
    Commence charge @ rolls V`s, After about 3 hours check battery temp`s if they are nice and warm, add water to approx 5 mm below black tube, What I am looking for finally is warm batteries ( electrolyte/internals expand when warm) all to the same level, that I can use for a reference point in the future, Give them another hours charge to mix, Then check & record SG`s & temps of all cells, The amps drawn should be coming down, If it starts to go back up, you need to back off your charge voltage to temp compensate, The more charged the more slowly, I do not go by Rolls on the 2% end of charge, I have found they go well below that, I prefer to use SG`s at this point, ( bat`s need 50>75 ish cycles to "Run in" end of charge amps will shift more until then) another hour check SG`s & temp`s , record, It helps if you use a spreadsheet type method to record, you want to be able to compare the numbers side by side, Another hour, Sg`s & temps,
    What you are looking for across the three time readings;
    The temps should all be similar and resonably stable in relation to each other, one rising fast points to a problem cell, If you get to 45c, shut down and rest bank,
    SG`s, If more charge required the SG`s will still be rising in numbers as a whole bank or in relation to each other, repeat in an hour,
    The final point you are looking for is when the numbers stop rising (you may even see them start to fall as temp increases) as a whole and in relation to each other, Note you water levels, which with a bit of luck will all be spot on the bottom of the tube, :roll: ( if not close enough, add water and give them anther hr to stir) Re-Set voltages to preferred, tidy up and go for a pint :D
    A month ish later EQ to roll`s instructions, You can cross reference the results from the EQ to your initial results "just to make sure"nothing nasty is happening, The SG number is not that important, It is what they are doing in relation to each other and over time, A month later EQ, As you hit their "end of run in period" 70 ish cycles, you will notice an increase in performance after EQ, This is also a good time to get as close as poss to your original conditions, temp / level/ all SG`s stable for a future reference point and record end of charge amps,
    I then EQ when I see around a 10 point shift in SG`s relative to each other (between 1>3 months Max)
    Keep em watered, Charge em properly,Use a temp sensor, 50% DOD & service them, They should last 3500 cycle`s +

    Have a good one
    Tim


    The cables & SS nut`s bolts & washers are Rolls supplied FOC :D
  • czyhorse
    czyhorse Solar Expert Posts: 42 ✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    From Rolls website they recommend charging between 2.33 and 2.36 V per cell. They also recommend a float charge of 2.17V

    I have an Iota DLS 27-40 charger w/ IQ Smart Charger attachment that says it charges at the following rates:

    Bulk - 2.46 v
    Absorption - 2.36 V
    Float - 2.26 V

    Is it alright to use the Iota for my initial charging of the battery bank? Will these higher voltages cause any harm to the batteries?
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!
    czyhorse wrote: »
    From Rolls website they recommend charging between 2.33 and 2.36 V per cell. They also recommend a float charge of 2.17V

    I have an Iota DLS 27-40 charger w/ IQ Smart Charger attachment that says it charges at the following rates:

    Bulk - 2.46 v
    Absorption - 2.36 V
    Float - 2.26 V

    Is it alright to use the Iota for my initial charging of the battery bank? Will these higher voltages cause any harm to the batteries?

    Yes.
    No.
    :D

    FLA's have a lot of 'tolerance'.
  • blackswan555
    blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    From Rolls Bulletin 614, PM, Charging and Discharging Batteries;
    Min Mean Max
    Absorption / Bulk 2.40 – 2.45 - 2.50 per cell
    Equalization 2.58 - 2.63 - 2.67
    Float 2.20- 2.22 - 2.23

    What voltage is your system?

    Tim
  • czyhorse
    czyhorse Solar Expert Posts: 42 ✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    My system is 24V...
  • blackswan555
    blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    You are on the lower end of recommended charge current 5 > 13 % of 20hr rate, so it will take a while to get through bulk with (I am presuming) 40a charge,nbut should get there,
    If you do not have them , I would strongly recommend installing temp sensor`s on all charge sources.

    Have a good one
    Tim
  • czyhorse
    czyhorse Solar Expert Posts: 42 ✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    I have a battery temperature sensor for my Outback FM60 charge controller, but I do not see how I would use a temp sensor for the Iota battery charger. Since the Iota doesn't have a variable voltage setting, what good would the battery sensor be?
  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    the iota charger will not tempature compensate.
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: My batteries just arrived!

    Hi czyhorse,

    Fine on those Rolls batteries.

    Will add my 3c. In working with three sets of Surrette 4KS25s. The incoming water levels varied quite a lot, AND there was a lot of acid on the battery cases, on the film wrap and many dark brown spots on the pallets. Plus, there was a very strong aroma of acid. These were drop-shipped from NS to CA via Roadway Freight. Each case was the same -- strong indications of quite a lot of acid escaped in transit, and indications of A VERY ROUGH RIDE.

    In speaking with Surrette they counciled that in this speicfic case it was OK to add 1.265 electrolyte to the lowest cells, Charge + EQ, and place in service.

    On one of the battery pallets, the batteries had slid off the center of the pallet by a few inches.

    If, in your case, there was indication that perhaps some of the acid was spilled (or levitated) from the cells, adding electrolyte would not be totally out of the question, but think in your case, a dealer received the shipment, and has made a judgment on this.

    AND I would never add Electrolyte to any battery without advice from the manufacturer. Just my personal experience. Good luck with the new batteries. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.