new at this

hi I am new at this and have nothing. Looking to save some money on the energy bill any thought would be welcome

live in winnipeg cold:confused:

Comments

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: new at this

    conservation is number one. cut back on utility usages, insulate if you can, and use energy saving appliances. a kill-a-watt meter may help you with the electric usage by showing you what something may draw both realtime and over a stretch of time in watt hours.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: new at this

    Solar Thermal Hot water, while complicated in cold climates, can give you a big boost in heating. While PV is only about 15% efficient, solar hot water is closer to 30%, less panels to install, and insulation and conservation are still your friends.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: new at this

    this is what I was thinking to star off with. Black hose feeding into the hot water heater form the roof to take advantage of thermal exchange, this would have to be drained and shut down in the winter, Part 2 some sort of solar sys to run some lights and a diverter to a shunt power to a secondary water heater that would heat preheat water going into the regular heater. I will expand if thing go well and resources are available. By the way those resources are slim.:blush:

    A little about me
    I live in Winnipeg not sure why
    have wife and 5 kids yes I said 5
    on grid power and renting so anything I do I will have to undo
    system will be a secondary system e.g. separate light system will expand to other appliances and or plugs to run small things hopefully. This sys will not be attached to the existing grid
    landlord doesn't not care what I do and has given me free reign
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: new at this

    Conservation, conservation, conservation (ongoing joke here)...

    Get a Kill-a-Watt meter and start measuring your appliance power usage... And estimate/measure your power usage by other large loads (typically electric hot water, electric heat, A/C, electric cook top/oven).

    In your area--you may have pretty cheap electric rates ($0.10 per kWhr or less--compared to California which my peak rates range from $0.30 to $0.60 per kWhr).

    Watch "24 hour loads"... Those can be real killers... The desktop computer, network, printer, USB drives, etc. that everyone leaves on can take 200-300 watts...

    24 hours * 0.3 kW * 30 days per month * $0.10 per kWH = $21.60 per month

    That 1.5 kW microwave running 15 minutes per day (heat food, coffee, etc)

    0.25 hours per day * 1.5 kW * 30 days per month * $0.10 per kWH = $1.13 per month

    And be practical... If you have electric heat in Winnipeg--you may be using 2,000 kWhrs per month (hey--that is a SWAG from "sunny" California). Don't drive the family nuts having them unplug their cell phone chargers when they are not charging.

    I would go down the conservation route as much as I can justify (new laptop computer that uses 1/10'th the power is yours; changing the electric cook top to propane or installing a new non-jet type well pump is not).

    If you plan to live there for years, and the landlord is OK with putting in some cash while you do the work--look at your insulation. Double Pane Vinyl Windows with Low E glass, adding attic insulation, stopping breezes from sweeping under the crawl space, insulating hot water pipes, blanket around hot water heater, low flow shower heads, etc.... Are all pretty cheap and if you supply the labor--will not be out of pocket for you and you end up with a nicer place to live with fewer drafts/cold spots and a lower power bill.

    Obviously--I am from California where 50F is a cold day--so my suggestions may not make sense in your area (standard building practices)--For me, my houses had zero insulation, and 50-80 year old single pane would windows. Got terribly hot during summer, and cold+drafty in the winter.

    From my little experience, Attic Insulation and Double Pane Vinyl or Wood Windows made a huge difference in a home that started out with zero insulation.

    Once you have done the Conservation thing--typically solar thermal is the next best bang for the buck.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: new at this

    electric bill for 960 kW.h over 27 days


    Basic Charge / $ 6.85
    Energy Charge / 900.000 kW.h x $0.06250 = $56.25
    60.000 x 0.06300 =$3.78
    Subtotal / 66.88
    2.50% City Tax / . 1.68
    7.00% Prov Tax / . 4.68
    5.00% GST / TPS 3.34
    Electricity charges / $76.5


    Naturel gas 125.920m3 for $63.81
    The water heater is killing me Gas heater not likely to change
    I will be looking to put appliences on power bars so they can easly turn off





    elect kW.h for 12 months 13870
    Naturel gas for 12 months 3654481 m3


    insulation has been done. windows not likely to happen pipes have been done along with at attic the hose on top of the roof was going to be the solar thermal project combines with some pannels

    As for driving my family nuts especially the older kids, I have to have some fun. Something to give me reason to get up in the morning, diving them nuts is as good as any.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    q

    Looks pretty reasonable... And you are in that special place where it is cheaper for you to "burn" electricity than to spend money to ultra conserve or install PV Panels. :roll:

    I don't know how much of your bill is heat, cooking or hot water for natural gas--but that is one place that Low Flow Shower Head can really help (assuming, like my two kids--it takes explosives to get them out of a hot shower). Can save 1/2 or more of your hot water costs.

    I am not convinced that a tankless hot water heater would save you very much money--Others here have said to expect an ~20% reduction in gas usage. Just not worth the tankless costs and hassles for a home with natural gas and heavy hot water usage (the tankless saves costs with light usage--From what I have seen, the actual heating efficiency from cold to hot water is about 80% for standard tank and tankless water heaters.

    Interestingly, your natural gas price is roughly the same as ours... For our family of 4, we run around $20-$25 per month in summer for natural gas (probably mostly hot water) and close to $65 per month in winter (central heat--but our could days are 30-50F or so)...

    The electric usage is around US average -- depends what the electricity is running that is costing so much (electric heat, cooking, computers and TV's, engine block heaters or what) (summer vs winter loads, etc.).

    We are pretty cheap and can get down to ~200-250 kWhrs per month (central heat, no A/C, fridge + freezer in shed, laptops mostly, CFL's--the ugly light, put in skylights for natural light and ventilation; natural gas powers the rest of the heat sources). Our seasons are pretty mild (near cool ocean, behind hills so little marine layer/fog).

    In the end, you have measure/estimate your consumption for the various usages and see what you can do to conserve.

    You might look at a T.E.D. or equivalent. Basically the whole house version of the Kill-A-Watt meter. You can turn on specific large loads (electric cook top, other 240 VAC appliances) and see what they really draw.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • gweedo
    gweedo Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    Re: new at this

    We did solar hot water heater at our house in Central Florida and have enough hot water for 3 of us without any electrical assistance.

    Looked in the tankless, like Bill mentioned, and the efficiency wasn't there. Same problem as before: heating water with electricity is just plain inefficient.

    That's the only constructive thing I can offer.

    We had Schuco Slim Line II 80 Gallon system installed. Pretty impressed with its efficiency.
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: new at this

    thanks for the input looking in to solar heater for the summer as a project