Not yet off-grid: Why?

rickeolis
rickeolis Solar Expert Posts: 110 ✭✭✭✭
Hi everyone,
I think I have enough hardware to be off-grid by now, but it's not even close. I run out of power around 9:00 PM most nights after nearly 5.5 usable hours of charging.
I have twelve 180/190 watt panels (south facing at a 45 degree fixed slope) for nearly 2200 watts, going to a FlexMax-80 MPPT controller which charges 24 Trojan T-105 batteries, that are less than 2 years old. Most, in fact, are less than a year old.
I keep my consumption down as well as I can, but typically see about 3-5 amps average at any given time.
Between the hours my batteries get too low and when the sun comes up again in the morning my SW4024 inverter charges the batteries from the grid, so they are usually full each morning. Consumption from midnight to 6AM is usually about 1 amp.
I just went from 16 to 24 batteries hoping to extend the length of time in the evening by a few hours, but they didn't give me even 5 minutes more. That tells me something is not configured right.
I have an 800 watt wind genny adding to the mix that spins up about an average of 3-4 hours in a 24 hour period too.
The entire project is working decent, because we went from electric bills of about $200 a month to about $30 lately, but I am aiming to go completely off-grid.
The thing that makes me wonder is that it typically goes under 24 volts and requires charging at about 8:30-9:00PM each night. Why didn't the new batteries help extend this a few hours longer? I checked my connection (all 2\0 cables), but everything reads OK.
Open to suggestions! Thanks.

-Rick-

Comments

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    rick,
    it sounds like it wasn't the battery capacity that was at fault, but that you may in fact need more pvs for the loads that you have. batteries can only give what is given to them and at a loss due to charging. being totally off grid may not be a good idea, but i understand and respect that you wish to do it.
  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Rick
    You've gotta know what your daily consumptions are, almost to the watt hour. Before going off grid here I read the meter every day and plotted consumption to loads. With lighting all CFL's, electronics on power bars, more and more conservation...daily loads down to 12kwh per day. Electric hot water heater replaced with propane and the daily went down to 6.5kwh/day. Our system was structured to handle that load plus the 1kwh/day for running the inverter and Bob's your uncle.

    Question: water heat? clothes drying? cooking heat source (gas or electric). The answer to these will help determine if off grid is practical.

    Good luck

    Ralph
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Ralph has it dialed,

    If you don't know your load(s) to the gnats a*# you are going to have trouble knowing how much you really draw out of your system.

    By my quick calcs, you have ~2220 watts of Pv, using a 50% net out of the inverter factor that translates to 1110 net watts, times 4 hours of good sun ( your mileage may vary!) would yield somewhere in the neighbourhood of 4.4 kwh/day to use on a perfect day.

    Get a Kill-a-watt meter to see what you are REALLY drawing. (Or a battery monitor).

    Tony

    PS. You can add as many batteries as you wish, but net/net you can only take out as much as the sun puts in every day, unless you are adding supplemental charging.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,731 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Keep in mind that living offgrid is one of the hardeset things most people will ever do. Without data or experience you are lucky you got this close. Hang in there!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Have you measured the battery electrolyte specific gravity yet? If your batteries are under 75% state of charge--don't let them sit there for more than a day or so... They will sulfate and loose capacity over time.

    If your batteries are always cycling below 50%--they will not last very long (a few years???).

    If your batteries are below 20% state of charge--get time on the genset right now. You will kill them in weeks.

    Suggestions:

    1. Measure all sources of charging (Amp*Hours per day). Is the FM-80 collecting expected amount of power (charge controller problems, miss-programmed, issues with array, etc.). The wind turbine is a wild card--Do you know how many Amp*Hours it is producing?
    2. What is your loads... The 3-5 amps was not clear to me... At 24 VDC or 120 VAC or what... Assuming worst case:

    120 VAC * 5 amps * 8 hours = 4,800 WH
    120 VAC * 1 amp * 16 hours = 1,920 WH
    ============================
    6,720 Watt*Hours per day (guessing)

    And that amount (if I am near correct) is probably a bit more than your panels can produce on a normal sunny fall day...

    3. Get a battery monitor. Will help you understand your sources and loads better--and will probably save you at least one battery bank replacement over the next 10-20 years. You can use a hydrometer to check your battery bank--but that will get old if you have to do it every day...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    I guess I should add to check check the electrolyte specific gravity and voltage of each battery in your string (under "heavy" load or charge) and make sure the they all match... It is possible that you have a shorted cell somewhere drawing down all of the rest of your batteries (one battery/cell may feel warmer than the rest).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Also consider how your batteries are wired. Are they wired such that they draw/charge equally from ALL cells, or do yo have them wired such that the cells at the first/last cell takes the bulk of the load? Refer to wiring diagrams so that each cell is equally loaded.

    I agree with Bill, that you should A get a battery monitor, and B test EVERY cell with a hydrometer to see if each cell is performing properly.

    Good luck.

    Tony
  • rickeolis
    rickeolis Solar Expert Posts: 110 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Thanks very much guys,
    Ralph: I did go to a tankless Bosch propane water heater, and yes, that was the BEST thing I have done so far. We never run out of hot water, it's just as hot as the old tank style was, and the power consumption is a fraction in comparison!
    I have also changed over to gas drying, and already had a gas stove. I'm looking to get a newer EnergyStar fridge very soon too.

    It's very hard to get a consistent reading on my power draw, I do have a KillaWatt, but things vary greatly. The kids love their game console and we only have the new 42" LCD; and when the microwave or dishwasher is running the 120v scale goes way up into the teens for amps.

    The constant things only add up to 3 amps on average (fridge, phone and Internet power packs), so it all depends on how often the washer and dryer get used, computer and TV, etc can swing things wildly from day to day. Lights are not an issue because there is about 15 CF's in the house, and rarely are more than 5 on at a time.

    The way I have my batteries strung is: 6 strings of four 6 volt batteries each joining at one point, so they do all bleed down consistently as the day goes by.
    Also, I read the individual voltages recently and they were all close to the same at around 6.7 volts. Water levels looked fine too. I guess I should get a hydrometer to look for specific gravity levels though. They don't get drained often, because they do get topped off by the grid nightly. That kicks in when the inverter senses them to be below 24 volts per string, which keeps them from getting de-charged too far.

    It does appear that having a battery monitor would help me a lot right now, that way I can get an accumulative total of amps used each day. The only thing I know is how much the FlexMax claims to have produced daily.

    The reason I want to do off-grid is because I am on a small local grid that does not have a current buyback system in place.

    -Rick-
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Use the kWhr setting on the kill-a-watt meter... Take a reading every day (at roughly the same time) for a week--and see what your highs and lows are. Usually, the average kWhr reading will be much more consistent over time and easier to predict than any particular slice in time.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • homerramirez
    homerramirez Solar Expert Posts: 102 ✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    May I suggest to consider, if you already having trouble keeping up with your loads, how you are going to keep your fridge from spoiling food if you run out of power?, do you have a back up generator?, it is o.k. to get some money back for all we have invested but, it will be better to pay $30.00 dlls. a month to the utility than have to replace spoiled food or damaged batteries because were drained to far...somebody repy to one of my threads " let's not be a penny wise and a pound fool", we have only 1300w of pv. a forklift battery (and 4 /200ah agms that I set aside to save"em from ruin it) @ 24v that will never see a full charge unless I spend another $6,500 more on panels plus another invercharger, charge controllers and again it just won't happen, ..when we go to work and kids to school we leave the fridge on solar and go back to the grid (fridge only)around 6:00 p.m. every day....

    I do not have as much pv as you do and still manage to have (with a lots of conservation ) a $42.00 dlls electric bill a month, when kids wereon summer break and the mini-split on almost all the time (24hrs. every day)$ 86.00 a month. not bad, we used to pay $300.00 + before solar and conservation.

    $30.00 dlls a month to keep your family confortable and your system runing for years is nothing. ;)

    Good luck. :cool:
  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Another vote for a battery monitor.

    I installed a Xantrex LinkPRO system. Really a straight forward installation. While I only have a small PV system so far (615 Watts on the roof), it is growing, and the LinkPRO can handle 500 Amps with the included shunt, or up to 10,000 Amps with the largest optional shunt.

    It has all kinds of slick features built-in. Besides telling you total Amps used overnight, and time remaining at present rate of use, it has built-in programmable alarms/relay. You could set it to alarm at 55%, and automatically start a remote generator at 50%, providing your generator had such capabilities. LOTS of features I won't bore you with.

    Here's the installation I did, along with sample screen shots: http://2manytoyz.com/linkpro.html

    Here's what I really wanted, how much energy I've used in a night:

    DSCN3248-t.jpg

    Sun up, system charging:

    DSCN3974-t.JPG

    One thing to keep in mind when looking at the first picture is this is the net gain into the battery bank. The shunt is looking at current in AND out at the same time. The difference is displayed.

    On the second picture, an arrow pointing in, charging. Arrow out, discharging.

    So while I like what all this display tells me, it doesn't tell me EVERYTHING. To see the actual Amp in or out at any particular moment, I still rely on a DC clamp-on ammeter:

    DSCN3970-t.JPG

    I can measure the total amps my array is supply, or the total load amps, and subtract the two, get the same number the LinkPRO is displaying.

    Neither the LinkPRO or the DC ammeter were cheap ($190 & $75 repectively), but I consider them a must on my setup to find all my gremlins.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Ok, I live off grid and don't understand why you would want to, if the local POCO (power company) is reasonable about storing electric for you. I've even lived in and around hurricane areas (Florida Gulf Coast) and electric was off for 3-4 days at the most for most areas.

    If my Hillbilly POCO didn't charge $25 a month before you buy any electric I'd let them store the electric. For me, as a minimal user, it's just cost effective.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Kamala
    Kamala Solar Expert Posts: 452 ✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Not sure what you mean...
    Photowhit wrote: »
    Ok, I live off grid and don't understand why you would want to,

    Want to what? Live on or off grid. Since you are off grid, you probably meant to say "why would anyone want to live on grid. I won't go into that.
    Photowhit wrote: »
    I'd let them store the electric.

    AFAIK, power companies only "store" energy in the form of coal, gas, hydro, i.e., fuel. I suppose they could store solar or wind energy in batteries for the consumer, (in their own private account, perhaps:roll:), but they still won't be able to deliver it when the grid "goes down." It's not a storage problem. It's distribution.

    Sorry if I misinterpreted your point.

    Craig
  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?
    Photowhit wrote: »
    I've even lived in and around hurricane areas (Florida Gulf Coast) and electric was off for 3-4 days at the most for most areas.


    You were lucky! Tiny Cat 1 Hurricane Erin in 1995 also only knocked out power for 3 days at my home.

    http://2manytoyz.com/hurricane/tree1.jpg


    Went through several others. Then in 2004, Hurricane Frances and Jeanne thumped us withing weeks of one another.

    The first storm ripped off a bunch of shingles, and I patched it with tar paper & nails (what I had on hand, tarps all sold out).

    roof-a.jpg

    Next storm came along, left my tar paper patch, and ripped off even more shingles.

    roof2.jpg

    Besides the water intrusion and damage, the area lost power for 18 days. That also meant no power at the gas stations - no gas for generators.

    This is the point where I started getting VERY interested in alt-power. I first bought an inverter type generator (Yamaha EF2400iS) as it's very thrifty on fuel (1.5 gallons per 8+ hours with 1/4 load) vs a conventional generator that would consume 8x as much of the precious fuel.

    So now I store extra fuel during hurricane season, and my 615 Watt array continues to grow as my budget allows.

    Point being, 3 days without power obviously not a major life altering event. But almost 3 weeks in 90 degree temps, no lights, no ice, no gas, no cold food, all restaurants closed, all grocery stores closed. I was one of the lucky ones, I had a motorhome and left the state, didn't return until much of it had been restored. My friends/coworkers/neighbors, suffered through it.

    I'd love to be 100% off the grid, but A/C requires too much power, but most everything else can be moved over to alt-power, which I'm in the process of doing.

    Everyone's situation is different, I wouldn't condemn anyone either way.
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Rick I'm surprised no one called you on your "dishwasher". Have you killawatted it ?
    Don't they have some hefty 'heaters' in them . .??
    They heat the water and use heat to dry the dishes. . . . 500 watt heaters ?

    Doing the dinner dishes would really eat a chunk of your days 'charge'.

    Try a day with out using that dishwasher . . . . .

    If your going down to and below 24 volts your bat bank isn't going to last very long.

    I get concerned when my bank voltage goes below 25.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?
    Kamala wrote: »
    Not sure what you mean...

    Want to what? Live on or off grid. Since you are off grid, you probably meant to say "why would anyone want to live on grid. I won't go into that.

    AFAIK, power companies only "store" energy in the form of coal, gas, hydro, i.e., fuel. I suppose they could store solar or wind energy in batteries for the consumer, (in their own private account, perhaps:roll:), but they still won't be able to deliver it when the grid "goes down." It's not a storage problem. It's distribution.

    I said what I ment, and I ment what I said!

    Unless you are faced with large cost, the "net metering" will allow the low cost and the storage of energy by reducing the demand for coal, gas, water over into the turbine, allowing the energy potental of these things to be stored and used at a later time.

    Indeed, if your worried about your carbon foot print, off grid typically DOES NOT MAKE SENSE! I use mostly Evergreen Panels which have one of the quickest energy paybacks. The Cedar line I have create the amount of energy it took to create them in @2 years.

    The problem is if your off grid all the energy isn't used, in fact most of the energy is wasted. You must have enough wattage in your array to provide for your highest usage (or have a generator back up) Then there are lots of waste involved in storring and maintaining your batteries, and a loss at the inverter in creating AC. I have some 5x the array I would need in the winter, spring and fall, I figure the energy payback on the panels is close to 10 years in my case.

    If you add in the energy and polution involved in the building and recycling batteries, you get some pretty big numbers.

    Off Grid would be reasonable if your worried about long periods of no grid sevice or like me you pay over $1 a KW for electric (OK I think I'd average right at $1 a KW for the year)

    So like I said, Why would you want to be Off Grid? If your reducing your carbon footprint, I would encourge you to to run the numbers.

    If your worried about about long periods of no grid energy, likely a generator is more cost effective.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • rickeolis
    rickeolis Solar Expert Posts: 110 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Nice, that Xantrex Link Pro looks good.
    My Inverter does a good job of telling me how much is being pushed into the house on the fly, but I really do need an accumulative meter like that.

    Hey, I'm glad I don't live in a tornado or hurricane zone and have to deal with issues like those! Thanks for the pic's!

    Jim, our dishwasher has a switch: on-off for the heater, so I taped in into the off position and my wife is fine with it! Thanks.
    Also, I've seen 24.0 volts and less too many times with my older batteries, so I'm beginning to think they might be suspect.

    -Rick-
  • creakndale
    creakndale Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Most people are under the impression that switching a dishwasher to energy saver mode disables the heating element but it's only disabled during the drying cycle which is good for energy conservation. However, the heating element remains active during the other cycles and typically can't be deactivated.

    creakndale
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?
    creakndale wrote: »
    Most people are under the impression that switching a dishwasher to energy saver mode disables the heating element but it's only disabled during the drying cycle which is good for energy conservation. However, the heating element remains active during the other cycles and typically can't be deactivated.
    creakndale

    That actually varys among brands/models. Mine, water heat is optional in 2 cycles.

    Of course, you can always pull the connector off the element, and just be sure the feed water is plenty hot.

    Personally, I've washed dishes by hand for many years, and saw the way several sets of grandparents washed dishes, and in my opinion, when my eyesight starts to go, I want a dishwasher ! I'll buy enough to last for a week, but they do come out clean
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Mike,
    Just wear your reading glasses when you do the dishes. If you're missing some things in the sink you're probably holding the mail at arms length as well:p

    Ralph
  • nigtomdaw
    nigtomdaw Solar Expert Posts: 705 ✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Living off grid as I do in a sunny warm location, yes my system is sized to be energy free on 3/4 hours of sun a day under our normal use , but that doesnt mean we have to waste the excess.



    You learn to adjust your lifestyle in the summer and good times in winter. So there are times each week (nearly every day between June October)when you have excess PV power but like farming you learn to harvest it.

    Dont do the laundry on crappy so so days as we can easily get 2/3 extra washes on free energy excess days.

    So also for Spring Cleaning extra power extra washers on the afternoon, changing bed linen bedsheets duvets ect. for free

    Ironing Clothes is something most off gridders out her stop doing apart from my missus. OK maybe cursing a bit she really loves ironing on a hot summers sunny afternoon. For Free. :-)

    Our house is fully ceramic tiled on all floors and a brush and pan is perfectly acceptable but if we have excess power then out comes the hoover for a better clean. For Free

    Sunny day excess power use the bread maker for free. Slow Cook Pot for free.
    (Wood burner Stove top in Winter for slow pot)

    DIY power tools big jobs pick the excess energy days.

    Before I get the knockers, yes we are semi retired so are very flexible, I choose when I want to work or loaf, but my wife knows very little about solar but doesnt even need to read the battery monitor on full sunny days to decide she can soak up the afternoon sun for free on domestic energy consuming chores.

    Soon we will have a small Fujitsu Air Con unit and that will only be used on days of battery full excess PV power. ie the hot sunny ones.

    A dishwasher is also on my list for off grid luxury which I can use on surplus energy days and back to the sink when there isnt any!

    There are many ways to extend the capacity of your battery bank, you just learn these bit by bit when you have lived off grid for a while.

    The secrete is in my sunny climate at least, is just a tad much more solar that your daily energy needs, has a low payback on overall system design and life style

    Payback time for me with just a tad too much solar than I need is about 4 years compared to my neighbours without enough solar or 2 years for those with no solar at all. ie Genset and batteries. After that I saving money there still spending it !

    Nigel
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?
    nigtomdaw wrote: »
    Payback time for me with just a tad too much solar than I need is about 4 years compared to my neighbours without enough solar or 2 years for those with no solar at all. ie Genset and batteries. After that I saving money there still spending it !

    I don't think you understand the "payback" I was refering to.

    The Energy Payback is based on the energy it takes to create your system' Off grid a payback of 4 years would be imposible from my perspective. as the most effiecent battery stored systems are @ 70% effiecent and you have the added energy "costs" of having to build and transport batteries.

    I've lived off grid for 6+ years, I understand load shifting and have run an AC every summer for the last 3 years. lndeed I started a thread about running a bread machine, I'll also put a 600 watt oil heater on a timer this winter and run it a bit.

    With tax credits and some very attractive state and local incentives you might well get a financial payback that quick. Just don't fool your self into thinking your doing anything for the enviroment, other than supporting emerging technologys. I do think that living "Off Grid" does allow you to look at electric in a different manner and conserve and use electicity in a more effiecent manner.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    I think that Nigel makes a great (under appreciated) point about load shifting!

    Starting from ground zero so to speak, it is ~ 20% more efficient to power a load directly from the Pv rather than powering the same load from the battery, even though the load is the same. Right off the bat you get ~20% savings. So for example we try to pump our water after the sun is fully up as the 9 amp draw is our biggest single draw. Now in the event that the tank needs more water when the sun isn't out fine, but by pulling the breaker after supper dishes or evening shower saves on p6ump cycle that we can do in the morning. ( even at 30 psi there is lots of water in the tank for coffee, washing etc.)

    Next we run our lap tops and the satellite modem off and on all day, but we plug the lap tops in (if we can) only after the charge controller has gone to absorb, and there are excess amps to use. I also take that opportunity to charge the drill/saw batteries, Ipods etc, using what would otherwise be "wasted" Pv energy.

    So while my system is sized and designed for ~60 ah/day (720 wh) it can do that in ~4 hours. In reality, we generally draw down only about 30 ah (360wh) between the time the sun goes off the panels and when they start charging. It has always been a bit hard to calculate what our "true" usage is, since the ah used while the charge controller is net positive don't record on the Tri-metric. I am guessing that we do use about 60 ah/ 720 wh day. We also don't charge the lap tops on grey days, nor the other battery items. If the lap tops get too low, we use the spare batteries until we either have to charge from the genny (which is almost never) or we get full sun.

    So the long and short of it is pretty simple. Load shifting can (and does) have a significant impact on our use of our system. I would guess that the total power output is ~50% greater by doing so.

    Tony
  • rickeolis
    rickeolis Solar Expert Posts: 110 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Woohoo! :) I just received my new Bogart Trimetric 2020 meter. I installed it today and tested it out.
    I have yet to figure out what to look for and how to program it, but I just got it all installed, so the next couple of days will be spent learning the in's and out's of it.
    Hopefully this will show me what is going on with my energy and batteries...

    -Rick-
  • rickeolis
    rickeolis Solar Expert Posts: 110 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Not yet off-grid: Why?

    Interesting...
    It does appear that I am not pumping in near enough power as I'm using in the house. This guage shows the positive and negative amps on the fly, and I rarely see a positive.
    It turns out that our new big screen TV and gaming station are on a LOT more often than I had realized and they are the main reasons for this.
    I would not have known the cause without the Trimetric. I produce a lot of power during the day when the sun's out, but it seems like the amount of power in the battery banks dies off very quickly at night. Now I know that I am using most of the power I'm making and not sending enough into the batteries.
    So, at this point it looks like I can try and use the TV less (yeah right, with 4 kids?!?!?) or get more panels soon and possibly use tracking with all of the panels.

    -Rick-