Can I link a Honda eu2000 and a 2000 watt inverter

EW1234EW1234 Posts: 1Registered Users
Have a 15000 btu air conditioner and want to run with my Honda eu2000. Can I use the link for the two generators that Honda sells, one with the generator and the other on the inverter?

Comments

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Can I link a Honda eu2000 and a 2000 watt inverter

    Welcome to the forum.

    Sorry to say the answer is "no" or perhaps "not without a lot of trouble and high probability of fireworks". The simple fact is neither of these were designed to work together in this way.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,689Super Moderators admin
    Re: Can I link a Honda eu2000 and a 2000 watt inverter

    The short answer is no. Placing to AC power sources in parallel which are not designed to be paralleled will usually let out the magic smoke somewhere.

    The longer answer is, it is possible it could work--but I doubt it will... The Honda eu2000i does current sharing by (I am guessing) "droop" sharing. The first device is the master (sets frequency) and the second generator becomes the slave (just follows the frequency of the "master"). With droop sharing, the generator may do something like this: If AC line is at 120 VAC, output 0% of rated current. if AC line is at 115 volts, output 50% of rated current. If AC voltage is 110 volts, then output 100% of rated current... That way, each genset carries about 1/2 the load current. If it did not do droop sharing (and there are no control lines between the gensets), one generator may output 100% at 118 volts, and the other set to 115 volts outputs no additional current.

    Note the above is guess work and is just there to explain how it could work.

    If you had a TSW (true sine wave) Inverter, and started the inverter first, then the generator, it may not blow up... However, if the inverter is not set for droop sharing, it will not carry 1/2 the power of the common line... It may carry none, 100% or even the generator could back drive the TSW inverter and actually begin charging the battery bank (and tripping generator/inverter safety devices).

    So--I would strongly warn against doing the interconnect (and if the inverter is MSW type, don't even try). The chances that it would work well are low--And you run the risk of damaging your equipment or even, possibly, starting a fire.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Posts: 3,009Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can I link a Honda eu2000 and a 2000 watt inverter

    If it were possible to get the two sources in perfect AC sync before and after they were tied together, it would work, but unfortunately as others have said, these units were not designed to do that. Thus any attempt to join them will surely result in disaster. Your best bet is either a manual, or automatic transfer switch which opens one of the supply sources before connecting the other. I've seen inverters destroyed after they were accidentally left in circuit when the generator was activated. :cry:
  • john pjohn p Posts: 814Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: Can I link a Honda eu2000 and a 2000 watt inverter

    THIS IS A DEFINATE NO TO EVEN TRY.
    Generators tend to "wander" a bit around the set frequency,wspecially if suddenly going from no load to above half load. No generator can change its speed instantly.
    Many inverters do not have exact correct output frequency.

    So you end up with a inverter mabe 61hz a generator 59hz and not stable.. Result = disaster

    I see all have given similar replies.
  • vtmapsvtmaps Posts: 3,738Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can I link a Honda eu2000 and a 2000 watt inverter
    john p wrote: »
    Generators tend to "wander" a bit around the set frequency, especially if suddenly going from no load to above half load. No generator can change its speed instantly.
    Many inverters do not have exact correct output frequency.

    So you end up with a inverter mabe 61hz a generator 59hz and not stable.

    John P, I agree with your conclusion (don't do it), but I think you are right for the wrong reason. The Honda eu2000 is an inverter generator. Its output is entirely synthetic and the generator speed does not affect the output frequency.

    As the OP says, Honda sells a 'link' to hook up two eu2000s and parallel their output. One becomes master and the other slave. You are, in effect, hooking up two inverters. I have no idea what the 'link' is or how it works.

    vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • john pjohn p Posts: 814Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: Can I link a Honda eu2000 and a 2000 watt inverter

    ok im part wrong ,but not really wrong as with any inverters there has to be a connecion to the input of the output to sync the frequency. There is no way you are ever going to find that point on another inverter to lock it to the generators inverter frequency.
    This can only be done SUCCESSFULLY if they are from the same manufacturer and of the same type.

    IF you have some inverters to spare you can experiment with it until you get it to work.
    I eventually got a grid tie inverter to lock into a battery inverter pretending to be the grid.
    But I got through 3 x1500 w grid tie inverters and 4 x2kw battery inverters..
    The problems are different models from even same manufacturers use different topologies and different frequencies to convert down to 60 or 50 hz..
    Another problem is temperature differences can make small but significant differences to output frequency,then they drift apart and .boom. unless specifically designed to be master and slave.

    Have fun if you want to give it a go. BUT BE PREPARED FOR DISASTER.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Can I link a Honda eu2000 and a 2000 watt inverter

    You'd be hooking up two inverters that are not designed to be "stacked".

    If you connect the EU to an ordinary battery-based inverter the output wave forms stand almost no chance of ever being in sync. Neither generators nor inverters have 100% exact-on frequency; they always have a +/- factor. Even if they were both precisely 60 Hz they inevitably would be out of phase with each other. There is nothing to keep them in-line.

    If you connect the EU to a standard GT inverter it will sync to the generator's output. But it will need someplace to send all its power. If there's not sufficient load to take it, the power will back-feed the gen and fry it.

    The EU's are meant to sync with another of their kind because in essence the inverters they contain are stackable and both have identical circuitry to regulate output. They're designed to work together the same as a pair of Outback VFX's can. But taking one EU and one inverter, even a stackable one, is not the same thing as they aren't designed to adjust their output according to what the other is supplying.

    The most likely outcomes are: 1). instant fireworks; 2). it works briefly then fires; 3). it works for a while then fries; 4). it works long enough to fool you it's working, then fries. The odds of it working long enough to be considered functional without damaging equipment are so miniscule that they fall into the "not in this universe" category.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Posts: 3,009Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Can I link a Honda eu2000 and a 2000 watt inverter

    Even if by some strange accident the two are in perfect sync when the switch is initially closed, within a second at most they will be 180 out of sync and the smoke will pour forth. Have your camera ready, the photos will be very interesting.
  • raphidaeraphidae Posts: 1Registered Users
    edited July 24 #10
    This is an old thread, but I figured I'd leave my experience for those searching for this later (as a friend of mine did find this via Google while searching for it).

    After some research I have tried connecting a generator/inverter to different AC sources. Mostly I tried with a Kipor IG2600, but those have a similar, if not exactly the same, sync circuit as the Honda EU2000. I also have a bunch of Honda generator/inverters, both EU2000's and  EU22i's (which superseded the EU2000) and have also connected Hondas and Kipors together with no problems.

    The parallel kit from Honda (or Kipor) is nothing more than paralleling the outputs of two generator/inverters. The banana plugs present for the parallel kit are connected directly parallel to one of the plug outputs of the generator/inverter (See the wiring diagram available from Honda. Though, do note that the banana plugs are paralleled with the AC output BEFORE the breaker!).

    So it's actually possible to just take two male mains plugs and connect them in parallel to a single female socket. The official kits do the same thing, but add a breaker and use the banana plugs (mainly so there's not a hot mains plug laying on the ground if one is accidentally pulled, since the banana plugs have a shield). The "signal" being sent between the paralleled generator/inverters is nothing more than the frequency of the voltage provided which obviously is transmitted over the power lines.

    The "Master/Slave" sync configuration is not complex. The first generator/inverter you turn on, if it does not detect an already present voltage/waveform in the first few seconds, it will just completely turn off its sync circuit and will simply try to keep 50Hz (or 60Hz in the US) on its own. This is the "Master" mode.

    If, however, it *does* detect a voltage/waveform in the first few seconds, it will try to follow the present waveform the best it can. The source of this waveform doesn't matter, and it won't try to correct the frequency or anything, it will just try to follow what's already present. And if it wanders too much (outside the range it will sync to, <45Hz or >65Hz) it will simply decouple from the source until you turn it off and on again. This is the "Slave" mode.

    This is also why you can safely parallel almost infinite generator/inverters (I've used up to 10 in parallel, 6 being Kipor 4 being Honda) with zero problems. The first one (turned on first) will determine the frequency, and any other generator parallelled to it (turned on later) will sync with it. Should the "Master" be turned off, trip or otherwise be disconnected, one of the other ones will turn its sync circuit off and become "Master". This happens automatically.

    Anyway, the Honda/Kipor generator/inverters will sync to anything resembling a sine wave between 45 and 65 Hz. I have had no problems connecting one to mains (power grid) as stand-by (when expecting brown- or black-outs). In this use-case it will just run in low rpm mode if eco mode is on, and rev up when the grid fails. If the grid is completely dead, the generator/inverter will switch its sync circuit off for "Master" mode after a minute or so. When the grid returns it will detect that the grid is not syncing to it and switches its sync circuit back on (goes back to "Slave" mode). The larger the phase shift when the grid comes back on, the faster the generator/inverter will decide it will have to sync, as it is not being synced to.

    I have had no problems either connecting the Honda/Kipor generator/inverters in parallel to a proper 12VDC to 230VAC (non-syncing) sine wave inverter in my RV, and this has also worked fine with el-cheapo inverters outputting a sawtooth or even a square waveform (Note: The resulting waveform will resemble an average of the two when the load is 50/50. If the load isn't shared 50/50, the resulting waveform will resemble more of one or the other depending on the ratio of load sharing). Besides that, paralleling to a standard diesel generator (non-inverter) with wandering frequency also works fine. The generator/inverter will happily wander along with it.

    So simply put, the Honda and Kipor (and other generator/inverters designed for parallel operation) will sync to any AC source they are connected to. And they are protected against problems that would let the magic smoke out; if for some reason it can't keep the sync, it will automatically decouple. So you can safely parallel one (or more) of these generator/inverters to any AC source of roughly the same voltage.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,689Super Moderators admin
    Raphidae,

    Interesting information... I am not sure that I would suggest people do the "sharing" as a matter of course--But from what you describe... It does sound like something that does work.

    Thank you,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • jonrjonr Posts: 1,032Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25 #12
    Be cautious about pairing a Honda "i" generator with some other inverter that isn't so smart.    Turn-on sequence matters and I can imagine cases where a non-smart inverter turns itself off and then automatically (or manually) comes back on.   Not clear that the inverter would survive this.  Would be nice if there were inverters known/designed to work safely with a Honda under all scenarios.


    Would be interesting to know more about how the Honda determines how much load to take (might not be the mix you want).  Probably some voltage thresholds.
  • rovrov Posts: 1Registered Users
    Thank you raphidae ,I thought the same thing , there is no sure way of knowing unless you try it , Honda inverters have decently build self protection circuitry, the problem I see is when gas runs out on the gen side and the paralleled battery powered inverter is still on , how is the offline Honda going to react with that?
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