outback FM 80 MPPT question

mshen11
mshen11 Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭✭
in the manual there is a section on aux control - and there are about 6 or 8 functionalities associated with it like light, vent fan, float, low battery disconnect.

i dont quite understand what these are? can you attach fans to perform vent fan, extra device to divert power when its doing float? if so... how? what does the telephone jack have to do w/ te functionality?

Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    The Auxiliary function is a programmable output. When the programmed criterion is met, the Aux output "goes high" - i.e. is energized with 12 VDC (@ 200 ma I think). This can be used to trigger a relay which controls devices such as vent fans, diversion loads, or low voltage cut-out (depending on how it is programmed).

    For instance you could have it set to turn on when the batteries reach "Float", and have that activate a diversion load. Or have it run on when Absorb is reached and have it turn on a small fan for venting the battery compartment.

    As for the "telephone jack" ... There's two sockets that might look like that; one is the input for the remote battery temperature sensor, the other is the connection for communicating with other Outback equipment via the "Hub". This last feature allows connecting up to ten different OB inverters &/or controllers to be programmed and monitored via a "MATE" unit. It also allows them to "talk to each other" so that all agree on things like real battery voltage and set times for charging, et cetera.
  • mshen11
    mshen11 Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    thanks for the reply but still hazy

    first it says it can do only 1 type of condition but you can program all of them in. how do you select which condition you want the cc to actively focus on (i missed it)?

    also when the condition is met, the aux output goes high. what do you attach to the aux output to react to it - are there accessories out there? ie - so do you need to buy a special fan that goes in the aux slot to program the vent fan? do you need to buy a special [help me out here?] to activate any misc device you want (diversion load)?

    for the battery sensor telephone jack... i have a prosine battery sensor (which can also go in the linkpro battery monitor slot) - it has a telephone jack termination. can i use this for the outback cc? also - where is the best place to place the battery sensor - at the prosine inverter? outback cc? xantrex linkpro?
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    You can program any of them in, not all. You can only select one state for the output to turn on. The choice is yours.

    The Aux output's current level isn't very high. To accomplish most tasks you need to attach a relay: 12 VDC @ 200 ma maximum. Don't ask me where to find one; this is Canada and we don't have the same stores. I'd go to an electronics outlet like SMI, but I doubt you have that particular store there. Still have Radio Shack? We don't.

    Do not use a non-Outback battery temp sensor. In fact, for any system always use the BTS that was made for it: they can have different resistance/response from brand to brand and will not produce accurate readings if connected to the wrong type of controller. The Battery Temperature Sensor sticks on the side of the battery, to tell the charge controller what temp the battery is at so that proper Voltage compensation can be made.

    Be sure and look at these Outback connections/accessories, they're essential for an OB system:

    http://store.solar-electric.com/oucopr.html
  • mshen11
    mshen11 Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    [The Aux output's current level isn't very high. To accomplish most tasks you need to attach a relay: 12 VDC @ 200 ma maximum. Don't ask me where to find one; this is Canada and we don't have the same stores. I'd go to an electronics outlet like SMI, but I doubt you have that particular store there. Still have Radio Shack? We don't.]

    forgive me for being unimaginative or dense... about the aux output. what can one do??? can you give a detailed example. let say i want to charge a peice of equipment (turn on lights, turn on fan, start charging extra set of spare battery, ...) once it is in float mode. how would i do that? let say to turn on a desk lamp
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    When the Aux output "goes high" it puts out 12 VDC @ 200 ma maximum. This can turn on a relay. A relay is an electro-magnetic switch; it's contacts can carry considerably more Voltage and/or current than the Aux output could handle. That relay can turn on your lamp, fan, whatever.

    I wish there was an easy way to draw and post at least simple circuits on here. It might be very valuable for explaining things, as schematics are often much easier to understand than a rambling old man!
  • mshen11
    mshen11 Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    but where is the voltage coming from?

    ok let say i want to power the lamp i have in my garage.
    what do i have to buy to hook the lamp up to the charge controller? and how do i hook it up? the lamp doesnt have any extra jacks to accept a wire

    *confused*
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question
    mshen11 wrote: »
    but where is the voltage coming from?

    ok let say i want to power the lamp i have in my garage.
    what do i have to buy to hook the lamp up to the charge controller? and how do i hook it up? the lamp doesnt have any extra jacks to accept a wire

    *confused*

    The 12 VDC that powers the relay when Aux is on comes from the FM80.

    The power for whatever device you're switching on with the relay comes from whatever power source it needs: could be directly from your battery bank or AC from the inverter.

    The following may only confuse you more, but I'm going to try to draw a 'block diagram' sort of schematic:

    AUX OUT (+)--> Relay coil (1)
    AUX OUT (-) --> Relay coil (2)

    AC (1) --> Relay common
    AC (2) --> AC Lamp (2)

    Relay NC --> Not connected
    Relay NO --> AC Lamp (1)

    Where (1) or (2) indicates one side or the other of interchangeable connections (the two terminals of the relay coil, the two sides of the lamp).
    AC = 120 VAC, and AC Lamp = a light that runs on 120 VAC.
    Relay common = the connection on the relay's switch that connects with either of the other two connectors, depending on the relay's state.
    Relay NC = "Normally Closed" - the contact that is connected with Relay common when the relay's coil is not energized.
    Relay NO = "Normally Open" - the contact that is not connected with Relay common until the coil is energized.
  • blackswan555
    blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    A relay is basically an electrically operated switch, You can use low voltages and currents to switch larger loads,
    In this case the 12v (max 200ma) that the FM will output from the aux when the parameters you set are met,
    This is then used to energize the relay coil, "throwing the switch"

    Practical example,

    Aux out of FM go`s to relay coil, Relay contacts are in the + line from the breaker to a vent fan, FM is programed to turn vent fan on @ absorb voltage, So absorb is reached, FM gives 12v which switches the relay, relay contacts close, Fan runs

    Have a good one
    Tim

    ps you can use most "Bosch" type automotive relays for low voltage, normally used for spotlights etc ( non diode type) You should use a proper mains voltage spec`d one for higher voltage,
  • Wilis
    Wilis Solar Expert Posts: 84 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    I use the aux for the vent fan. I have found several fans in old computer power supplies that are rated at 200ma-12vcd. People will give you old old computers just to get they out of their way. That is like old 286 or 386's. I just hook one of the fans up direct. My battery box is in the basement so I have a pipe from outside bringing in fresh air. I build a wooden box that the pipe goes into and then more pipe into the box. The fan fits in the box and I have sealed all sides with calk. I have set the aux to come on at 28.8 v in my 24v system. It keeps positive air flow. I do have another pipe at the high place in my box the goes back out. Tab through the screen under aux on your FM80 and you will find where to program it.
  • mshen11
    mshen11 Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    [Aux out of FM go`s to relay coil, Relay contacts are in the + line from the breaker to a vent fan, FM is programed to turn vent fan on @ absorb voltage, So absorb is reached, FM gives 12v which switches the relay, relay contacts close, Fan runs
    ]

    ah i got it!
    but then let say we are talking about vent fan... so little power is going through the aux output to the relay... what is powering the fan?
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question
    mshen11 wrote: »
    [Aux out of FM go`s to relay coil, Relay contacts are in the + line from the breaker to a vent fan, FM is programed to turn vent fan on @ absorb voltage, So absorb is reached, FM gives 12v which switches the relay, relay contacts close, Fan runs
    ]

    ah i got it!
    but then let say we are talking about vent fan... so little power is going through the aux output to the relay... what is powering the fan?

    Whatever power source the vent fan requires. If it is a 12 VDC fan, then 12 VDC (+) from battery is wired through the relay contacts to the fan and back to the battery (-). If it's 120 VAC, you need to take power from the inverter output through the relay contacts to the fan and back to the inverter.
  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    the Zephyr battery vent fans will run right off the outback aux relay. I have been running mine this way for years. the new XW charge controller wont run it though it says aux overload.
  • mshen11
    mshen11 Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    more questions on aux later - for now i understand its purpose.

    new question: at night in the garage w/ 2 CFL running and no panels attached (but healthy battery bank)... the outback is saying input: 0A, 9V.

    obviously not true. should i be concerned or should i wait a few weeks after my panels are hooked up to be concerned. why is it misreading w/ no panel - should be 0V.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    You may need to check with Outback directly on this question... There have been reports in the past about FM XX models reporting non-zero volts and amps in the dark (may be same problem or not).

    I don't know if the problem has been addressed with a firmware update or not (I am not connected with any vendors).

    In itself--the 9 volts may be some leakage current in the digital volt meter's input... And as long as the FM does nothing--there should be no problem.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • halfcrazy
    halfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 720 ✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question

    the outback controllers will show input voltage that is normal. it will be lower then battery voltage if it isnt then there is an issue. the big thing is to make sure it says resting or sleeping. the issue with the fm series is they tend to stay awake and show 30 or so watts all night but for the original question it is normal to see an input voltage all the time
  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: outback FM 80 MPPT question
    new question: at night in the garage w/ 2 CFL running and no panels attached (but healthy battery bank)... the outback is saying input: 0A, 9V.

    obviously not true. should i be concerned or should i wait a few weeks after my panels are hooked up to be concerned. why is it misreading w/ no panel - should be 0V.
    There's a resistor inside the charge controller that precharges the PV input capacitors. It's normal and expected for the PV input voltage display value to reach near the battery voltage when the array is disconnected.

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer