Brainstorming

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System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Hello everyone! I'm new the the forum and I need help!

I have been trying to find some research on my problem, and found some hints, but really can't get the info I need. Maybe there is someone out there that can give me some ideas.

Here is my situation:

I just bought some land that does not have electricity or water. However, there is a creek that is approx. 800ft downhill (maybe less) from where we are at.

My brother an I are going to build a cabin so we can hunt and camp.

What would be the easiest and most cost effective way to pump water from this creek to the top of the hill?

I was thinking something along the lines of some type of wind generated pump to the top of the hill to fill a filtered drum. A water hose would be enough to supply the water that we need, however how should we do this?

I've got the lighting figured out with LED's and solar panels, etc. Of course, we aren't needing a lot of power, so I wasn't looking at getting a bunch of panels.

Can anyone give me some suggestions?

We are looking for a cost effective way to do this, however I do know it will cost some to get it up and running.

Thank you all for any suggestions that you might be able to give me!
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  • Slappy
    Slappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Brainstorming

    how about some thing like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG18tDWLxk0
    it can be modified to your liking. then again, what is your flow rate of the creek and how far up hill does it need to pump? Big paddle wheel, maybe gear reduction, and small bore pump. just an idea ;) . you mentioned 800 ft or less, but what will the height be above the creek if you draw a straight horizontal line?
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Brainstorming

    There are some solar pumps, lo rate, but 800' lift is a LOT
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Brainstorming

    First question,, is the 800' a vertical lift, or the total distance?

    If the latter, what is the lift?

    Second, does the creek flow with some volume? If so, consider a hydraulic ram:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_ram

    A ram will use the force of the water to pump the water up the pipe. A very tried and true method to move water up hill, as long as there is sufficient flow. Low tech, simple parts, no batteries, no wiring.


    Moves small amount of water, but works 24/7 regardless of sun or wind, as long as water is moving in the creek

    Tony
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Brainstorming

    For a hunting cabin - A bucket is the most practical! Anything else will cost an arm and a leg!
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #6
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    Re: Brainstorming
    icarus wrote: »
    First question,, is the 800' a vertical lift, or the total distance?

    If the latter, what is the lift?

    Second, does the creek flow with some volume? If so, consider a hydraulic ram:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_ram

    A ram will use the force of the water to pump the water up the pipe. A very tried and true method to move water up hill, as long as there is sufficient flow. Low tech, simple parts, no batteries, no wiring.


    Moves small amount of water, but works 24/7 regardless of sun or wind, as long as water is moving in the creek

    Tony

    The creek itself is one of those that is very slight in force, but can have a big force if flooded.

    We are talking 300 to 600 ft lift in a standard water hose.

    It is one of those creeks that is running on top of a sheet of rock .... very clean, but at the deepest 4 inches.I do have a slot that will be the deep part where two slabs of rock come together... its like 9 inches deep
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  • peakbagger
    peakbagger Solar Expert Posts: 341 ✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Brainstorming

    If the elevation difference is truly 800 feet vertical, A small volume PV powered positive displacement pump will work but realize that 800 feet vertical is 350 PSI, therefore the cost for the pipe and fittings are going to be steep. The pump would run whenever the sun is out and then discharge into a large storage tank adjacent to where you want water. If you install the head tank high enough, you can gravity supply, otherwise you woudl need a booster pump.

    This is not going to be inexpensive, there is a lot to be said for hauling in water!
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Brainstorming

    Its 800ft away from where the cabin is to be built, not elevation change, the description of the stream is 4" deep and low flow.

    You looking at either a powered solution or hand buckets
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Brainstorming

    Yes a powered 240VAC pump/generator down at the creek site will be the cheapest way to go short of the bucket. From a similar system about an hour of run time will get 300 gallons with an 8KW generator.

    Is there rainwater......................
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Brainstorming

    There are multiple stage portable gasoline pumps that will pump that high and that far. Wajax fire fighting comes to mind. Wajax will pump a mile horizontally at ~10% grade and still deliver enough pressure to fight a fire (Numbers from memory however!). Get a holding tank big enough for a couple of days, elevate it over the cabin and use gravity. If you need pressure, add a 12vdc pressure pump for showers etc.

    Tony

    Only quick link I could find :http://www.westerntruckexchange.com/Wajax%20Mark3.htm
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Brainstorming

    You might consider collecting Rain water from the roof, filtering it and gravity feedinng it into a tank. This, of course depends upon rainfall etc. But would allow you to pump the water with a much smaller pump, and locate the tank and pump in a more accessible spot.

    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Brainstorming

    I'm still not clear what the lift and distance are,

    Tony
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Brainstorming
    jcc2z wrote: »
    We are talking 300 to 600 ft lift in a standard water hose.


    Well, scope your site on google earth, and find out for sure, Many pumps are good for 200' of lift. A few will do 300' Very expensive ones could do 600', but as mentioned earlier, the pressure (over 300 psi at the bottom) will blow out standard steel water pipe, your garden hose won't last a second.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Brainstorming

    Look, it's a hunting cabin, you'll be driving trucks, bring in potable water and get a $20 bilge pump( http://www.amazon.com/Rule-24-Marine-360-GPH-12-Volt/dp/B000O8D8QG )and a 60 gallon plastic Drum, add a bit of hose and another drum at the cabin. Place the drum in the rafters if the cabin's well built, or dip from it if not, yet a 3rd drum would create a drip filter.

    The pump works on 12 volt stop by the creek and drop in the pump w/hose to the drum, pump water into the drum (leave the truck running!), then drop it into the drum to pump into holding drum or filter at cabin.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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