As Basic As it Gets ?

Mick-UK
Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
I first joined this forum whilst we were touring Canada trying to find a supplier and installer for a solar system to our RV.

Well we have been in Florida since Oct 08 and stiil have yet to purchase a system.

I would be very interested in hearing the forum members on the Sun Seekers Solar system that follows the sun as opposed to fixed panels.

Also a chap who know a hell of a lot more than I on solar panels has advised me I need the mono-crystalline type of panel for UK or Europe use and NOT the poly-crystalline which would be fine for southern US use.

However since being told this I have now seen a multi-crystalline panel advertised and wonder just how many types of solar panel are there?

Also which type will be the best for our use when we return back to the UK?

Thanks.
Mick

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: As Basic As it Gets ?

    Ah... Forget the "solar stuff"... How are you guys enjoying your North American Trip!? I want to do something like that this year before our kids get too old!

    Quickly regarding your other questions:

    With the current price of solar panels, many times it is cheaper to simply purchase more solar panels and use a fixed mount vs buying fewer solar panels and using a 1 or 2 axis tracker.

    Trackers tend to require quite a bit of maintenance (tracking motors fail, wind damage, ancillary support electronics, tracking sensors, batteries, freon cylinders, etc. all require keeping an eye on and/or replacing every few years--such as those that require a battery). Also, include the costs for (usually) a very substantial hole in the ground filled with concrete to support the tracker.

    My two cents... cost out the two systems for equal power output (using the PV Watts program, or similar) and see what gives you the cheapest $/kWhr pricing.

    If you are a do-it-yourself'er, some folks have converted C Band satellite antennas into trackers. Or, you can split the difference and build a fixed array mount where you can adjust the tilt by ~30 degrees between winter and summer months.

    Lastly, where will you mount the panels/arrays... A fixed array on a 2nd story roof may get more sun and fewer thieves (somewhat of an issue here--also after copper).

    No "correct answer. Personally, in the US, with the price of panels--I would prefer the "zero" maintenance requirements for a fixed mount vs that of a tracker.

    3 or 4 years ago, I went to a "solar store" near us and looked at the three or four trackers they had installed on the property. None of them where pointing at the sun, and a couple had the linear actuator (electric motor assembly), just hanging down by one bolt. If they could not be bothered with keeping the things running--I was not going to even bother with one.

    Lastly, for all intents and purposes, mono and poly crystalline panels have identical performance (that I am aware of) and the only difference is that mono-crystalline panels are slightly more efficient (watts per sq.meter.) and have a nice uniform "black" look (vs the bluish "shattered glass" look of poly-crystalline panels).

    If you have a space limitation (small roof, area in full sun), perhaps a mono-crystalline panel set may squeeze out a few more watts--Or if you have a local planning board the preferes the look of mono-crystalline panels.

    Otherwise, just pick good vendors (quality near enough to provide support) and purchase on a $$ per watt (sorry, don't have a Pound/Euro symbol handy ;) ) delivered (shipping costs are not cheap--so delivery charges are important).

    Anyway, my 2 cents worth of advice.

    Back "home", have you decided on Grid Tied or an off-grid system?

    Hope you are enjoying your travels!

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Ecnerwal
    Ecnerwal Solar Expert Posts: 101 ✭✭
    Re: As Basic As it Gets ?

    I believe Mick is looking for panels for the RV. And in that case I certainly would not go for a tracker - but due to inherent space constraints, mono-crystalline would be better, probably - unless the flexible and impact resistant nature of Unisolar panels would actually suit the application better (more costly, though).
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: As Basic As it Gets ?

    The only source I could find for Sun Seekers was "outdoor-solutions.info" -- but that URL comes back as "account suspended" at this time.

    From the Cache of that URL--The description was not very good--and the promises were "over the top" (power virtually anything you want with just 270 watts of solar panels and almost never need your generator)--I would not take anything they say as gospel.

    If this was for an RV based tracking mount--may be worth looking at as you can get more energy from a small amount of panels... But, I would look at the mechanical/tracking hardware very closely.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: As Basic As it Gets ?

    hello again mick and i hope your trip is going well with lots of enjoyment.
    i too would say no to a tracker, especially for use on an rv.
    there are a few types of pv out there and most will do fine for you. the amorphous type like that from unisolar will not deliver very much power per meter^2 even though it is a rugged pv and nearly unbreakable. you would need almost twice the area in unisolar pvs as opposed to the other types. the mono and poly crystal types you are already aware of and sanyo has a hybrid of amorphous and crystaline, but there is another that is different and that would be the evergreen string technology type. these are also available in fully functional blems at a much reduced price from a florida vender called sun electronics. maybe solar guppy would be kind enough to add any knowledge of how the string technology fits into the scheme of things, but those pvs do work well from feedback i've heard. maybe he will be able to also advise you who in florida could do your install.
  • Ecnerwal
    Ecnerwal Solar Expert Posts: 101 ✭✭
    Re: As Basic As it Gets ?

    AFAIK, string ribbon is just a method - the product is polycrystalline solar cell, the growth method is different and reduces processing waste (much less cutting) than the "other way" (grow a big fat crystal and slice it up).
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: As Basic As it Gets ?

    that answered that. i don't think you will actually see much of a difference between poly and mono crystalline though and they still sell them by wattage in that 100w of poly is equal to 100w of mono or amorphous for that matter. it's all in the efficiency that you are looking at so you can generate the most in the smallest area of pv which leaves amorphous out of the question.
  • Mick-UK
    Mick-UK Registered Users Posts: 19
    Re: As Basic As it Gets ?

    BB,Bill

    Our 'tour' has become a little stagnant in Florida as we have just had a two week visit from our eldest son, his fiance and our grand daughter (6 months) ahhhhhhhhh

    Our current visa expires in April and we will apply for a further 6 months to Oct then ship home.

    So we are now trying to decide where next as well as get the solar system installed.
    The only source I could find for Sun Seekers was "outdoor-solutions.info" -- but that URL comes back as "account suspended" at this time.

    From the Cache of that URL--The description was not very good--and the promises were "over the top" (power virtually anything you want with just 270 watts of solar panels and almost never need your generator)--I would not take anything they say as gospel.

    Bill,

    You were bang on finding the Sun Seeker system at Outdoor Solutions and as you point out there URL is currently suspended.

    To the likes of myself who know very little regarding solar power their out put details of the Sun Seeker sound very impressive, but then always facing the sun it should perform better than similar sized panels flat on a roof for reasons even obvious to the likes of me.

    My biggest concerns however would be with the mechanical validity of the system which the members on this forum quickly point out to me.

    Neil,

    Sorry,:blush: but after reading your post I'm even more confused.

    A very recent source of information, ( a British friend of a friend ) tells me the best pv ( I presume pv means solar panel? See I know nothing LOL) panel for my use in the UK (when we return) is the mono-crystaline and NOT the poly- crystaline panels.

    Then on reading several dealers web sites trying to see who sells mono- crystaline panels I see another type of panel called a multi- crystaline panel mentioned then you add to my confusion by adding amorphous type,evergreen string :confused:

    Please please guys take off your solar wizard professor hats and put on a school boy cap when replying

    I am trying to learn about solar power but at 56 my brain appears to have shut down:blush:

    I am off the Sun Seeker system and back to the type installed flat or tilting on the RV roof, the pv will be installed either by the supplier or professionally NOT by yours truly.

    All I'm trying to establish is a little simple knowledge of the right type of pv for use in good old England.

    Thanks Guys.........Be gentle:-)
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: As Basic As it Gets ?

    Mick,

    With the price of fuel "tanking"... Now is the time to "see the USA" (old Chevrolet theme/music--Famous 1952 Chevrolet ad starring Dinah Shore in youtube link above).

    Mono vs Poly (multi?) Crystalline panels, from good vendors, are all good.

    Mono-Crystalline are slightly more efficient, so you will get more "Watts" / Power out the same area.

    Buy on price and what fits.

    If you have the space--try to find tilt-up mounts so you can tilt the panels at the noon sun (assuming you can find a good rack and can get access to physically tilt the panels). This would be a very good start.

    You can use the PV Calculator Site to compare flat, tilted, 1 and 2 axis tracking. Use a derating factor of 0.52 (off grid with battery bank--basically efficiency). 1 kW is the minimum number you can use for the panel size--just multiply the results by 0.xxx kWatts for your smaller system (i.e., 255 watts of solar panels, time 0.255 the "1 kW" panel size in the program).

    PV Panels = Photo Voltaic Panels ("light" powered "battery" panel).

    The Evergreen panels are (if I understand correctly) just Poly-Crystalline panels... The difference is the way the silicon crystals are "grown"... Save's material waste during processing ("ribbon" is already flat--no need to cut like slicing a sausage). Should not change the properties of the solar cells--just a way of (potentially) cutting manufacturing costs.

    Regarding making "major" purchases--you might have problems with any warranty adjustments with parts/panels purchased in the US (as I am sure you know).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: As Basic As it Gets ?

    sorry for any confusion as i thought i was summing it up well. my point was that it doesn't go by the type so much as it goes by the wattage and the efficiency at which it is produced. a 100w pv, yes solar panel, no matter the composition will only produce 100w of power. so you are thinking that there has to be something else going on here and there is. one pv may produce that 100w in less space than another and this varies even within the same type of pv. a more efficient pv will produce that 100w with smaller dimensions for the pv. you can go ahead and buy the monocrystaline pv if you like, but it won't be any different powerwise than any other 100w pv. a 100w mono crystalline pv is the same power as a 100w poly or multi crystalline pv. if you want more efficiency then you go see what that rating is for each pv regardless of type. more efficiency generally commands a higher price per watt and may be so many square centimeters smaller than another pv producing the same power. a more efficient poly may be better than some mono pvs and visa versa.
    btw, the sun will not be different in england with only variations for intensity or the number of hours out for various locations, even within a country. i may see more sun than parts of england, but the same pvs can be used there as here or anywhere else.
    does this help clarify it better for you? i hope so. it won't matter if you follow your buddy's advice or not as you will be producing the power you paid for, with the limitations of solar exposure applied for any of them.